I'm updated to the latest hotfix. I just had a go at the default scenario. Omicron start here are my settings: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1179938293 I normally play on Easy NPC because I dislike the idea that the NPCs require 10 head shots to be killed whereas I only require 3 . . . So I wound up getting killed and will restart. Main point is: even though I had the ore scanner, I did ZERO mining for the couple hours I played. Made it to level 7 or 8, had a base with a large constructor, armor station, O2 dispenser, and a spare set of base gear about ready to make a push on one of the harder POIs. Only about 200 rifle ammo and maybe 100 pistol but plenty of O2 and food. I had enough of the basic building materials to build an entire Hover craft with weapons once I got all the parts unlocked. Only thing I really was lacking which probably would have required mining was promethium. I was just heading out on the motorbike to do more scouting and find a promethium deposit and got too cheeky and got killed. How did I accomplish this? I pretended I was a highly-trained astronaut, the sole survivor of one of humanities last hope expedition ships trying to find Empyrion and save humanity. I had just landed on a hostile world with little more than a backpack of gear and my first priority was to survive, then thrive. With that in mind, I considered what I knew about the planet I was on, the gear I had and the opportunities and constraints I faced, i.e., I approached my experience as a survivalist. First priority was oxygen so I plopped down my Emergency O2 dispenser right at the escape pod and popped in one of my 4 or 5 promethium cells. I then started heading for water (nearly 2km away), in hopes I would spot a promethium deposit in that direction. Along the way, I found quite a few native plants (which our scouting probes had already told us were edible and had various uses) so I began collecting on my way. I also used my trusty T2 Hand Mining Drill to break rocks . . . by the time I arrived at the water, I was looking at only a few hours till night time and knew I'd be hard pressed not to die of exposure out in the open. I plopped down my Survival Constructor popped in the ore and started making iron, silicon and copper ingots; I had found plenty of that ore just from breaking rocks. More than enough to build a motorbike. Once that was built, I left the constructor chewing on ore and crushed rock and dashed back to my Emergency O2 dispenser to grab oxygen (I was down to only about 3 pony bottles left). So far I had not fired a shot from my pistol and I knew that while the Desert Worms were passive until they are attacked, they could be dangerous in large groups and also carried various nasty diseases so I opted to sate my hunger and thirst on only the plant foods. With the O2 converter collected I dashed back to my survival constructor, emptied it out, and took it with me, heading west to stay ahead of the setting sun. Along the way I dropped by the wreck POI 'Opportunity" and grabbed the sundry loot that was there, most notably a core. Within 10 minutes I came on a Settlement, that had two or three drones guarding it. Even on Medium difficulty these were little mach for me with my pistol. I may have got hit once but I was fine. Next, I used the pistol to destroy the core on the settlement and placed my own there, taking it over. Apart from the two Transports that the drones had already called out (and whose troops were skulking in the area unseen) this did not provoke any additional Zirax response). Now I had ample food, O2, and building materials. Among the loot were multitools and a T2 drill and a few charges for these devices. I built myself a concrete box under the main HQ of the Settlement and go it all set up. And that brings me to the opening of the story where I set out to find promethium and got killed. As I said, I started with the Ore scanner but it was irrelevant. I was able to get well established (including ample materials to build 10 or 20 ore scanners) without doing a single second of mining. This was on the harder start planet with almost all settings on Normal or hard. I fail to see how any of this can be reconciled with the exaggerated claims about how the changes to mining have broken the game. With all of the surface rocks, the opportunity for the player to adjust so many difficulty settings, and the abundance of neutral POI to plunder, even on Omicron, mining is scarcely significant until long after one has sufficient level, tech and materials to build the ore scanner.
And your point is? By the way. I’ve done that so many times I’ve lost count. On 6.X version and now 7.X and without dyeing once on hard mode. As I’ve already stated. I believe the “concept” of mining is broke. The important aspect was the removal of “magnesium” for ammo production, which I do hope they're fixing. The new version have also made hovercrafts obsolete for mining, except for on the most hostile of planets. The system is “broke” simply because too much relies on one material, one source of energy and one source of faster than light travel. You can’t change mining without it knocking onto the whole system, because ore mining and extraction is a big part of the experience. You need it to build everything, power everything and just to survive.
They removed magnesium and explained their motives, and it makes sense. Now it is replaced by promethium, so that we have to use our resources wisely. It is not true that we can't survive without promethium (biofuel? Maybe upcoming solar panels?) - I have done it on Omicron, and a minimal amount is needed to get a good start. Mining is just one of at least 4 means to get basic materials : dismantling structures, exploring & looting POIs, killing enemies (ammo, healthpacks, food, etc). I did not even get to see a single trader, but I know they will be a solution to some extent later on. HV mining will get attention soon, but they also mentioned that they will add horizontal cylinders to ore deposits (now it's only vertical it seems) so this will probably attenuate the bad feeling many players have regarding mining presently.
Sorry, from a reality view point that doesn't make sense. You do not make bullets from radioactive materiel or even from combustible fuel. Well, except for missiles, but even a lot of them use solid fuel.
Just because it's a game? It doesn't mean that it doesn't have keep to certain standards of reality, besides the game is called Empyrion Galactic Survival. The foundation of it must be based up on reality or it becomes meaningless. Even the lamest Sci-Fi films have to keep to the laws of physics and nature. Why? Because that's the laws of the universe and I want to see this game succeed. Why? Because I'm addicted to it.
Some level of immersion is required. If the game's recipe for bullets involved Oreos and Milk there would be a lot more complaints.
Posted today by another new player. http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197968040963/recommended/383120/ The negative reviews have been on the rise since the update.
lol... Stop making rules out of nowhere. And yes, let's try Oreo and milk for a change, since opening the realism can of worms leads nowhere. Want realism ? One bullet and you're dead. Broken leg? One month without walking. Like it?
----------- "Yes, mining without a scanner is very slow and tedious"... HAHA, you should try something before you comment on it. MINING WITHOUT A SCANNER IS COMPLETELY BROKEN. Over 4 starts, one or another of the required 3 minerals in Hard start will end up giving you a giant CAVE of a HOLE in the ground, at least 6 meters around the ore location indicator in every direction AND NO ORE. To be clear, there's nothing SLOW about NEVER FINDING THE ORE.
Gee, it's sorta like MINING IS TOTALLY BROKEN NOW. In each of 4 Hard starts I end up with at least one of the essential ores being just a CAVE at least 6 meters from the location indicator IN EVERY DIRECTION, and NO ORE. Impossible. Devs haven't even owned up to this yet. Lunacy.
====================== Well, and then there's the total imbalance of the design: You remove 50 stone to get to a tiny pill of ore and BOOM, in 2 seconds of mining you suddenly have about HALF that quantity of stone in ore. So let's see, remove a house-sized area of stone and then a suitcase sized PILL of ore, and end up with almost half the House Size of ORE... lunacy. With that unbalanced design, no one will ever lack STONE, and will be FOREVER THROWING IT AWAY 30 MINS INTO THE GAME. Then there's the whole BOREDOM FACTOR of the new design: Used to be you drilled down about 3 to 5 meters and BOOM starting mining the PRETTY ORE IN PRETTY COLORS. Now, mine and mine and mine through 13 to 15 meters of STONE, STONE, and, wait for it, more damn STONE until finally you reach a TINY PILL OF ORE and boom you suddenly have a significant qty of ore in 2 seconds of drilling... what fool thought that would be more fun??? And it's not much better with a scanner. Really? We're mining for BLUE OUTLINES NOW??? Seriously? I call this release the "Breaking Bad Mining Release" as it's like you're just after some PILLS in the ground.
Says the Noob who never did a Hard game start in his life... Mining is TOTALLY broken for Hard starts now....
\\\\\ says the Noob who's never done a Hard start in the game ever... Mining is Totally Broken for Hard starts now. bad design all the way.
============== "Nope, Netto workforce needed to retrieve 1 ore has not changed - it got faster IF you use an ore scanner. The deposit content IS indeed lower, but not because of the mining, but because of the balancing" Maybe, but not in quantity. Try an actual hard start and go for all 3 minerals and you'll see the fallacy of the design: 1. You'll remove a room to house sized area of stone, finally reach a SUITCASE SIZED PILL OF ORE and BOOOM, you'll suddenly have about half the qty as the room/house sized hole to get to it. It's not size balanced AT ALL. You can measure either by time of drilling, or volume of material removed, BOTH are off as the new PILLS of ore are TINY in size, but big in yield and the times match this ratio. 2. Actually do a couple Hard starts and you'll see the total failure to even find ore. More than likely even in your first 3 digs for the critical 3 minerals, you'll find that with one of them you can't LOCATE THE ORE AT ALL. You'll end up with a CAVE several meters in every direction from the ore location indicator, and NO ORE. Now what do you do???? fail. 3. C'mon admit it. Mining is boring now. Let's compare: a. NO SCANNER: Dig endless amounts of STONE, STONE and MORE STONE. (boring, boring and boring). FINALLY (if lucky per #2 above) you hit a tiny PILL OF ORE. Boom, 2 seonds drilling on it. DONE. Used to be, drill a few seconds, BOOM ore reveals itself, happily drilling the clearly visible ore. Call this release the "drilling endless stone" release... Next: distance: New version: drill down 13 to 15 meters just to reach the area where the PILLs of ORE are, use about half a drill charge and possibly end up with a hole too deep to jump out of. Old version: drill down 5-8 meters max and boom, ORE. Nearly 2 to 1 fuel units needed now over old method, that's why you increased them at the start. Gee, let's making one of the most tedious aspects of the game, more tedious... b. WITH SCANNER: Still all the same DRILLING, DRILLING AND MORE DRILLING. The "BIG CHANGE"??? we're now drilling for a BLUE OUTLINE! Yay, how thrilling is that!!!! wow, purdy blue, every ore, same purdy blue. Really? that's progress??? Drilling for a faint blue outline??? sorry, the game is blown with this new drilling idea. And what's sad is it's the result of the tedium of mining. You guys got so bored with it for all the hours you had to do along the way that SOMETHING, ANYTHING, ANY KIND OF CHANGE, even an ILL-ADVISED and POORLY THOUGHT OUT ONE like this LOOKED BETTER TO YOU. Sorry to bo so harsh, but I've been in I.T. and around Development teams for 20+ years. This new drilling concept sucks in every way possible: a. it takes LONGER b. it takes more FUEL c. it's more BORING as you drill STONE, STONE, STONE and then finally, please god, a tiny pill of ORE d. it's more BORING as you drill towards a BLUE OUTLINE e. it's BROKEN so that in Hard you have around a 50% chance you will never actually find some ore at the location indicated. f. TIME of drilling, and YIELD of material is COMPLETELY MESSED UP. Tiny PILLS of ORE give you almost half the yield of all the MASSIVE amounts of stone you had to remove to get to it. and lastly: " The server admin can adjust the radius of the deposit " Uh, how is that possible in SINGLE PLAYER GAMES??? --- don't build things you CAN ONLY FIX ON A CUSTOM RUN SERVER. you were ahead of most of the other games with replayability, and with this single effort have fallen to completely unplayable in Hard.
============== "What do you even mean by "Hard?" There are two settings that effect mineral deposits abundance and density, right?" Now slow down and look at the Custom settings and Hard will become visible. The change is NO SCANNER and makes the game nearly completely unplayable. If you doubt that, try a couple Hard starts "just for fun" and see if you can actually collect some of the three basic ores to start a game. can't can ya???
==== Yeah, used to LOVE the replayability of Hard starts: scramble before sunset of day 1 to gather enough of each of the ores to start a base and get a motorcycle. Always a varying challenge with where the ores fall. Learned to head East for first ores, then if missing some, head West to extend daylight as much as possible when searching for them, dodgin enemy POIs along the way. Not so much anymore with late 6.x releases, but a few releases back ores were guarded a bit more, and you often had to race in on a final needed ore and dig down to safety while under attack from a drone. Then, if you manage to escape and build your base, with just a motorcycle, charge under the drones and run from building to building in a friendly POI to land the desparately needed Neodymium ore to build a REAL mining tool... great fun and have endless scenarios I've faced playing this way that I figured my way out of, usually including escaping from the POI with your Neo under the fire of 3 drones!!! Now, totally broken. In nearly every Hard start, I can't actually collect one of the 3 ores before running out of drill fuel because I end up with a CAVE about 6 meters in every direction around the ore indicator on the screen and NO ORE. Depressing.' EGS had arguably the BEST REPLAYABILITY (over ARK and 7 Day to Die...), but with this release they've totally killed it. Starting over is the LAST THING you ever want to consider in this design.
@brianmi , I have to agree with you regarding the old starts. I too enjoyed the tension of the first day and the push to get any kind of shelter up before the baddies came out as night fell. I played the first few in-game days on numerous Med/Default starts during experimental and found it much less intense. The starter bases really killed off that first day fear factor. Heck, I only had drones attack the starter base once in the first few days. Mining without a scanner, yeah, tried that a couple times, pretty silly, so learned to just hit boulders until I could make a scanner. Then discovered that the lake east of the starter base on Akua had a ton of prom stones, seaweed & boulders, so for the first few hundred ingots I'd just spend the first day underwater then wander back to the starter base. Zero stress. Omnicron was better due to the O2 pressure but once I figured out to just beeline for the admin station then spend a couple days around there mining boulders, well, not very tasking either. Never made it far on Omni due to the PV being basically unkillable. Should note that I was intentionally attempting to just let the new mechanics 'guide' the playstyle, rather than playing how I'd want to play. Sorry, wandered off topic a bit. On the mining. Now I just hit boulders and dive for prom stones for fuel to get started. Don't bother mining nodes until I have a scanner & build first HV, then just stand up on the cockpit and mine via drone. Only small risk while mining now is if a drone sneaks up on you. Which is readily avoidable. Personally I fall into the camp of, "please just reduce the amount of time I have to spend manually mining", but not too much, heh. So, since I started using the Scanner+HV+Drone method, mining is now faster for me I'm okay with the changes. Though I would prefer what was suggested earlier, if I understood the suggestion, which was combining the old & new. So on a no scanner start players could mine a near surface layer that looked & behaved like the old blobs, while deeper down there'd be these 'rich' pockets. Btw, I also played 7dtd & was a big fan (and hope to be again). But I really don't like the Trader Stations, since, for me, those made the early game so much easier. So while I don't have the same pressure point on the mining changes here that you have, I get how you feel in general.
You can freely edit the ...\Steam\steamapps\common\Empyrion - Galactic Survival\Content\Scenarios\ folder. Actually i will not recommend editing the default scenarios, copy for example "Default Multiplayer" to "Default Multiplayer - edited" new folder name. When starting a new game, just select that edited scenario. To edit it, first open Sectors\ folder and look inside the Sectors.yaml. Find the planet you want to edit and see what its playfield name is. Say Omicron planet links to NewDesert playfield name. Now in \Playfields\NewDesert\ folder is playfield.yaml for that planet type. Google will find guides to editing that file if you need. It's really same for SP as for servers. Other than that you can always open admin console and cheat a little if you feel like the game isn't working the way it's supposed to, or is giving you unreasonable situation. Plenty of commands to help out. It's alpha version afterall.
