hi so i mounted this tool-turret on my beloved HV. i see we can eccess it trough the cockpit which is all fine. but it says "turret" so should it work automatically as well ? im asking because im somewhat confused right now. feels like this is some multiplayer-feature only, because at this point im faster on foot with the multitool. of course the dreams where 4 of your teammates use those turrets while i drive the truck are somewhat cool... then again it feels like a waste of manpower when a bot could aim the turrets just like my bots use the miniguns etc... thanks for reading
Like was said already "they are manual only". Just because it's a turret doesn't mean it works automatically, it just means it's not fixed straight forward and is capable of moving. Drill turrets aren't automatic either. While it would be nice if the tool turrets were automatic there are inherent issues with that, such as dealing with bases and structural integrity. It would likely be extremely hard to implement automatic tool turrets and have them work around the structural integrity without causing the structure to collapse. There are other issues as well, like how would it know what structure you are wanting to salvage. I do feel like the tool turrets should have an alternate firing mode (right click to change) where they have a larger radius of effect. That way they can recover multiple blocks at once instead of one at a time. This can still lead to issues with structural integrity though where it accidentally removes a supporting block and causes a collapse. You can mod the config file to make them do this already if you wish though.
i read on this forum; ppl complaining about the fact that the ROF has been nerfed and hardcoded. ppl used ROF of 0.01 or 0.1 and now that doesnt work anymore, despite configs.
really? easiest way to avoid SI problems is to code the aiming to ALWAYS choose the highest part shave it off slowly and assuming a base is built in a sensible manner the roof won't just collapse when one block is knocked away and if necessary as a "grandparent part" into the system where it just aims for the farthest block from the gound with air gaps as invalid paths NPC ai already knows the air vs solid (for pathfinding) and SI is just the inverse of walking AI as blocks don't seem to have much care over if they are actually solid or not plus in space SI is just ignored and that is likely where tool turrests are the ONLY sensible option if you can't get it to work with SI then just set to only work in "auto" while in 0G
That in no way guarantees that there won't be SI issues. What if the highest part IS the source of structural integrity and removing it collapses the entire structure? That is a very real possibility since everyone builds differently and there is no way for the game to know it. For example, a player could build a pyramid type structure where the entire structure is resting on a central pillar that directly connects to the center highest most block on the structure. Removing that single highest block(s) in this instance would instantly see the entire structure crumble at once. You might say "well, why would someone build like that then?" Easy, because they can...... The reasons why don't matter, what does matter is that the game would have no way to logically know that the entire structure is hanging from the highest block on the structure. Any coding "logic" that would be required to overcome these issues would likely tank performance so bad as to make the entire idea worthless as well. Sorry, but your proposed solutions don't actually solve the issues that prevent this from being a thing. Also, any and all assumptions about a base being built in a "sensible manner" are pointless. People don't build sensibly, they build any which way the game allows because they can..... So unless we take away the entire free building nature of the game, any assumptions about how something might be built are pointless and probably incorrect. Taking any building possibilities away from the player base is also likely to have bad reactions from said player base. I'm sorry, but without a HUGE coding change this entire idea is dead in the water. As I already mentioned too, the amount of checks and calculations that would be required to make this idea happen will likely have a huge impact on performance, to the point the idea can't go forward anyways.
ok point 1: sure a suspended design is possible so maybe planetary auto-salvage should be off but that still doesn't explain why space is also disabled point 2: well I proposed allowing auto salvage in space where SI does not apply so YES IT DOES POSE A GOOD SOLUTION LIER and so conclusion: it still has ZERO justification for disabling it in space only that on planets with SI enabled (some people hate it and disable it anyway so on those setups it should be the inverse of whether SI is enabled) so again twitchy: why is it hard coded disabled in space? still no valid reason given
We'd be better off with a salvage mode on laser drills. Then they would be a tool you actively use and build ships around, which are gameplay. Sitting around while a turret shlorps up blocks is not gameplay. It is sitting around.
not gameplay? bro that is my ONLY gameplay for survival games I mod minecraft and ark to just build a base and make my ammo for the end-game my server even has synthesis recipies for crafting every game object you can from just a powered location so don't tell me people don't want to be the type to blast a cv to nothing then suck up the scrap, lots of people hate the manual salvage and no a fixed gun version is actually the OPPOSITE of what a lot of the more "chill" players want we tend to want to park next to the cv we just disabled and let our turret salvage the rest maybe YOU don't want that but don't speak for everyone else if YOU don't want that style of play then just don't put a multi-turret on your CV it should still be an OPTION (even if manually disabled via your own configs for your SP or server setup)
Well my usual option is to not salvage at all. The return on time invested from H/SV mining and trade dwarfs that of salvage. I'll head out in a big freighter to neighboring star, do some trading, strip mine planets. I'll check my autominers on the way home to supplement my earnings. Then I make a big warship to go clear the skies of OPVs and hostile POIs. I don't salvaged them. I just kill them and leave the wrecks behind. as a warning Ship design, piloting, and provisioning are very much core skills of the game. Designing a ship with fixed salvaging tools is something you can optimize and tailor to your preference. A good one might actually do the job fast enough to make it competitive. I can think of no reason why such a good fixed tool salvage vessel wouldn't make the salvage process faster, easier, less stressful, and more productive in exactly the same way a good fixed drill mining vessel does for ore mining. Doing things in a faster, easier, less stressful, and more productive way sounds exactly like what a chill player wants. I'll refer you to the story of the Nanite Build and Repair mod from Space Engineers, AKA Bob. People loved how the mod repaired their stuff, mined resources, and broke down salvage. Unfortunately, it also make the players themselves obsolete. They had nothing to do while it was running. It became a magic box (usually multiple magic boxes) that simply played the game for them. They stopped making ships to accomplish tasks, relying on Bob to do everything. Burnout soon followed as all they were doing was carrying Bob around from wreck to wreck and sitting around.
the return on time invested is LITERALLY why we NEED auto salvage manual salvaging is the main factor in why it is just better to use a bunch of autominers or CV asteriod mining to get what you need to build so if auto-salvage was a thing(someday send out a drone cv to just strip the derelicts in some random orbit) it would be less stupid to have high or infinite despawn timers(above the 10 block "mini" threshold") as people would send out a 100% autonomous drone to salvage and it would logistics dump right into your base decon and have ingots for a whole fleet however yet again you say "fixed salvage tools" the WHOLE issue is that I DON'T WANT FIXED MANUAL TOOLS I WANT FREE MOVING AUTO TOOLS so who cares about designing your vessel to have a spot for ideal FIXED tools when FIXED IS WHAT I WANT TO AVOID nope "chill" means set up your dedi and bases to stay >0 net power input and have a bunch of auto systems to go do stuff while you sleep maybe your "chill" is not the same as the average "chill" and I consider "faster" to be the OPPOSITE of "chill" obsolete players? umm that is literally what I want this is hundreds of years in the future with freaking warp drives buddy humans are obsolete NOW and you think we wouldn't have 100% optional EVERYTHING when it comes to human interactions? the ship AI we "talk" to is true ai humans are SUPPOSED TO BE OBSOLETE in the lore yes burnout is a problem but arbitrary "must do manually" limits that break game lore ALSO cause burnout late-game NOBODY (besides fanboys and freaking masochists) wants to go out and manually gather materials to build your base besides the game is still in-dev and so the bits you call "fun" might not even be the main event later so limiting it in lore-breaking ways will just ruin the game in the meantime with no real benefit though I am a tad confused why the past few updates were just 100% cosmetic tweaks that I never even noticed as I played first person(like most non-crazy FPS players do) so the walking animations were actually something I though pointless outside of multiplayer and that I never even craft a "texture and symbol tool" as cosmetics seemed useless in a space game outside of a few times I used to to add letters or some simple instructions or lables
I'm trying to picture the process in my head. You've got a wreck in front of you. You have a big multiturret array on the front of a CV/HV. You move to within range of the wreck, and the multiturrets just start salvaging blocks. Presumably you have to reposition to reach everything. Why would this be better than fixed tools? With salvage mode laser drills on an SV, you could just fly to the top of any cored POI or ship and start taking layers off. It would zen as heck, just like HV mining. You could use the same SV you use on asteroids and planetary deposits. Plus you don't have to deal with a rack of multiturrets trying and failing to decide with block to hit and where its collision volume is. Now, I'm certainly biased. I like to make ships. I like to design systems that minimize grunt work and maximize time efficiency. So I guess that's why when somebody says they don't care about being rewarded for clever design or skillful piloting, that they'd rather have the game give them everything instead of pushing them to play themselves, I have to wonder what fun exactly it is they're even finding in this game. I have never seen anyone enjoy salvage. They either put up with it because they can't or don't know how to get certain resources anywhere else (particularly xenosteel), or to get something like an equitable return on the time, effort, and resources they put into clearing a POI. If you were using fixed salvage tools on a wreck, you would at least have the enjoyment and satisfaction that comes from accomplishing a goal with a solution you built yourself. It's the same reason why it's fun to fight brain dead planetary drones with a fighter SV or clumsy OPVs with a warship, or mine resources in a HV you've had with you since the Crown sector, or trade commodities across several systems in a CV you haven't used in years. You didn't suss out the right solution. You selected one of many right solutions and made it your own. And then I read these posts saying that salvage is too much work. That you want the game to do it for you. That you don't want to build a solution. That it's not right to ask you to come up with one because you want to "chill". This all looks wrongheaded to me. I question if the resource management and survival aspects of Empyrion are even right for you in the first place. I know I can get a cheeky thrill out of strip mining a 4G lava world over the course of an hour. Apparently that's just not for you.
AIMING AND O2 with "fixed" you directly have to aim (just like the current turrets) with turrets that auto-aim and fire all you have to do is be within range and wait this allows you to do other things while essentially "parked" and will allow you to even fly up to the drop containers(or ignored non-empty storage devices) and grab the RNG loot as well all you people who say "just add fixed guns" keep forgetting that in space you need to watch the O2(as player)and there is currently no way to just not aim(player or CV) I get more satisfaction in minecraft from massive automated systems (wanna even buy factorio and surviving mars) than I ever get from mining a deposit manually every player has a different satisfaction device and the beauty of the lore of the future space tech is that: you don't have do do it a certain way unless you want to in the lore of empyrion I would be the human who never dropped my greedy hoarder side and so I would loot/mine everything in range and eventually use the "true AI" to send off drones to mine/loot everything in the galaxy sure the devs would eventually add a "miracle asteroid spawn" for orbits but that even follows the lore of "empyrion land of abundance" so again HOW IS AIMING A FIXED GUN BETTER THAN AUTO-AIMING TURRETS AND AI SHIPS? if I don't want to aim I should be allowed to let the AI do it for me maybe even set the turrets to have manual and auto modes and so each player can decide how much "turret aim lag" they are willing to tolerate I myself find most games are intolerable with frame dips but I can tolerate 15-30fps as long as it is 100% stable so each player has their own threshold of what is fun and what is tolerable and as long as turret aiming is calculated clientside (homing rockets can be set to severside and anything in-range can run on player ships that are "unoccupied" in a lower load calculation that way my ship with so many guns that most weak computers would slideshow could run on my beast when I want to go zirax hunting but otherwise it would have only a few guns to protect it( a simple switch for "overkill combat and harvest mode")
It could be automatic at least for the CV, as salvaging vessels in space ignores structural integrity. As for the code to auto salvage bases, does not seem like a lot of calc involved. Just pick up the most red ones and randomly pick blocks that have the same SI value. It may occasionally break small parts, but it will not remove a single block that will ruin the whole structure. Anyway, as @The Big Brzezinski mentioned, salvaging has poor return on time invested. It makes sense to salvage xeno steel blocks in vanilla version and take some valuables like generators and stuff. Alright, it might be nice to salvage combat steel blocks early game to get sathium, but that's literally only one POI worth building a decent mining ship and speeding the things up. One POI can be done manually with a multitool.
again you neglect the future CURRENTLY there is only one POI worth the time invested but if you don't invest ANY time (ie autosalvage) the value suddenly goes up so my ENTIRE point is the COMPLETE LACK(of autosalvage) is what makes salvage pointless if it only worked in space(due to some stupid coding of SI where it can't be read by the multi-turret for some reason) then it would STILL add SOME value and no "fixed guns" are part of the PROBLEM as it forces EXTRA time investment that could be avoided so again I ask people "what reason is auto salvage disabled that doesn't rely on logical fallacies or argumentum-ad-historum(ie. it always worked that way so no point in making it better)?" salvage is pointless if 100% manual once you are already on a CV in space if you make it automatic in space it stops being dumb the HV multi-turret should stay 100% manual as it isn't meant to be on a slow tanker carrying dozens of docked ships and thousands of tons of cargo so repositioning and manual aiming makes sense but on your mothership you should be able to use the factory and just auto-salvage your busted fighters (by popping the core to make it ownerless) space battles are planned so we need a system in place to salvage the wrecks manual salvage just is unacceptable in space, no way to argue against it
You know, autofiring turrets work at half speed. They also take time to switch targets. If you have both autofiring salvage turrets and a fixed salvaging tool, I'd bet dollars to donuts a fixed salvage tool vessel would do the job a heck of a lot faster than the materially equivalent salvage turret vessel. I'm just imagining the frustration of watching an entire salvage turret array target the same exact flare block for six seconds before moving on to the next one. Meanwhile, a dude in a salvage SV fills and unloads his 32k hold into a cargo CV again, and again, and again. I like automation as much as the next builder. I love planning out all my Satisfactory production lines on spreadsheets before I construct them so know what to build and that it will all work efficiently. Seeing a construct or contraption I made serving its purpose well is always a joy. But tonnage is tonnage. Picking through the remains of Zirax outposts may get you some lipstick small arms and a few hundred sathium ingots, but not tonnage. For tonnage, you need to mine fast and move weight. You need to pry the deposits off an asteroid like it was a hotdog plant. You need to rip the guts out planetary deposits like a starving hyena does an obese zebra. You need to get that ore home and processed into scores of controllers worth of hull blocks and devices. This is how you reach the point where the shipbuilding question is not "when", but "how many today". This is tonnage. So forgive me if I react to salvage like it was small beer.
but WHY? seriously the turrets might fire at half speed NOW due to a future planned "overclocking" system or for simple balance but that doesn't make manual better it just makes it faster than auto but when we are talking about a few thousand targets on a cv and the odd quirk that the targeting point is BELOW the targeting graphic(so dam buggy) it becomes a nightmare to salvage manually anyway the mounted tools ARE better as they run PURELY on POWER but the need to have 10x the RCS's to aim a mounted tool is just stupid a mothership IRL would be slow and take MINUTES to turn around and HOURS to reach full speed(assuming real fractions of lightspeed like 25% minimum before a warp device would do much good in the sense of the Alcubierre drive) so a fixed tool turret actually should not exist in my opinion(in sensible lore) but as this is just a GAME then we make chocies to make it LESS REAL for the sense of non-realtime actions this does include crafting(making thousands of bullets from plant fibers to done would take hours IRL(the nitrocellulose takes the longest but is the same speed in-game)) so why can we not assume lore then adjust rates to match the game dicontinuity? auto-salvage turrets are lore matched, manual only is not lore matched based on the idea of true ai, warp drive, AIO construction machines and massless thrusters you can't say ADDING autofire is at all silly based on the established "land of abundance and automation" we have I read the backstory lre the devs wrote, auto-multi-turrets are something that MUST be added to remain lore-like and in space there is currently no reason to not copy turret targeting ai packages to multi-turrets(we already have some guns that are disabled planetside or have stats that change when in air) just admit that some people who want to be factorio types exist and that you can just not add it to your ship to remain a grind-only player full-auto multi turrets are sensible for OTHER gamer types it can even be a config thing you can change the aim package reference in the config files auto_turret_fullspeed(for real OP SP ships) auto_turret_slow(current package for most turrets) manual_turret(for those masochists who want full manual harvesting) they might even add a "max angle pivot" to mounted guns so aiming isn't perfection and you get a "lockon" mode where once you lock to a pointed block on a target it TRIES to stay pointed at the target(maybe even steers when in "pilot mode") and so you just match speed and click fire and aiming and steering just locks to where you need to go using the existing feedback of "pilot mode" (I never use it cause steering sucks with it but I would if it was part of lock-on steering)
You don't need any RCS to make a maneuverable miner. You just need an efficient thruster layout. Excessive RCS is just a heavy waste of CPU. If you keep things lean, and don't load a miner with a dozen turrets and rocket launchers, you can dig around an ore body like lamprey through a whale carcass. I'm sure there are plenty of people who like Factorio. This isn't Factorio. It's Empyrion. It's a game where you design ships and fly them around to gather resources, combat threats, and explore the galaxy. The challenges it poses push us to do better. To build better. If that's not for you, try X4 I guess. I don't know what it is about German-speaking countries that produces really great space games, but I'm not complaining.
