I switched a thruster and the spotlight. I hope the spotlight isn't wrong. On the topic of Rucky's ship, IMO 1) Since this isn't exactly a competition with prizes to win and what not, I say we allow Rucky to proceed with his ship but the OP should have a statement e.g "Have a Thruster configuration that doesn't redline on Omicron" so that new people would be able to see it and clearly understand. 2) On the other hand, people who have already completed their ship and submitted are free to pull theirs and modify them. Though it is a little unfair especially if the entire ship's concept was built around having the limited thrusters, they may have to build a whole other CV. I myself have almost completed my CV and actually going to have 2 versions where one is a starter strictly complying to the challenge and another is a pimped out version where it doesn't comply to certain requirements (E.g: upgraded to combat steel, weighing above 6ktons and having 2 generators to support more thrusters). So whatever decided is fine with me. Having said the above, I guess a poll would be good to have an affirmation.
Here's a similar thing, the rules are not exact. Do you have to move the turret or the thrusters? As far as we know atm, the burn damage will be only 1 block (like for some other devices already implemented) and for visual there should be more venting possible, that doesn't need to be directly in front though. That would mean, that ship would have met the criterias already, without any changes needed! But that's not specified here, and the Challenge Creator wants the burn damage be longer, as he did not allowed it. But how long needs it to be? Again, does it really needs to be such strict?? And that's the problem, you did go into the CP, as you SHOULD NOT DO. Even the Challenge suggest you should do anything only manual that is without ever going into the CP. So you are bending the rule intention too, so why are you allowed that when others are not? You are activly sabotaging that vessel. That's like someone complaining the car's coloring isn't consistent after actively crashing into some trees and halfing the vessel... He didn't have to do that, but he could... nah... really... And yes, there is a Thruster ON/OFF Switch you have on the Bridge for manual interaction!
I'm not bending any intention. There are no rules in the challenge that prevent P menu use for thrusters, or lights, or ramps or any other function. Rules state that at least one Fuel tank, the Ammo bins and at least one O2 tank must be done physically and not through the menu, nothing else is mentioned.
yes sure, that's how you interpret it. but that's not the one and only way. but I stop arguing with you now. try to break other submissions too? no?
how about deativating some thrusters and then complaining it doesn't have 20m/s²? no? why not? that is NOT FORBIDDEN in the rules, I always can go in the CP and do so. COMMON SENSE. Some people have it. Some not.
I apologise if it seems I have been attacking you personally, Rucky. Not my intent. See, now *that* is a good point, and good logic, but I write and edit rules, procedures and other technical documents for a living. It's one of the reasons my examples and analogies are weak, and why I tend to chase down rules ambiguities. Top two tips for writing rules professionally from the last 15 years of experience: Tip 1, Avoid using absolutes at all costs. Avoid words like Always, Never, Cannot, as you'll likely run into problems later when an Always condition meets a Never condition. Tip2, "It's Common Sense" and "In the Spirit of the Rules" and similar should not be relied on as arbitration, as they mean different things to different people. Write unambiguous rules or issue errata. These two things combined are why I've been so active, and so adamant, on this topic. It's about a rule containing an absolute, defended with an appeal to common sense. That's a 15 year professional trigger, right there. Once again, I apologise if it's felt personal. Anything I can do to un-burn this bridge? I wasn't asked for my opinion by Shark on any other builds. I haven't weighed in on the covered thrusters because I personally don't mind covered thrusters, and Shark has not asked for group opinion.
Thanks, Razorwire . . . I now have the song "Beep Beep" going through my head. @styLmntz do you still get good light from it behind that turret?
Calm down Rucky - no-one is actively trying to sabotage you. This is a friendly challenge and there was a question to people about the interpretation of the rules. As an outsider - and no part in the challenge - the way I see the rules is that Iron Hawk doesn't meet the redline requirement. Rule clearly states that if you can make the vessel redline, it doesn't qualify. Not that it can't redline in the configuration it is spawned in. And no, my interpretation has nothing to do with your ship nor you personally. Quite the opposite - it's good use of the control panel and smart way of doing things. So definitely nothing personal. But what is 'fair' and in the 'spirit of the rules' is up to the challenge creator @Robot Shark IMHO. And whatever the ruling is - it's not worth getting upset about because for the sake of the challenge - rules are the same to everyone.
Oh, thats like teasers. Can't wait to see the whole ship. on airtight Blocks: I am fine with either way, its merrerely a design decision when i get to these parts.
The ship is just barely under the weight limit. I was not able to roast myself anywhere in the pilots areas. The only internal area I could find without O2 was the lower windows on the bridge. Sadly, I was able to get the generators to 91% while in flight on Omicron. Also it has max a acceleration of 19m/s , not the acceleration of 20m/s (in at least one vector) specified by the challenge. Most of the thrusters are exposed, but I found S thrusters behind S thrusters on the front and rear of the ship. Meaning that one of the S thrusters are firing directly into the thruster in front of them, which disqualifies it for the challenge. The spotlights are partially obstructed by a steel block but IRL light would not be blocked so that is fine. Very good block and texture work, the underside looks a little sparse, but with how low the CV sits I can understand that decision. The ship has dedicated medical facilities, engineering & crew quarters. The multiple hangars are nice. Pilots must use the control panel to operate the ship, all of the fuel and O2 tanks are behind windows and players cannot directly access any of them.
Limitation of the game engine, you can have a spotlight completely obscured by a steel block and the light will still shine through. Thats why there is a rule about it, I look at the spotlight placement and ask, would a light shine through this IRL?
I know @rucky is not going to like this, but I am going to amend the power usage rule. "1. You are only allowed one T1 Large Generator to power it, and the generator cannot redline (go over 90%) with the ship at full power during flight on Omicron." You can always make faux-thrusters as placeholders for a recommended upgrade. Or have a S thruster with enough space behind it to replace it with a M thruster.
I am happy that the issue is resolved and Rucky, for the record, I think your ship is better than mine. So far it has my vote should you alter it slightly to make it compliant to the challenge rules. Cheers,
I had forgotten I had those placed there. Was meant to have them in a fourth thruster location. Will fix. Not sure how it got to 19ms on an axis, I was sure I had it at 20ms when I saved it. Will fix that up too as I was testing and building it on Omicron There's a fuel tank in the Warp Core Room with open access for refueling and I'll fix the Windows in front of all the O2 Tanks (slight oversight there). Blueprint now updated to fix issues mentioned Max power on Omicron is 84% now, thruster configurations fixed so no hidden thrusters and two windows removed for the O2 tank access. Added two ground access hatches to the Main Hangar deck too. Not sure I can fix the O2 sections in the Bridge without ruining the look and feel of it. Seems more a block limitation than anything unfortunately. Thanks again for the feedback Robot Shark
To be honest, yes I don't like it. Did I already made a compliant version, with just removing the Thrusters? As it was easy to do, Yes, updated. But that's not my view for a ship in that class (late starter vessel), that even haven't some upgrade possibilities included which can increase its usefulness in different situations. Do I heavily suggest removing tanks that don't even have an ammo box included? No. Do I suggest someone should make other vessels because that one I already saw? No. Do I remark some vessels can't even turn in an acceptable way? No. Seems I have to change my mind.
Sadly, the bridge is a game engine limitation. There is no way to fix it with the current design of the bridge. I guess I missed the one fuel tank in the warp room when I went through it the first time, my apologies. The ship meets the challenge now. I thank you for being a good sport about it. Power management is one of the key annoyances with the challenge. You can always make Faux (fake) thrusters where you recommend players place them when upgrading the ship. .. marked blow-away panels for additional thrusters. S thrusters with enough space behind them to install a M thruster. I have looked at the updated blueprint and it meets the challenge now. I like the over and under hangars, and the fact you managed to squeeze 7x5 hangar doors into the build. Excellent use of textures and colors. (from what I can see, color-blind) The horizontal antenna where pulse lasers or rocket launchers will go is a trick I also use. The only suggestion I can give does not count in the challenge parameters. But it is to close the gap between the floor and ceiling in the crew quarters by rearranging the "L" blocks on the ceiling to complete the center walls. The current entries:
could you make a screenie where you mean? not sure where... Spoiler: pictures of area If you mean at the entrance (last pic), if you add an L wall there you can't get out everytime (depends on the exact even standing of the ship); yes it's not perfect, but as good as the engine can do it right now. Sadly with all the Consoles, Sensors and Levers there I couldn't get railings there either...
