"Halfway reasonable" is the issue...that even you aren't willing to call it fully "reasonable" which is telling, as well. His post does comes across as a vent versus a constructive criticism even if that wasn't his intent. I've only been visiting this site for a few months and can't say I really noticed this behavior by the mods. I'm not saying you're wrong, only that I am expressing my ignorance of it. I can support the idea that mods are probably better just not "liking" any post no matter how innocuous it might be simply because their title suggests needing to keep an element or sense of neutrality in all matters so as to be viewed as impartial judges when occasion comes to have to exercise their responsibilities. I think you have a perfect right to express your opinions and spiritedly defend your position as long as they're reasoned arguments (just as you have done here) and not a mixture of ad hominem attacks, veil insults, or otherwise general rudeness. I suspect that any of those threaten with bans were those same people creating the toxicity in the community you speak of. Taking your post here as an example of your general behavior in posting I doubt you really have any fear of that being done to you. Increased grinding and increased tedium. That very much a YMMV type statement. The game title includes the word "survival" and to degree grinding is an element of that. Well I admit I'm a little weird in regards to this. I often listen to history and science lectures while playing this game so the grinding for me is a soothing activity to occupy my hands while my mind is otherwise occupied with the lecture. But since the game has provided devices to often remove much of the grinding required as you progress (auto-miners for mining, planters for cultivation of food and medicines, etc.) I don't know if claiming they've only increase this is really accurate. Yes. Agreed. As a SP gamer, myself, end game is probably even more important than for the MP gamers as many of them might see the PvP element and its associated play field dominance to be the major outcome. As a SP gamer a goal, or better, a variety of goals interwoven in with a compelling story line to drive play along is what I hope to see by final release. Something like the Fallout titles that had a main quest that initially drove your avatar but also was chocked full with smaller, often unrelated, quests, stories, and mysteries that provided a greater sense of a world beyond just your immediate character and his personal concerns. But this game is still in Alpha and so I expect "story" and "quests" become more of a focus later rather than now as the in-game tools and processes are firmed up enough to properly execute them as a player.
SGP---very reasonable....to directly address your last two points...the existing long standing systems are being altered just to make them MORE grindy and tedious....Whether or not you have a auto miners is irrelevant if the clicks to use it and its products have increased greatly. ore-- constructor---product vs ore-storage-constructor-storage-product that is tedium simply for the sake of tedium. planters....oh you have no idea how far they have been nerfed and rewritten medicines..once again trust me it used to be much less grindy and tedious. The alpha excuse lags a little when there is not even the slightest whiff of an endgame. It leads to the thoughts of OTHER game designers that just rolled the company over for the quick cash and left the EARLY ACCESS to die......and there are lots of those. To address your first post after all.....if a vent is a vent ok....but why are the players jumping his behind and beating him into submission....are his thoughts not equally worthy...or is this a forum where anyone not toeing the ra ra go eleon line is taken out back and shot? This is exactly the behavior that leads to threads on the toxic community...he wasn't talked with, he was flat out no hold's barred attacked. And only one of the people in this thread is employed by ELEON, so why are the players getting bent and beating up people? Complaints gripes and vents are just as relevent as the fawning approval of the mods listed in this thread.
U really need to read my post. I havent said ANYTHING towards this player or towards what he said. I answered someone else in this post. So stop draggin me into it. But sure lets play the mod. Please DO NOT restrain yourself when giving feedback Don’t restrain yourself when giving feedback, but also keep it focused so the Mod team and Community Manager can actually make use of it. No one will gladly read through a wall of flames that will need dozens of comments to find out what this is all about. Please DO NOT try to convince anyone of your opinion This is YOUR opinion about any game mechanic and we are looking forward to read and analyze it. BUT this might be just YOUR playstyle. Please be respectful and take into account that other players play the game totally different or like or hate other game mechanics. If you want to actually DISCUSS your concerns, feel free to do so. But do not try to evangelize others in a way that only YOUR point of view should be the correct one. Please DO respect others Please respect others and their way to write or express themselves. This does NOT include what is usually called “bad language” (overly swearing for example). We do not follow any argument saying “but this is how i always talk”. If you cannot adopt to a civilized way of writing and discussing in a community board, we will act on this accordingly by closing or deleting posts, conversations or issue temporary or permanent bans. 1. Do not do any of the following: Flame or insult other members Issue defamatory statements, rumours or indicate (questionable) info in order to influence others to use or not-use any service or to promote a certain opinion about a 3rd party, especially if those are NOT included in the ongoing discussion. (Example: Discuss your bad experience with those that caused it on THEIR channels, but do not try to convince or spoil other players in OUR boards, that you think your personal opinion is the only objective judgement about the capability of a service or other persons ) Bypass any filters Abuse or encourage abuse of the Post Reporting System Post personally identifiable information (i.e. name, address, email, phone number, etc.) Bump threads / conversations Derail a thread’s topic Post links to phishing sites Post spam (i.e. +1, 10char, rickrolls) or Re-post Closed, Modified, Deleted Content Repetitively post in the incorrect forum or channel (example: trade requests belong in trading forum) Openly argue with a moderator
Let me put it this way: The things the original poster said about the devs in their review, I can't repeat here because it would be inappropriate for me to say them. The original poster was not posting in good faith.
SHAUN!!! I'M COMING SHAUN!!! I have only known you for five minuets BUT MOMMY AND/OR DADDY IS COMING TO SAVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just need to pick this here corn first. And go half way across the map to squish some bugs for my settlers. And find some soda from a random homeless guy. And kill some raiders that were minding their owe business. Make coffee. Tooth Paste Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
Germanicus (& ravien_ff)> Did you read his rambling on Steam? I should have followed the link down (down for sure) to those three reviews .. looks like classic impulse control issues combined with how geeks of a certain age seem to have embraced having no measurable social skills as a badge of honor during the late 80's/early 90's. Still working off that one. Taelyn>[we] try our best to communicate but we cant cover all No ax to grind and not saying you guys aren't engaged but likewise not finding anything that articulates the holes that won't get filled anytime soon either. I'm just a dolt doing an RTFM when there ain't no FM backward thru threads to figure out what's going on and still getting lost most of the time; finally finding out you're falling into the same hole that everybody else has since V1 starts to feel like a hazing ritual after awhile. As far as user / dev interaction I've got no complaints and already made my suggestions. Hound> Once more a person gives a halfway reasonable concern and is bombarded until they either shut up and sit down or just leaves. Hope you didn't mean me .. I still have 83 HP and a med kit. If you meant ArdWolf he virtually slammed the door and had already walked away after taking his dump. You can't really engage with somebody who already left. The guys saying there's nothing in the effluvium that remains is another thing .. filed in https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com under genetic. From what he dumped here I thought and still do think that he had some good points and wondered where all the clearly vested push back was coming from. The "bite my tongue .. your mileage may vary" in the other thread really got me curious. I agree that having the default response to someone saying your community is toxic being to have a choral reply that they (along with an indeterminate set of millenials and non-English speakers with either poor impulse control and/or Tourettes) are overly sensitive is sticking a coda on a missed opportunity. I'd disagree about Empyrion needing an end game for the same reason I wouldn't expect to find an entry under end game in an AD&D DMs guide; programmed POIs will always be some deterministic only-new-once variation on the Stanley Parable and putting effort into that doesn't have the payback you get from engineering situations and letting the people playing the game define done and give them the tools to do it. I'd agree that the the sub-typing of 3D capable vessels into SV/CV is arbitrary and creates the potential for problems (see attached SV with a door for my mouse) without adding any perceptible value. As far as upvoting comments where people say "thank-you, you're great, they suck" it's pretty hard to say thank you for your support when the people giving it feel the need to wrap it up in invective or clever prose. I think that tendency is what this whole thread is about and I honestly don't think I'm any better than anyone else here in that regard. It often sucks to be a mod.
Heh, yup pretty much most of the Fallout titles. FNV was "I'm looking for the man who shot m....oh,shiny" and Fallout 3 was "Have you seen my Daddy?" "No, but say, you don't look particularly busy so mind doing this little job for me?"
Even an abusive spouse can have legit criticism about how dinner was cooked but the ringing in the cook's ears from the shouting and insults screamed at them in the process can make it kinda hard to hear it.
imlarry specifically endgame....THAT is just a specific point of contention. Endgame can come later BUT we are getting concerned about the trip to get there. The devs have SEEMINGLY been chasing their tails for the past year. This problem is something I come back to and people say I am griping and complaining but there we go..... 1. mining has been changed FOUR times. ore deposit, nuggets, ore deposits, nuggets and ore deposits. I am not going to all of the other examples of pete and repeat programming in this development of software. When there are so MANY dreadful repeats, the take away is they either are just throwing stuff against the wall or they have no idea where they are going. UNITY problems are not part of this because that whole situation is a beast. But the constant rewrite rework redo recomplicate reconfigure and just botch up with out end leads to the idea that no one has any idea of where the end is gonna be. If we start in Dallas, on a road trip to Chicago and end up in Key West FOUR TIMES then you are gonna start to doubt my driving ability. This software roadtrip has ended in Mumbai on three occasions and I think we were on the Moon once.
Criticism is never an issue and as so many people pointed out, there is a right way to deliver it and a wrong way to deliver it. You can feel all the self righteous you want, however what is the point of communicating if no one understands you? If you got a problem you don't start by calling people names and yelling. Most people on steam start their criticism by calling the devs names and badger them with how easy it is to fix things. They also want content to be fast and bug free. Simple understanding if you read steams early access as it points that the product MAY NOT be developed past this point. So early access is a risk to both the dev and gamer. You take the game as is and hope to do bug reports until it is finished. If you think end game is in a alpha game please show me a few good examples of this? Lots of released big company games wait until after release to throw in end game stuff a lot of times because they have hard deadlines to make the game work and it still gets out the door with game breaking bugs. Right now they are adding small content (New planets new blocks) along with frame work. Weight and volume frame work adds to physics frame work. They added the faction frame work also. This stuff is boring as hell in the general sense. The factions are finicky and I kussed looted a talon box that wreaked my faction. I stopped for a month because of how lame it is. It is alpha so i can switch games and come back. That being said, you do not build a house with the couch and tv, you need a roof, walls and electricity along with many other things before you get to the end of it. You have ever right to complain, but do it so people can understand you?
ok Supay here i a polite and nicely worded criticism...we have needed a block for over a year.....One block to finish a certain angled run. Instead we got mining reworked FOUR times. We got MANY systems changed and then reverted back to the starter, We got NEW creatures that are actually cosmetics reworks of the previous ones. We got many other "things" instead of that one block. And defending the company on the basis that they are headed to crash in early access the way many others have is a big no no. If your only defense of a company is that others have failed that is not a good outlook.....and with all of the recent real world COURT decisions on lootboxes and people getting legally interested in the gaming business and the way it is run, it is certainly not something we want to look forward to. And no companies don't wait until after release to put out the end game.....they may have added things but the end of the game is there unless they are a massive failure like NMS,,,,,,once again proclaiming failure is not a good look.
RIght, I have been summoned to this thread. Before things get out of hand further I wish to remind everyone about the rules and to debate the TOPIC, not players. If anyone has an issue please PM, instead of building up anger or resentment and lets resolve the issues
I think the complaints about a lack of an "end game" are valid, but different people mean different things by it. Clearly the game does not have an END, it is more of an open-ended RPG. But even open-ended games typically have phases, the early game, mid game, and end game. For Empyrion: The "early game" is when you're exploring the first planet, getting the resources to make a base or ship or whatever. The "mid game" is when you're starting to explore other planets, and possibly establish footholds on other worlds. The "end game" is when you have maxed your level, have a decent CV, and have adequate resources to start building most of what you want. Other people may draw lines a bit differently. But the point is that most of the challenge is in the early game. The mid game has POI's to explore, but when you get to the later stage, you can build all these cool ships but not do anything with them. And that is true, you get to that point and there's not much to do. PVP maybe. But there's not really anything interesting to explore, or challenges to overcome. Once you have a few thousand ingots of each resource, survival mode basically turns into creative mode. Base attacks are coming but I think that might be more of a mid-game challenge. The supposed end-game challenge is searching for Empyrion, which might be in other systems or whatever. But there seems to be little movement in that direction.
End game Single Player need some missions and some challenges, like take on heavily fortified system with large vessels and a lot of drones and troops. Now there seems to be developed a "proper" base attack take over system (is a test folder that can be activated, ref. @spanj video on YT) . But as long as there are many issues and bugs with current workings, such probably ought to wait. Main difference in feedback ways is "whining" (as in the OP) or try tell (in details) how to improve the game. Only 2 postings here do not seems that have tried to contribute in a constructive way.
Thanks Ian- I'd thought hound was meaning more along the lines of Quake or Half-life's chapter organization. I totally get what you mean about the "once you have a few thousand ingots" thing; the factory comes thru for you sort of like Wile E's Acme in that regard. Likewise once you become familiar with the layout of the POI's the challenge they present drops fast. My wife and I play the game after work for an hour or two and at this point we can sweep many of the bases in less than five minutes without taking any trips to the clone chamber. The primary programming challenge that would seem to offer the most bang for the buck in keeping things fresh would seem to be the AI behavior of the machine controlled factions. That would provide the most seamless and tuneable way to increase the challenges without getting on a treadmill of introducing fresh content. Like PacMan it would be nice if the different AI controlled units were operating under variations on the algorithms that control their movement and potentially using something like Left4Dead's AI director to introduce encounters that challenge players without overwhelming them. More unpredictability. Elimination of the need for the teleport process to have a static receiver (spawner) could also make POIs more dynamic. Something like that could be done by providing a mechanism to add a CanSpawn property to block faces that you could apply with the paint or texture guns- a triggered encounter would then be able to randomize the selection of a spawn location and players wouldn't know where the enemy would appear until they actually started beaming in (cue stereo audio) and once they did how any specific unit would behave would be controlled by the variant algorithms so their behavior would be unpredictable as well. The same property could be used in ships to give builders the ability to define where a player appears when they exit the cockpit. If factions were able to perform repairs that would also increase the challenge as you would need to not only clear but hold ground that you had cleared under time pressure. As it is right now you can yo-yo above a base and knock out turrets, go home for a repair bay and a sandwich, and then come back three days later to clear. I know base repair is a big wish list item (along with shields to eliminate the need to perform base repairs) .. if that was introduced using block repair/replace service droids (skutters) instead of a Fixit Felix field then both player and machine factions could employ them.
“The Grind Is In Your Mind.” “The Grind Is My Mind.” Good, keep repeating that. It’s a vital mantra to learn when it comes to any kind of game like this. The majority of game play is based on resource collection and item creation. Yes, we have the option to shoot at friend and enemies, but this is not the central feature of the game. I fire more mining beams than ammo every time I play - because I enjoy the resource gathering, as this makes it possible for me to build more and more interesting creations. If you really want an effortless experience, fire up a server and type - IM and hit enter. I give you maybe a day before you’re bored with it.
There's a difference between role-play resource gathering that adds to the verisimilitude of a survival game (ie collecting, opening containers and manually transferring or reorganizing the contents, etc. by choice) when you could godmode around needing to mine resources at all and the "no- that's really just grinding for no good reason" game behaviors that aren't rooted in some sort of consistently reasonable action/behavior expectation. An example of pointlessly inconsistent grinding based on implementation can be seen with both water mining and using portable constructors to bulk process pellets. Neither of these support shift-click to transfer the contents of device output to your connected container- click 'n drag one at a time in a modal window can literally kill you. Based on my experience (VAX/VMS era to the present) the root cause is either intentional nerfing or as a by-product of piling in new features as discrete code chunks as opposed to refactoring old code so that, in the case of water harvesters and portable constructors for example, there is a single container class across everything with shared behaviors. Creating clone 'n go parallel classes in situations like these is pretty much the goto in most IT organizations because you don't need to test your own piece very much but it ultimately leads to complex and difficult to test code in integration because the use cases explode geometrically. It's already been established that automated testing isn't happening (regression anyone?) and so it isn't surprising that sometimes the monkeys pounding away at the typewriter and hoping for a little Shakespeare now and then to go nuts because it begins to feel like snakes and ladders without the ladders.
Thank you! Whenever I mention the awful physics I usually get "No, it's good" responses. The physics are simply the default Unity rigid body physics. The mass is not taken into account, neither are thruster placement, or cargo. While I don't expect it to be perfect- I would love to see these changes as it would really change ship design: you'd have tradeoffs for fuel consumption, cargo capacity, weapons compliment, maneuverability etc. You'd actually have a reason to have a fleet of different ships for different purposes.
One of the biggest underlying points of contention between the different players is in which stage they like best. A SP gamer who favors strong survival elements will prefer that early game stage to the point they want to see it extended as long as possible while the MP/PvP game desires the end game (I prefer to call it "late stage" game) where they can enjoy more PvP or battle royale elements so they want to be able to race through the first two stages to quickly reach that one. This means a lot of the survival elements that the PvE survivalist gamers like to see become nerfed by lowering its requirements in the outset or even outright making it unnecessary in order to allow the PvP combat type player get to the battles sooner rather than later. Its because of these diametrically opposed desires by the SP/PvE and the MP/PvP (not to mention the degrees in between) that I hope the final version of EGS has a way of choosing your level of survival elements not unlike some other games do (For example Fallout New Vegas and especially Fallout 4 both had much more challenging hardcore survival optional setting so those who wanted to focus more on the story elements could chose not to play in). This would allow both schools of players enjoy the element of the game they most prefer. Without a concrete end objective (i.e. assault on the final boss or conquest of the known galaxy, none of which is actually needed, IMO) I would argue the best approach would be to make the exploration aspect of the game as intriguing as possible in order to make you want to continue your journey through the game space much like the Fallout titles made the simple act of exploration of the various wastelands such an interesting aspect of their game titles. Tbh this is more something to appeal to the SP rather than the MP who might be more focused on become "king of the hill" on their server as part of their late game.
