Neither I do. I also believe that wheels are entirely pointless in a game where hover vehicles exist. The same goes for walking in a moving vehicle. The space sectors are not nearly big enough to do that or does anyone fly 5ms on purpose just to make the flight longer so that walking could make sense? Edit:// I wouldn't mind to see a landig gear deco with wheels. That would certainly fit many blue prints, but they don't need to actually spin.
It's more of a MP thing, one player can be piloting and the crew, faction members can walk around doing stuff and not have to be stuck to a seat It would also allow for NPCs like crew members later as even the free roaming NPCs can't do it Ho and yeah, boarding a moving ship would make for some fun gameplay
I'm all for "more choices the better", if people want to make wheeled vehicles (and it was possible) then let them. As for walking in a moving ship... Come on... Just imagine making a small fast ship that could dart to an enemy ship. You dock your ship on the hull and blow a hole in it. Then fighting your way to the control room to switch off the engines and take over the ship (of course after killing all the enemy in the ship). You can't do that on a moving ship at the moment.
I also could not care less about wheels or walking around a moving ship. I'd rather the devs focus their efforts on other things, like removing those invisible walls inside ships once you've disabled them, or giving us a way to stop a ship's spin once disabled without having to leave the playfield first. Wheels are an aesthetic choice so I'm not actively opposed to it. I just hope that in reality, we eventually have floating tech and aren't using wheels in 200 years! Hover vehicles are more "spacey" than ancient technology like wheels.
Of course, but... why the fixation with the motorbike then ? Maybe not "mine" nor "yours" but with its poor reputation for as long as I can remember, Eleon nevenr fixed it althought it was prctically unanimously criticized. Then there is this, from the 2016 "survey" ( link : https://empyriononline.com/threads/results-of-survey.7525/ ) : This was rated higher than "Radar, Fog-of-War" which we got, but I suggest taking a look at the whole survey results to put this in perspective. There were two categories ( Major and Minor) and it appears that things were implemented based on the ease of execution rather than any position in the surveys. The very first time we were told that we would not see any more wheels than what we got (the lol motorbike) was in post #14 in this thread which was closed earlier today : https://empyriononline.com/threads/v1-7-5-patch.99517/ This is the first and only times, on these forums, that we are told that we will not get "wheels". I am pretty sure I am not the only one who is surprised by this announcement, but I am not surprised of the way it is done, not anymore. Looks like the cat will come out of the bag finally. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is not so much about having "wheels", it is way more about having Eleon being honest with the player base. For years they have avoided direct statements on what features we would get or not get, by choosing loose wording to keep players believing they would get whatever they ask for sooner or later. Some of these things are inherently very difficult to achieve, but we still get these obscure "might do but not now" or " planned but other things come first". I never believed Eleon would be able to deliver wheels. but I kept asking them because they - not the players - put them in their "survey". The only reasons to put items they know they will not make in a survey is to attract and please players. Looks like the "tide is turning"... This is a sad day for Empyrion, because this game would never have gathered such a dedicated host of followers if the simple truth had been said long time ago. By keeping things vague they misled players into believing they could do everything. Personally, knowing howm this is a very unrealistic statement regarding game development, I would not have spent my time on forums telling players not to expect too much. I got the flak because they were told on the other side that it was all possible. I got flak for being honest. Now guys, hope you better understand my actions on these forums. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Strictly on wheels : even though this is a "space-age game" we have civilisations with vastly different tech development status : primitive Talons (with weird shaman powers) and high-tech factions. There is a hole in the middle, where we also have propulsion that relies on todays' physics (thrusters...) while there is also very advanced tech (teleport, warp drives). Wheels will probably still be part of our human industry for a long time because they require far less eneergy to move large mass around than any other method we can think of. For a game perspective, they would call for a large overhaul of combat (like one is not due anyways hahaha) because wheel vehicles do not "strafe" and would be slower ( meaning : less glitchy because lower speeds on bumpy terrain). It makes sense that a wheel vehicle gets "stuck" on a rock, but not for a HV, but that's the situation we got anyways. Trucks and exploration vehicles would have made a cool complement for space vessels, being slow mass/ material/ resources work hogs on planets with a fraction of the energy cost of HV/ SV "thruster-based" propulsion. HV engines are either fuel powered (high cost too) or some owther mysterious tech. But the truth is just that it's not easy to make wheel vehicles, and that's it. But bear in mind that it's also not easy to fix problems caused by a game that just has too big to chew for its little mouth... And don't believe the salesman. But I know lots of players here live in some kind of "bubble" deconnected from reality and still want their unicorns... .
I'm just back from "everything explodes" (SE) and must say with all they have it is a rather boring game.. (except the building part, but i found no use for my ships.) They have wheels - that is in no way better than hover and most planets (I was mostly on a moon) are to rough terrain to use those anyways. They have the programmable block - EGS has empyrion scriptring. The things they have and I'd want in EGS are - remote control block - camera block - better gravity generator - pistons, rotors and hinges - the possibility to have many small mods that add objects to the game And for walking on a moving ship - SE wastes that ability with not providing the need to, as there is no crew except other player But I missed my teleporter and the on-foot combat. Also it is stupid to fly with 100m/s for 40km just to crash into the ground and everything explodes as I can not brake in time... (aka landing on a planet)
I have no use for wheels. Nor is walking on ships on my list. At the top of my list, finishing all the half-done things. for example logistics, I really want to be able to use water generators, auto miners, etc in a seamless manner. A way to have offline teammates stay with the ship that I would like.
Also, I am not saying that I am opposed to adding it. Having more ways to build is a good thing (most of the time). I am just saying I don't get why it seems to be a top priority for some people.
It's also not Skyrim but we have the crossbow! But I'd like swing hinge doors and sash windows, and the wheels might allow players to create new 'more primitive' scenarios were they to wish to, long damaged concrete landing runways with destroyed wheeled craft scattered around, and new (old) stories to tell... But we've got what we've got and anything else would be a bonus... whether I'd use it or not!
Halo used wheels/ tracks and had no roads. UT 2004 the same. Off-road vehicles don't need asphalt roads, they only need "paths" which are simple textures overlays. I already made some in previous versions, really not that complicated, and really not the issue here. This only requires using the actual splatmaps system on terrain stamps, for which I have asked for a fix because they keep flipping around even when told to be fixed. Still waiting. You really think that flying at 2 meters altitude in a SV/HV over terrain at 50 m/s is less costly than rolling on it at a quarter of that speed with a wheeled vehicle ? When players pull the trigger and rockets make a hole in the ground, it's pretty clear that the terrain is "all there" when flying over it, I hardly see how greatly reducing speed would force more chunk generation at higher frequencies - quite the contrary in fact. I think you greatly over-though this, as actual SV/HV are far more demanding on terrain rendering (just think panorama from height) than being on foot or in a all-terrain vehicle. And we already have the motorcycle by the way (which is far too rapid), which proves that the terrain is not a problem here. Well it is the absolute contrary and I'm not even sure you really thought that out. The only real "problem" is one of implementation, as "wheels" can be easily botched if not programmed correctly. I'm sure no one wants a GTA or Grand Prix level of realism here, but Halo and UT 2004 are almost 20 years old now, there are tons of tutorials on how to code wheels in Unity, etc. The only real excuse I see here is simple : see how the hierarchy of "docking" is flaky ? Well "wheels" are just the same, but with rotational joints added to the puzzle. Completely unrelated to terrain chunks/ rendering difficulty, really. Much more of a real programmatical challenge, and you know where this points. I don't think anyone mentioned it was "top priority". Do you have specific example of that ? What is "top priority" is whatever we are being told is honest. I don't appreciate being told "we will do this" then wait a few years then being told "we said many times we will not do it" because most of the people who saw the "we will do this" are not around anymore. You don't care about wheels ? Then imagin you're told that " walk on moving ships" or "underwater bases" will not be done, "as was said a few times already". Said... where and when ? We were told that for this year's Christmas patch, work was being done on "terrain generation". That is very "broad". What we got was water effects, but no other change for terrain as such. New models ? That's not addressing the now unusable (since many years) SSG and it's not "terrain generation" it's "decoration". .
My thoughts about increase rendering costs were based on the assumption that road building was something that would modify terrain the same way that mining does. While you have spent time petitioning devs about "splatmaps" it isn't a term I had even heard of before you used it; I thought I was thinking about stuff but clearly not at the level you do.
A Small Vessel already replaces a Hover, what sense does it make to spend resources on one when you can make a well equipped ship. Now if it were a vehicle with wheels the game would have more life because it is different to have to go around a lake than to pass over it, forcing exploration, in addition to the roads that together with the buildings give more aspect of a citadel or complex more colorful in every aspect. A Hover has its problems of aiming to land that a land vehicle would not have, the wheels would not lock with the block of land, among other advantages could create incredible adventures. A Hover is already unnecessary. Wheels would give more life and fun. People often mention SE but there is Elite Dangerous, Star citizen, Astroneer, NMS, Satisfactory, Osiris, Planet Explorers among others. But what game of this type doesn't have wheels? Empyrion!.- PS: It's not my priority either but at the moment I'd rather play FS19 than Empyrion, that has a lot of wheels hehehe.-
We send rovers to other planets, and they have wheels. We have fighter jets and they still have wheels (VTOL is quite fuel hungry). We move furniture around with them, we even tow rockets on large platforms with wheels. Some people still have no access to vehicles on Earth and have to walk for kilometers for water. This is not a bad dream or bad game setup : it's reality. In Empyrion we visit worlds with dinosaurs and primitives that don't even ride animals. Logically, some of the inhabited planets we would encounter in a whole galaxy would be at same level as we are now, some behind, and some ahead. But even advanced civilisations still have day-to-day life needs that are far better served by putting wheels under them than by having some fancy but expensive energy-based system that holds a mass in the air while it's just required to be moved around at ground level. Anti-gravity is not for tomorrow, and from what it appears (UFO research) it requires the power of a mini-nuclear plant to power these things and make them fly like hypersonic wasps. Compared to wheels, that is far from being accessible to the commoneer. I agree to what you wrote @idx64 : wheels could transform the game, slow things down (progression and gameplay) and allow for more intimate relation with playfields (exploring, circling a lake) than what we do now with rapid step-up in tech to fly in a few hours and attack far more advanced enemies. If players could get a sense of comfort and security in some custom made 4x4 and get badly mauled when tackling a POI it could give a better sense of the dangers and balance. Now players start the game, unlock a SV/HV core and a few guns/ thrusters, and they're ready to take on the galaxy. There's a huge hole in progression right there, and a missed opportunity for players to experience a more survivalist early-game experience. Right now there is not much incentive to invest many hours into making very detailed custom planets because players will only zap through that content in a few minutes in a gun-laden ship.
I thought wheeled vehicles would make a decent entry-level transportation tech for the player. Fast on flat terrain, ok with inclines that aren't too steep but totally blocked from excessively rough terrain and water. Far far better than on foot travel or the bike, but still with some hard limits to utility. Moving to a "futuristic" hover vessel would feel like a significant leap, and I personally value that sense of technological progression in a game like this. However, Eleon seem to have struggled with wheels on the bike - though it's worlds better than it was, no doubt there - plus hover tech is flaky at best. If hover tech was improved - it really does need it - so individual hover engines actually followed the terrain better, then that in its self would likely be a firm basis for wheeled vehicles that work well. I'm guessing that doing hover - and by association, wheels - physics is perhaps computationally intensive, or there's some other engine-specific limitation / issue here, hence why hover physics are so darn odd currently. I mean, hover engines follow the terrain to a point, but seem to struggle responding when the terrain isn't there any more. By that I mean you can drive up an incline and the vessel will adjust to follow this change in terrain, albeit a little reluctantly it feels, but once the crest of the hill is reached and the vessel should level out again, it doesn't. Rather it's attitude slllooowwly adjusts back to level. This often results in the vessel, if under thrust, gaining height before stalling as it's exceeded the hover height limit. Manually controlling the vessel to keep it level with the terrain is essential for fast travel over varied terrain, which is a skill in its self of course, but it does seem to just be a compensation for poor hover physics. So, I personally would welcome wheeled vehicle tech in the game, but I'd prefer to see the current implementation of hover physics working better first.
I've yet to leave the atmosphere in any runthrough I've undertaken, and wheels (bike) helps me no end, because of the way I play wheeled vehicles 4X4's and more would give me greater playing enjoyment... as would the ability to make a simple (or more complex) boat, but the devs have their plans and if it doesn't fit their vision then... so be it!
