You don't need to remove them but using them as components saves on mats and time to produce the higher ones as well as how much power they consume, as for what tiers the build recognizes, it may have some bugs and may depend on what type of build but you should check what tier it says it's in In my case for CVs it never recognized the higher tiers before removing the lower ones....
Right now? This poll. I'm gonna start by listing off all the problems with CPU extenders I've seen mentioned in the forum. - it's a pain in the ass to grind out higher tiers. Note, not difficult- pain in the ass. It's tedious, it takes forever, & it saps any possibility of fun out of the game. - the grind of getting the extenders in the first place is a blatant attempt to artificially pad content. "You wanna build a ship? First you have to prove you don't need it." This sentiment is reflected further in the fact that higher-tier extenders can't be crafted. - the passive power drain is too high - the passive power drain is static - the extender blocks can't be upgraded - the tier system is illogical. Extenders should provide modular increases to CPU - the tier system is illogical. You shouldn't need a greater number of more advanced pieces to upgrade the tier. That's MMO grind logic. In real-world applications, it goes beyond suspension of disbelief. - there aren't enough methods of acquiring extenders. It's either grind out trade or grind out POIs & hope RNG favors you. I'm pretty sure there are others, but that's what I can remember for now. Please note, these are not my personal complaints; they're what I've read other players complaining about. Most of my issues focus on the mechanics of CPU in general. Also, that doesn't matter because I've stopped playing entirely. Anyway, let's compare that to the poll. Of the eight issues I can remember off the top of my head, the poll addresses two of them. Eight options to choose from, four replies, & it manages to address two problems expressed by the playerbase. That doesn't instill much confidence. The "not enough traders sell parts" option really jumps out at me here. I've read basically every post on the official threads for CPU, & I don't remember seeing that pop up once. I think the closest I remember is someone saying they couldn't find any traders, not that there weren't enough. & that shows the problem- this poll is basically the 'close door' button on an elevator. It's not hooked up to anything; it doesn't do anything. It's just there to provide the illusion of control. The poll is a priming tool & the options are a list of planned changes. The goal is for Eleon to fix a broken CPU system around the edges under the cover of "we listen to our players," & to get those players to buy into it, thinking they effected some change by voting in a poll. The sad fact is, if the devs listened to the players half as well as they talk about listening to the players, 75% of the 'problems' listed in this poll wouldn't have existed in the first place. Edit: This is a summary because apparently people are having issues with reading comprehension. The poll options do not accurately reflect the complaints voiced by the community. It's nothing more than an exercise in social engineering. I personally don't give a **** about the minutiae of how CPU extenders work (or not). I was comparing polling options to actual complaints from the forums. It's not whether I agree with them or think they're valid. It's that they were there & this poll is the closest thing to an official dev response that I've seen. I listed issues voiced by the players & used them as a litmus test for this poll. That's it. I'm not going to waste more calories responding to people who fail to grasp that as the point of my post.
Have you not played the new update? These are all craftable with just using resources now. You don't have to attack any POI's, or buy anything from traders, or rely on RNG anymore. You can still get them the old ways but it's no longer required at all. So do make sure you actually check out the changes before blindly complaining.... I'm just saying. They are really expensive, yes, but they are all craftable now. I'll agree with your other points on how CPU could be made better. It's obvious they are at least trying to improve it though. So they are finally listening to all the feedback on CPU. The top speed restrictions on the new flight mechanics on the other hand......they are not listening to feedback at all on. On planet is one thing but it's ridiculous in space.
I did read what you said entirely. Why would you go around parroting complaints that aren't any longer relevant? They were already resolved and you still bring them up as current issues. That's how you keep people misinformed. The part you quoted, "What are your main issues with CPU Extenders at the moment?" Those are no longer issues "at the moment" so why mention them?
I'll have to look - I don't have many CV's I've built under the CPU system. Usually by the time I reach anything higher than Tier 3 I'm getting hard pressed to think of anything else to add, or room to add it. But at the same time, by the time I reach a point where I can, I have more than enough materials to make pretty much as many of anything as I can conceive needing. It's just a matter of waiting for the oven to go 'ding' at that point. How so? It it the leveling up you have to do to get there? If so, Creative is your mode. Of course they can. How else does one obtain CPU Extenders? I've always crafted all of mine. NPC's don't use/need them. Maybe? Can't say I've really noticed, as I usually have at least one extra generator, just in case. And it shouldn't be? A device at idle should have variable power requirements? Agreed here. Agree with 'should be modular' in CPU gain, but that doesn't negate a Tier system. The tiers are simply based on the amount of available CPU. CPU up to a certain level is one tier, go beyond that, and you've reached the next tier. Simple. See above regarding the amount of available CPU and how that should relate to tiers. This was changed in 11.5. You can now craft the optronix needed to craft the extenders of any tier. Just have to ask - are you so lazy you can't even do your own complaining? You need someone else to complain for you? Is it "too much grind" to type out your own complaints? Of the 8 you mentioned, four are just the other four rephrased, and one of them has been addressed and resolved. That leaves just 3. I can say, without a doubt, the devs do listen to the players. I've had a few conversations with a couple of them, and I've seen more than a thing or two I've suggested implemented - one such example, most recently, was a suggestion that CPU extenders be auto-grouped into Core. Guess what? CPU extenders are auto-grouped into Core now. Simply because they haven't listened to YOU doesn't mean they're not listening. Odds are they've even heard what you've had to say, they just didn't do what you've suggested, but something else instead. That doesn't invalidate your opinion, it just means it doesn't mesh with their plans, designs and intentions. These forums and the Early Release/Alpha status of the game does not make the game a "design by committee" game. Eleon is going to make the game they want to make. We might have an idea, we might even think it's the greatest idea since having ideas, but if it's not in keeping with their vision, they're not going to do it. This is already one of the most modular and configurable games in recent days - with so many aspects configurable by server hosts or even single-player players that simply put forth some effort to making their experience what they want it to be. Don't like CPU? Don't turn it on. Don't like stack sizes limited to 999? You can change it. Don't like Mass and Volume? Don't use it. Don't like the color of the water? You can change that too. But go on, quit playing. Leave your stuff in my bin next to the exit, and don't let the door hit you where your maker split you.
correct. essentially the poll is a strawman to distract everybody from the core issue. CPU is broken at its foundation and any amount of shoring up and tweaking at the edges just further ensures that the broken foundation will stay.
The Pole is offended at being called a Strawman. The Pole is a real person from Warsaw. The Poll, on the other hand, is just a question with a set of predefined answers, and the option to not choose any of them, and post a comment related to that poll instead. But there's no YouTube video on how to do that, so no one knows how to do that these days. It seems to me that CPU is doing what it was intended to do - to keep people from building ships like that, and calling them "specialized". Is CPU perfect though? Hardly. It has room for improvement, like that Swiss Army Knife has miniature utilities. I get that people want 70 turrets, 180 XL Thrusters, 600 large fuel tanks, 14 layers of armor and.. I hate to shine the spotlight on the fact that, since you can't build it, no one else can build it either, so you don't NEED it. Imagine, if you dare, being limited to 1 turret and 1 manually targeted weapon and 1 layer of armor per ship. Not just you, but everyone. Who's got the advantage now? Well, it's sort of a mix - who has the better design and who's the better pilot? Because that's who has the advantage. You get a fairly level playing field. I get too that you've been designing and building ginormous ships with redundant backups of everything twice since version 0.1. It's time to throw away that old thinking and modernize.
near to finish my all around pve faction HQ Cv . Still got near 3 million cpu to spend.......is so much better to my previus Anaconda on the old system, and still got space to improve is yaw and roll....can keep inside some whole cv and a fleet of sv and an army of Hv... Stop compleing about cpu....they work!
impose limits and call it specialization. yup that was the intent. just wish it was advertised that way...still think it hurts gameplay more than helping. just another limitation system to check our builds against. the main question i have, when does it stop? how many different metrics do we have to adhere to before this is no longer a game to play but rather a Photoshop for ship building?
Can someone explain me whats wrong?! I have this SV from a long time https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1853235110 After last update comparing stats in workshop and stats for that ship in the server where i play ( and where CPU system is off) there is 5 time lower Pitch and Roll?!? How to fix that?
dipensds...maybe you can save it....but maybe you just have to start by zero, or use another one with the new 11 patch parametre....unfortunatly new fly system as destroy everything......
Can't make out the Thruster Layout but pitch and Roll is now a function provided by Thruster Placement. RCS are now rather in a Support Role than in the main Roll/pitch Provider-Role. Eventually @XCaliber can provide a A10.5 Version of the SV - PM him or contact him via his YouTube Channel.-> https://www.youtube.com/user/bscthetaci
Torque is applied by Thruster - if those Thruster are placed on the edges/corners of the Vessel the better. Comparing a CV with SV is not very helpful to understand the issues. Many pre-A10.5 builds have this issue. And the SV is A10 says the Text.
im trying to move on...but i`m still really frustrated about the new fly system and all the implication of it...and better to don`t talk about the mass used to calculculate the top speed... Al the rest, and i`m talking about cpu, weight and vol, etc. Work just fine for me. They made some good staff but some other are dreadfull....i`m still really disappointed.
Hard to believe the dev's thought the way they implemented cpu's in the first place was ok. Reading the poll results you can see they really missed the boat on this one. And now something has changed with the flight characteristics again since 11.0 ........ and severely messed up the maneuvering.
Without limits, how do you Specialize? We're talking about a rather open building system in the game. If you don't impose some manner of limitation, there is nothing that will make anyone Specialize. The only other option that might be remotely possible here is more Starter Blocks. So what would we need there? Combat CV Mining CV Cargo CV Transport CV Medical CV Mutlirole CV Combat SV Transport SV Cargo SV Multirole SV Combat HV Mining HV Repair HV Collector HV Transport HV Medical HV Multirole HV That's a lot of rewriting a basic function. Then that's a lot of recoding a lot of other blocks to ensure you can't add Weapons to a Medical vessel, or a Medic station to Combat vessel, or any other "non-Specialized" devices to specialized vessels, and what you end up with in the end is a lot more people complaining about a change they asked for, but like all armchair developers, did not understand the scope of what they're asking for, and didn't like what they got, because it didn't match up with their vision of what something means, even if, and especially when, their concept was wrong from the start. Perhaps the best question to ask is: What were you expecting and how would have programmed it differently? Unity-formatted source code preferred.
"Specialization" doesn't have to mean hard restrictions on X, Y, or Z, as long as there's some kind of driving force or encouragement to focus down a particular avenue. With CPU, that means you have a certain allotment of points and can only distribute them in so many ways. In a good system, that means CPU would be focused to specific devices, and you'd have to be at least somewhat selective about which ones your vessel (or base) needs to have. Forget thrusters, generators, fuel - let mass & power consumption handle those. Ex: "Combat" SV would have a fairly sizeable compliment of weapons, a network or two of ammo containers + extensions, and at higher tiers maybe a shield. Trying to mount a shield and warp drive (+Pentaxid tanks) would mean giving up some weapons and ammo extensions. Alternately, a "Cargo" SV might mount a warp drive and loads of cargo extenders, but would have little room left for defensive weaponry. To a limited degree, we have that now, especially in lower CPU tiers, but having to share the CPU pool with thrusters, generators, fuel/o2, and even goddamn deco and hull blocks means that CPU pools are artificially inflated to allow builders more wiggle room in being "creative," and in turn that means CPU cannot perform its function of "specialization" when it's essentially counting "able to fly" and "looks nice" as part of its scope. The biggest flaw in EGS's idea of CPU is that they implemented it to be a "specialization" mechanic, a progression mechanic, and a PvP balance mechanic all at the same time - and the system suffers horribly as a result. It's painted over everything in one broad stroke and so fails to serve any of its functions particularly well. Additionally, @Vermillion had an excellent suggestion regarding the idea of some form of 'booster' slot in the CPU extensions, similar to what we have for Armor now, that would provide specific bonuses and penalties for the CPU cost of various devices, which would further encourage a vessel towards specific roles, without forcing the issue. As for the idea of forcibly restricted "specialized" starter blocks... ugh. I've already spent far more time than I should've ripping that idea a multitude of orifices, in other threads.
Well I don't completely disagree with you - and in fact, I think we might actually find we're in agreement with a lot of what we both have to say on the subject. I don't think CPU as a limiting factor is, in and of itself, a bad means to accomplish this. Where I see shortcomings and room for improvement: 1. Inert, solid blocks (hull armor, structural supports, floors, ceilings) should not have an associated CPU cost. They don't DO anything. They're inert. 2. Non-powered "device" blocks like Beds, Sofas, Potted Plants should also not have a CPU cost. They don't require any power to function, they're likewise inert block, though some of these do have a function (a sofa restores stamina, a bed passes time in single-player). 3. The RCS II is nice, but I don't think it's 1.2 million CPU nice. I'm sure there are more than a few other devices that have overly inflated CPU costs. Either these costs need reduced, or their functionality needs improved to justify their costs. 3. As for thrusters.... part of the problem is the old way of thinking - must have 200+ m/s thrust or die in PvP. Once again, this comes down to being a case of "if you can't build it, your enemy can't build it either", which kind of works itself out in the end. However... that said, what MAY help the situation here is another block. Now, before you start tripping, hear me out: Thrusters could easily be tied into a singular Engine Controller device that reduces the overall CPU costs, allows more flexibility in construction, and can be applied to other, similar kinds of blocks. Medical devices could be tied to a Medical Controller, which reduces the costs of multiple medical stations. An HVAC Controller could reduce the costs of Ventillators and O2 Tanks. These Controllers would have no CPU cost of their own, and only a power consumption once installed. Best part? We already have blocks that could be used to fill in these roles - they're found under Decorations, and are commonly called "Consoles". These currently have no other function, except to consume power and CPU, while contributing nothing. These could very well be purposed to provide a useful function, in this case, by controlling the associated costs of various devices, improving overall efficiency, and improving a system. Of course, the most important thing to keep in mind is this: While CPU has been around for a very long time, before it went on a brief hiatus in late 10.x, and was previously a functionless statistic, the intent to make use of it has been there this entire time. THIS IS ONLY its first "functioning" iteration, in an ALPHA build. They've given it a function. I'm sure even they will agree it's not perfect yet. There is certainly consensus here that it is not perfect, but it's not like we're in an actual "live release" either. I've heard the "it's been an Alpha for..." argument plenty of times too, and counter with this: The fact this has been in Alpha for as long as it has says to me that Eleon cares about what they're going to release, which is a huge breath of fresh air in the Early Release arena, as too many projects have progressed, reached a point where a little more time would make a game, and they release, and release is met with terrible reviews and reactions, because they cashed out too soon.
