Ground combat, gun play. Is there anything we can do to make it better

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by SnowdogJJJ, Oct 4, 2020.

  1. Khazul

    Khazul Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Messages:
    825
    Likes Received:
    1,447
    ^ For corners, I have got into habit of pumping a rocket into the floor just beyond the corner - quite often catches the zirax that was camping there.

    For anyone who used to play unreal, quake, half life, team fortress etc - was a common tactic :)
     
    #21
  2. ChumSickle

    ChumSickle Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2020
    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    746
    I like it...stealth through overwhelming firepower.
     
    #22
  3. Khazul

    Khazul Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Messages:
    825
    Likes Received:
    1,447
    Heh - kind of like our task force used to play in ghost recon wildlands - in some bases we used to get 100% stealth just by running in with a LMGs and killing them all before they knew WTF was going on - dead people cant hear :)
     
    #23
    ChumSickle likes this.
  4. The Big Brzezinski

    The Big Brzezinski Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2019
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    428
    Aggression is usually the best response to a combat problem. Attack the dude, attack his tools, attack his plan, attack his safety, attack his decision cycle.

    Some stagger/knockdown and morale effects would be really great if we can get the animations for them. I recall how great it was to be able to use real suppression fire in GTA5. Sometimes weapons in games are great not because they kill quickly, but because they can disable instantly. Flamethrowers and miniguns would be the king of this.
     
    #24
  5. Amethyst613

    Amethyst613 Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2020
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    15

    in case the devs don't know how. This example hardcodes leftCtrl, the only difference to make it re-mappable is to call instead a lsitener that identifies the crouch control from a keybinding map. Ta-dah. Three minutes. Get it together please
     
    #25
    Ambaire likes this.
  6. Amethyst613

    Amethyst613 Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2020
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    15
    The suggestions you make are like asking for a pony. It's like you have no concept of implementation for any of this stuff. What you ask for is lieterally months of dedicated work. Get your head in the game dude. Stuff like 'crouch' is literally 5 minutes to implement. Just so you know why I (and a few others) are a bit exasperated or simplistic with responding to you.
     
    #26
  7. The Big Brzezinski

    The Big Brzezinski Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2019
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    428
    The pony I'm referring to can be anything you'd like to ask be added to the game. Crouching, mech leg vessels, physical blueprint factories, you name it. What I'm trying to coax out of you who want crouching so badly is details as to why it's a good idea. I do not just "get it" or "know, ya know?". You have to explain. So far people only seem to want it so they can hide behind rocks. I'm hoping there's more to it.

    Here, I'll go first. I think adding positional audio for mob's idle and attack sounds would help combat a great deal. Humans are a hearing species, and our brains are wired to listen for sounds from potentially dangerous sources. People use sound localization everyday to locate other people, moving objects, and anything else that makes noise. Currently, sounds from entities always seem like they're coming from between your ears. It's not only an uncanny experience, but it makes it very difficult to locate threats and attackers.

    Your turn. "I think adding crouching would help because..."
     
    #27
  8. Arguro

    Arguro Lieutenant

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    14
    I don't want to get stuck on the "yes/no crouch train"

    Instead let's focus on the wider picture. FPSs are mostly mechanical affairs, that is to say, you use different mechanics to outwit, outsmart or outgun the enemy. Right now, the Empyrion way seems like a one way road (use armor, shoot things and don't die) It's not superbad, but it is not very sophisticated either. The only true unique here is the creativity of some POIs, that add an element of a surprise. Maybe some genious platformer or puzzler elements. This last thing is something that an average FPS doesn't have.

    So, I think the more prominent question is how to evolve the mechanical play. This could be anything really. People focus on crouching because that's one of the first things all other FPSs have in common. Instead add mechanics that work in tandem. For instance, a grenade would be an interesting mechanic for an enemy. Dodging a grenade would then become interesting to add to the player to counter that.

    Another example would be an enemy that deploys a sniper rifle where you need to dodge and crouch to get to a good firing position to take it out. This creates a nice tandem / juxtaposition of mechanics that actually enhance one another.

    If this is not implemented, it might be better to go the route of Doom. Be a fast runner blaster game where you can run like hell and shoot countless of enemies and shock absorp attacks and do power-ups.

    Imo they need make a choice on that, what kind of FPS experience they want us to have. Right now it feels just very "basic"
     
    #28
  9. Mirosya

    Mirosya Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2019
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    98
    Imho destructible environment aka voxel world makes it very difficult to build balanced fps gameplay, so the strategies of most old fps games just won't work for us. If the enemy is too dumb, we will bypass him, dig in, throw grenades and be disappointed with the simplicity of the process (vanilla empyrion). If the enemy is stupid, but fast, we will also bypass him, dig in, kill him, but die a couple more times, because a full-fledged duel with a rocketman from around the corner is certain death, or a fast special forces will shoot us aimingly in a matter of seconds (abandoned assemble yard). As a result, we will be somewhat dissatisfied with both options.
    Honestly, I see the only solution to the problem only in a significant complication of AI - not to leave a single enemy unit alone with the player, but to teach him to work in a team against one player, against a group of players, to teach him to think on a planetary scale on the expansion of players and their attempts capture certain objects - but I feel that this will lead to a significant load on the client / server of the game.
     
    #29
  10. Jacoviz

    Jacoviz Captain

    Joined:
    May 13, 2017
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    161
    To improve gunplay there are various thing to do:

    -MOST IMPORTANT: improve shooting/reloading animation to better feel the weapon when it shot

    - Ragdoll on enemies to have a little bit of satisfaction when you kill enemies

    - Better recoil mechanic

    - Crouch, prone i think it's not necessary

    - More ammo types

    - better weapons sound
     
    #30
  11. Dragon

    Dragon Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    236
    I don't think ground combat will ever be brilliant in a game of this type and scope but, I'll throw out a few ideas of my own that may improve it somewhat:

    -Make enemies take cover. If there are objects nearby, make enemies stick close to it/crouch behind it.
    -Make enemies stick together. Maybe animal herd mechanics could be adapted for enemies spawned from the same NPC spawner?
    -Add crouch/prone for the player. I'm not going to explain the benefits of presenting a smaller/lower target profile to your enemy because it should be obvious. Fact is, if you're caught in the open and get shot at, you hit the deck. (I advise people to do the same in real life as well).
     
    #31
  12. The Big Brzezinski

    The Big Brzezinski Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2019
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    428
    An advanced version of the night vision goggles that highlights living creatures and turrets in color against black and white background would help a great deal.
     
    #32
    Cluascorp likes this.
  13. StyxAnnihilator

    StyxAnnihilator Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2017
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    450
    I know, just add to the suit full Crysis options! :cool: Along with a blade.

    You can not shoot through damaged blocks "openings" and some devices, making prone/crouch not that useful. Several weapons you can use at a longer range than NCPs and drones, so no need to hide. You rarely fight on foot PvP enemies (other factions).
    Lean left/right would for me be more useful, already have the buttons for it with roll for vessels (Q E).

    More uses for the Explosives. Like a remote with 10 channels so can place that many linked to the trigger. Make it throwable, then act as grenade. Proximity sensor, as a claymore. Function selected by activating a wheel as for tools. Timer function, so can choose the countdown or just no counting. Then can place several close to one of the others and get more damage at once from only one with remote or so. Of course can activate explosion by shooting at one.
     
    #33

Share This Page