Hey Taelyn .. the issue Christian and I are talking about is static stability of aircraft and weight/balance of the airframe. Thrust offsets are the reason so many people died in home built gyroplanes in the mid-70's .. up to that point the thrust line of the classic Bensen design was thru the center of gravity and just like pushing on a ruler that's laying on a table, if you don't push at the midpoint it creates a torsional force that rotates the ruler/airframe .. the 70's saw the introduction of redrives to slow the power takeoff and let the builder install a larger prop for more power. To add a bigger prop they raised prop center which created a thrust offset that was countered by the main rotor thrust vector but in zero g situations that counter force disappears and the aircraft goes all ouroboros and eats it's tail. This is a picture of an SV I just threw together with all the thrusters at one end and all the mass at the other, including artificial mass blocks that make it barely able to lift off the ground .. intuitively you can tell that a design like this should spin like a fireworks pinwheel but it's totally stable and drives around like it's on rails. Like I said earlier, I like making whimsy craft so I'm not begging for reality (unless it's a start of game checkbox! ) but saying that the game doesn't implement basic flight static stability is a legit observation.
Not even SE takes the position of thrusters into account. Not saying I'm against the idea in general but it will significantly change how ships are designed and that might not be for the best.
Agreed and God I hope we aren't using SE, I assume you mean the game, as something Empyrion should be based on. A few good things but far far behind this game in my opinion. I also really don't think we need to turn this into a "physics simulator" either. Its a game to have fun with that over all allows admins and players a great deal of flexibility. Just my thoughts, if I understand the topic, flight stability with likely be what it is for the foreseeable future.
First of all I want to mention that I read many nasty replies to your opening post, and I disagree with the tone and manner, as there is no such thing as forcing any person to like something he/ she doesn't like. Let's just say that "Early Access" is just a generic format that was imposed as a cookie-cutter solution for all developers who wished to take the "alternative route" via Steam. But if the name of that "vehicle" had been different, maybe less people would care about the format and focus more on the process : developing a game and keeping it playable at any time, or at the very least "most of the time" to cover the inevitable hard bugs that hit everyone now and then. Eleon had the very good idea to keep some older versions available via its tabs in the "beta testing" in the Steam interface. I would even wish that they could implement coop play for all (or most of) earlier versions, as some of them might be easier on hardware than the later iterations, and also less complex. But that's just my personal wish. The point I want to make is that Empyrion might be easily compared to Minecraft, which is still undergoing lots of changes (and not "Early Access") that "break mods" on a regular basis, and allowes players to use any of the older versions at their leisure. This is something to keep in mind, as I see no reason to force anyone to play the latest, "buggy" or "overly complex" version right now. So... if you really like one of the previous versions, you can still play it, without suffering from its ongoing "development" ! And in a sense, you still have (almost) exactly what you paid for at your disposal!
Ty for the explantions . Then I missunderstood it Some changes to the flight system are comeing in A10. Maybe u find it more to your likeing then
Simulated lifting surfaces. Personally I like being able to drive a classic ranch style house thru space AND the atmosphere but I get why some people like their physics to reflect physics. My wish for V11 is collision detection and the death of crusty rendering bugs / blocking code in the refresh loop .. glitches and that damnable spasm field (two days ago it threw my hover tank over 2Km) bother me way more than wonky physics or not being able to make cubes look like spheres but that's just me.
The game engine is flexible to accommodate both. I think it can be fixed by different game scenarios. Right now the only supported scenarios are Survival, where you crash land on a planet and have nothing, and Creative, where you start on a planet with basically everything. They also added Freedom mode, which is sort of an odd hybrid between the two, but it doesn't really have a start scenario specific to it, so I'll leave it out. For people more interested in MP/PvP, they need a start mode where you just start at a space station. The base should have plentiful ingots, and you start with a lot of money (perhaps selectable depending on the scenario, 1000, 10000, 100000). Then people can buy some starting resources and just get right to what they want to play. That mode could be coupled with something like "Freedom" that just turns off food, and possibly temperature/radiation, if people just don't want to deal with that. There might already be scenarios that do this, or servers that have implemented something like this. But without it being officially supported as part of the game, many people would never be exposed to a start mode like this. If you made scenarios that basically start at the "mid-game", and "end-game", then no one should complain about any particular stage being beefed up or dragged out.
Its a pretty good solution you suggest without needing a lot of reworking the mechanics. But for hardcore survival you might still need to rework it some. Hardcore elements like requiring power for items that currently don't (i.e portable constructor) and tool degradation for tools that don't currently do so, either (multitool). Even some elements that would only apply in SP like sleep and drink. Maybe even going as far as reducing the effectiveness of some items like autominers. Since I am talking "hard core" and not just making survival more interesting those suggestions are going to have limited appeal even among the survivalist type players so having those as game setup options would be my favored approach.
I'm fine with "hardcore" if it also means "more realistic": Worrying about water - yes, please Air pressure (too high or low) - taking your helmet off in space should basically kill you instantly Tool degradation - agree that multitool etc. should degrade, however degradation is too fast, in reality a well built tool can last years. Stuff like drill bits wear out, but why would a laser drill wear out so quickly? Everything should require power - yes Autominers - reduce the rate, fine, but they shouldn't deplete (or the quantity should be quite high). The mining mechanic in this game is odd, it works nothing like a real mine. A real mine takes a long time to extract ore from, but the quantity is immense. There's copper mines that take 30-50 years for hundreds of workers to deplete. Autominers should take a very long time to extract ore, so you gain resources more like "X iron per week" instead of just a big pile at once. But the total amount should go away up. Maybe "auto miner only" deposits that are deep, but have a high limit. I don't think these things would have "limited appeal", I think they appeal to most people who like the survival aspect. So if people who were more into the later game stages had a scenario that skipped this stuff, everyone could be happy.
Different starter planets and scenarios are the key. There's some on the workshop designed to give players a head start.
While I support your contention, at the same time I realize that because this is a game, a lot of those things are necessarily unrealistic as to avoid tedious game play ( a very much subjective measurement I know) or preserving some sense of game balance. I tend to try think more in terms of "logical consistency" rather than realism when I argue for things to be a certain way. IMO game balance becomes easier to achieve, not harder, with this. If the Devs say tool X degrades at a certain rate then all like tools should also suffer a similar fate. Making an exception for some and not others only raises the feeling of being arbitrary with the game. Its like reading a novel that has everyone using magic by chanting then having some show up who just waves a wand. Unless you have a good explanation (not some off hand justification, either) in the setting why their wand waving works while everyone else has to chant then you break the immersion and suspension of disbelief important in accepting the setting. I accept the games rule that an earth like planet of less than 20k diameter can have 1g but if they suddenly game me one with a diameter with over 5000k and it had 1g as well then I'm going to have trouble easily accepting this "universe". That is why I feel if the game sets a rule for something it needs to be consistently applied. I do understand that the closer the Devs can remain to real world laws, rules, limits, and behaviors (like water for example ) the easier it is to stay immersed in the general setting and forget you're playing a game. My understanding is you can actually survive in space for about a dozen seconds before it kills you Considering the Autominers currently work by some sort of osmosis through the ground in-game I don't know what to argue here. I've basically assumed the lodes are simply remains of single element asteroid impacts Your probably right here...I'm thinking of other games that implemented the full spectrum of eat drink sleep and fatigue (i.e running) that always seem to have at least one person complain about one of the aspects
Ian>A real mine takes a long time to extract ore from, but the quantity is immense. SGP Corp>basically assumed the lodes are simply remains of single element asteroid impacts Works for copper or iron but mining ore to extract elements from the lanthanide series would be a frustrating endeavor. The component elements would never show up as an ore of a specific element since they pretty much all undergo radioactive decomposition. The Pm we use to power ships has no stable isotopes and the longest lived one has a half life ~17 years ... after that it decays to neodymium and samarium. It would be easier to make promethium than it would be to find it and if you did find it in the wild then you would only find it in very small amounts compared with the neodymium, samarium, and uranium etc. you found it with. Best place to mine relatively pure Pm in our universe would be the surface of a sun so bring your epic heavy armor, available from the Polaris TOP brewery on a lava planet near you or spawn a working blueprint of the Destiny CV from Stargate Universe with the ram scoop option... =)
The density of promethium combined with the fact that fusion doesn't produce anything higher than iron means that the surface of a star is probably the last place (other than deep space) that you'd be likely to find significant quantities of promethium (or its parent element(s)). If what we call promethium ore actually mostly contains some other element that decays to promethium, then things could work (and the process of refining the ore into pellets would actually be the extraction of the promethium from the undecayed other element).
Ah, true, I'd forgotten about the s-process (been nearly a decade already since I formally studied stellar physics :-/). Still, if the in-game promethium doesn't actually have a long half-life, it'd still need to be being continuously formed in order for it to be useful to the player. If it is relatively stable for whatever reason, then the s-process definitely could be a possible source of it.
Dho .. that's what I get for speed reading wikipedia ... I should have said this star- not a star (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GY_Andromedae) ... still think you would find a lot more neo while mining promethium than you would Pm but I gave up on the chemistry major the same year MTV showed up. 8^)
LOL. Wow, talk about straying from the thread's original topic (but it will not be missed) SARCASM: Never again will I ever buy atomic recombiner from Eleon. They fail to properly explain that it was a work in progress and radioactivity could normally result in its use. I was bitten by a house spider that was exposed to the radiation and did not gain any super powers as a result so am very disappointed in this as well.
Hopefully you remembered to make some anti-radiation injections with it, though, right? Also, this probably explains the giant spiders roaming around the temperate planet (your spider's descendants, evidently) .
I feel the same and am puzzled myself, although I usually come up with all kinds of theories regarding such behaviors... One of them has to do with some people feeling the need to show they are smarter than others, while exhibiting something contradicting that pretense. In all events, there is always a motive behind any action or statement. Most of the time it is a simple question of getting other people's consideration.
For me I'm motivated by fairness. I mean, the original poster here did wish physical harm against the developers so I feel like I'm not so much defending the devs themselves, but voicing my opinion that things like that are not okay. I would have said the same things if this stuff was posted on any game forum I follow.
