No problem. We may get argumentative when facing assumptions, but that's just normal from curious minds.
Possibly, but that seems more like a pipeline issue than an brick wall. A few extra numbers shouldn't be that big a deal.
I would like to see some sort of compromise. Maybe an auto welding of 2x2x2 blocks into 1. To deal with excessive HP, instead of 8 blocks worth of HP you get 4 blocks worth. I think most folks would not see a 2x2x2 blocks damage area as excessive no matter which side you are on. Splash damage may already hit a 2x2x2 area anyway. I don't really want to lose the single block damage either, but I think slightly larger cubes could be a good compromise.
It's weird that no one picked up on this, it's the ideal compromise, if you could merge every two to three blocks, like blocks that form a slop or the windows that form a canopy, you'd still have the per block damage (it's not that big of a difference if you lose one or two blocks) while it will cut the block count by half, which can make a huge difference on a giant battleship. Bravo sir !
This is similar to what I mentioned in posts #77 and #98 on the present thread, and I also mentioned it in another discussion. I got used to absence of reactions.
Sorry man, I did not see them. I tend to skip pages when discussions get too technical or when a wall of text appears. Kudos to you too then.
What about more complex shapes than simple cubes? A 2x2x2 block is rarely a format i would even need anywhere when building a ship tbh. Single Block dmg is the last thing i care about tbh. I'd rather be able to build bigger and more complex ships, maybe even using SV blocks instead of big CV blocks, while keeping the dimensions of CVs. (merging should make this possible imo)
I undersand you don't care about the per block damage but some people do (I am agnostic on this subject, I really don't know if I care or not) that's why we're looking for a good compromise. Why does the shape matter ? a cube or a rectangle or a traingle what's the difference ? the real parameter is how many cubes we should be able to merge, I think three is a good number because most of the shapes are made with three blocks or less.
I was just trying to suggest a simple shape that could reduce 8 blocks to 1 and be coded quickly. I am sure there are others besides the rarely used cube. I did see the suggestions about more complex shapes, but I assumed the more complex versions would require more complex coding. I certainly wouldn't be against adding more and more shapes as time allows of course.
To be honest it is awful ideas This will add a lot of dumb thing such as destruction of whole shis after hit into only his little part or will make raiding of ship realy difficult and weird. Why i should destroy whole ship if i can destroy only thrusters, kill crew, destroy clone chamber or generators and take my loot. Also making ship a full structure will totaly disable opportunity of upgreading your ship and also will make disassembling just ridiculous. The second idea not so crazy as second but i think that each stuff should carry out its own function without any weird additions. Why do generators should create energy shield if the “shield generator” ™️ can de added in the game?
Please correct me if i have missunderstood, but wasn't someone suggesting to merge several blocks into a 2x2x2 block? My objection was that i almost never (or very rarely) use a 2x2x2 shape in most of my creations. To me it would be highly unlikely to use a 2x2x2 or even bigger solid block frequently. I could see use for wall like structures. Maybe something like a 4x1, 10x1 or 5x5 or 5x10 would make sense imo. Of course this is pure personal taste. I really don't see much hope for this, tbh. The devs seem to be reluctant to add some normal blocks that are missing/needed by many ppl. (corner small for ex.) But i agree, it would be helpful to have premade bigger structures, but i think these shapes are simply too specific to be used in most cases. Thrusters and other devices wouln't be part of the merging process anyways. Merging wouled only affect Blocks, nothing else. Also a ship/base wouldn't magically vaporize if the hull reaches 0 Hitpoints anyways. It would rather be disabled or simply loose it's power. (This could have been discussed at a much ealier point if ppl. wouldn't have been so negative toward the merging idea in the first place.) As stated about 100 times by now, the only real drawback would be that you wouldn't be able to blow holes into the hull (but i wouldn't be so sure about that too, depending on how the game engine handles solid objects. Maybe if Hull reaches 0 Hitpoints, following hits could create a hole in the hull, i don't know.) If you had read the suggestion completely you would have seen that you would be able do de- merge the structures again (game loads original BP), modify it to your liking, save it afterwards and then re-merge it again. The point of this whole suggestion is to reduce CPU/GPU load in order to allow much higher view distances, bigger and more complex ships and more of everything (except for destroying individual blocks). Also battle damage could be added via damage decals, plasma fire effects and similar techniques (which look way better than removed blocks anyways in my opinion). Thanks. PS: Please excuse if i sounded rude.
I still think that your suggestion is bad. On your words it should simplify game but now i see only new difficulties which will be created. The developers (by my opinion) should spend their time on more important things because ideas from your suggestion will not develop game but just change already existing things (which work probably enough). If devs add stuff like yours the empyrion risks to share “7days to die”s fate bacause of devs changing allready existing stuff and have not enougt time to create something new. Sorry my grammar. I hope it doesn’t create too much misunderstandings. =)
I don't think it would be wasted time at all, since it would allow the game to become much bigger in scope than it is possible now. I would rather see it as a basis for a enhanced development of EGS to become a much bigger and greater game than it was even possible with the game we have right now. One example: They actually had to reduce weapons range in space to 660 meters because of heavy strain of computers in battles. If the game wouln't need to calculate every single block, but instead consider each ship as one unit, the game had much more ressources for other things like greater view ranges, more/bigger ships, Planets, a much bigger galaxy, you name it. It would basically free resources for every other aspect of the game, only for the cost of not being able to shoot holes into Bases and CVs. To me that's a rather small price. Of course we cannot know if this feature would take much dev time or not, but i don't think it is our job to speculate about this aspect since we have no way to know.
However i sure that there should be another way to optimize game without cutting down anything else. For me as for player the fully destroyable ships are the important. It makes feel them not like giant textures but real ships which can crush and destroyed and torn on the pieces. Making them non-destroyable is a too radical cutting down of the game. Sorry but i think that the fully destroyable ships is crusial for space sandbox game. Optimization doesn’t cost so much.
So to you it is actually more important to blow holes into some ship than to have a decent weapons range (more than 660 meters) or have a greater view range than 4 kilometer (?) Weapons limitations would be unimportant and it wold allow decent sized Starships and Starbases (not be limited at 300 meters). Also, merging would eliminate the "need" to put 30 layers of armor on a ship, just to get a decent protection (explained somewhere). Also to me fighting is just one aspect of many in this game and Block count it is the one aspcet that limits every other aspect in the game (sry, my bad english). It's basically 1 minor feature vs 999 others that are more important imo. A sandbox game is: There's no hint that block based creations are part of a sandbox game. Please explain what both have to do with each other (in your opinion).
I agree with Zyrax and several others. There are countless games out there where a ship has fantasy health. If I wanted to play them I would be. Empyrion stands out in that I can create a hole where I am shooting. That is appealing and if performance has to suffer for that since of realism than it is a small price to pay. I doubt any of us believe that we will ever see anything more in our life time than drone operated space travel in tin cans that could not stop more than a grain of sand. That, however, does not change the mechanics of our understanding. If I point a gun at a tire and pull the trigger than I understand there should be a hole in the tire not the headlight. This understanding does not change no matter how anyone tries to change the narrative. For decades we as players have had to accept generic HP pools for our fantasy games. Commonly in 3 parts = Shield, Armor, and Structure. I can list them for hours. Although most of us do not believe in or have debunked most fantasy narrative, we accept them not by choice but as part of necessity. However necessity has changed. Our graphic engines are now capable. It is just a matter of efficient coding. So the argument to reduce the game to generic levels is less an argument for performance and more for laziness. There is a growing tendency among players to avoid the generic and gravitate towards a realistic, and more immersive experience of game play. Empyrion is on the right track currently with localized damage. It is my strongest hope that they continue on their current path.
All valid points. Then please could you teach devs how to increase view range to at least 20 Km and have Weapons range at least 10 Km. And please don't toast anyones CPU when 20 players fight 20 other players in their CVs each one using 100 minigun turrets on his ship at the same time.
Simple re-represent actual distance in the game while maintain the current ratio of gun range. It is a game and our characters live on 8k wide worlds which are normally less than 100k apart. It is also Early Access which means playing around with they code and base values to find out what works. I agree that data efficacy is vital, but this game has a long way to go before reaching the finish line. I am confident that the Davs are capable of addressing/improving/resolving = map sizes, gun ranges, and visual renders distances before the full release and without sacrificing the features that set Empyrion apart from other games. However: I expect it will be one of the last things they do because it is far easier to flesh out these issues in a limited environment. Note: I challenge anyone to visually spot anything smaller than a foot ball field at a distance of 20k in space. Unless it is emitting light or heat it is virtually indistinguishable to the back ground of space. Most space based radar is mono directional meaning if your not pointed at it you cant detect it. Omnidirectional radar is so shot in space that it is only useful for docking. By all means look NASA collision reports. If they could avoid hitting lost tools and space junk with sensors they would not spend so much tracking ever floating piece of scrap from the ground.
Some ppl. may build ships and bases bigger than 75x110 meters (which is pretty easy imo). If it is not a small object (smaller than 10 meters) you will be able to see it in space since there's no atmosphere. Btw, the game should have a targeting lock mechanism somewhen in the future, you won't aim and fire your turrest manually at your targets. At least not at a distance of 10 km, unless it is really big. The problem is not just the individual blcks, but also impact of bullets and other kinetic energy on each individual block of a structure (in a battle situation there could be 1000s of them at any second impacting on a hull. To be honest i don't care much about it, as long as they don't keep weapons and view range at such a rediculus range.
Actually visual range is space really sucks. It is about as fun a spotting a bat in the pitch darkness of a new moon. No matter what your are looking for both you and the target are moving, even if it emitting light or reflecting the sun, the object is usually indistinguishable from stars until you get close to it. You would think that you could notice movement but normally not until you are right on top of the object. Navigation in space is done because we know where most things are not because we can see them. We detect unidentified object more often by heat signatures rather than visual or radar equipment, and it is not that hard for two object to travel at relative speeds that exceed the average bullet. Micro meteoroids are the bane of actual space faring. A grain of sand can travel fast enough to penetrate the hull of our current space station, and unless it has big enough brothers accompanying it to be detected, there is no warning. Imagine what a marble could do. The international space station has exceeded 1000 patches, with the largest hole hitting a solar cell and being big enough for the cosmonaut to stick his entire helmet through. The reason they are not all sucked into space is because all gasses have a viscosity. It takes a significant amount of time for a pin hole to offset the volume of gas in the space station. When there is a breach they can often cordon off a compartment and attempt to recoup as much of the O2 as possible before patching it. When they do detect a threat and can not avoid they rotation the station to limit damage. Better a solar cell than a compartment. The point? Fantasy game will never fully represent real life because real life is boring. We will likely never have armor on space ships because it is pointless. Any space based weapon will tare thought the thickest of armors. If we engage in space warfare it will come down to who hit who first. Combat will be more like sub warfare. The idea of having fighters in space is just not practical due to the range of engagements. The same thing applies for counter measure such as flak or flares. Flak is not going to stop a missiles traveling at speed relative to mock 10 and a missile is not going to be able to turn fast enough at the range of a flare to matter. So try to keep the concept of Fantasy in your mind and the type of game your playing. It is kind of pointless to complain about your character just standing around if you are playing a turn based game. Empyrion is a sandbox space game with one if its strongest features being localized damage. It has a low to averaged learning curb unlike Hellion or SE. And being Early Access a lot of game features are just place holders until the Dev team can fully flesh out the code.
