The plan for the game is to open up an infinite number of solar systems, so once you exhaust the ore in one you move to the next.
And honestly, if all or even most planets have crashed ships, alien towers, or other sorts of POIs you can strip, mining would hardly be necessary after the first planet.
My comments refers to P-A 3.2.1: I think that there should be more than one way to skin a cat. For example, there can be a silicon ore, but there may also be a way to tease some silicon out from normal sand and crushed rocks. Perhaps the time or energy it takes to refine a low quality ore (sand in this case) will be higher, and so the player will be forced to make strategic choices such as whether to (a) go hunt for silicon ore using his SV and potentially save processing time down the road, or (b) refine the sand knowing that its more inefficient but more certain in the begininng. This allows for a more flexible game and perhaps more variety in the game opening. Second, not all resources need to be ore in deep mountains. I remember that in P-A 2.0, there was a silicon deposit inside a big piece of meteorite, and I love that. Similarly, perhaps some resources can be programmed to spawn under lake bottom or must be refined from water directly (sort of like purified water or oxygen now). Some pairing with geographical features will make it more enjoyable, as I can mentally tell myself, "Look - go find those blackish looking meteorite for x". Third, I agree with many comments in this thread and beyond that the energy regime can use more diversification. That may be best to implement together with a research system, so that the better energy items are available only for very established sites. A more diverse set of options, such as getting fuel cell power from water, can also add to the strategic richness of the game. (I.e. - "okay, now I don't have many fuel packs. Let's at least defend this lake so that I can make fuel cells.") Lastly, I love the procedurally generated worlds, but as it stands, the initial chores of setting up a game seems too much for the wide audience. I have played through perhaps 10 worlds, and spawn-checked perhaps another 15 or so. There have only been a couple of cases where I am next any resources at all. Right now, the first two or three in-game days are boiled down to (1) get a large constructor created, (2) fix your escape pod, and (3) hunt for silicon and neodymium. In a couple of cases, the closest neodymium and silicon are behind well defended towers that are well defended versus what you can afford on your escape pod, and the game was quite difficult to finish. I would love to see some ground rules written into the generating procedures - perhaps in the Civilization 5 style that the player is programmed to start next to a resource or next to a small ship wreck (P-A 2.0 style, but much smaller in scale)? I think it will be much more enjoyable if the starting resources will force the player to make different strategic choices. A silicon start, for example, allows me to more heavily arm my escape pod before the first flight; an iron start allows me to build a larger base before venture out; and a good ship wreck may force me to go militaristic in hour 1 and take down the drones. Also, this may not be "resources" per se, but related to the starting round, may be it makes sense to give the player a choice of what they start with, in the Beyond Earth style? This can save a lot of "grind" time in the beginning and allows for more strategic variety. Here are some starts that can make sense: 1) Skilled Pilot - Your escape pod lands intact. You have more fuel packs but less ore resources. 2) Sponsored Colonist - You start with the Base Starter Block. You have less ore and fuel resources. 3) Energy Paranoid - You start with twice as many neodymium pallets as others. 4) Crew Geologist - You are guaranteed to start with two different mining resources within 200 meters from your landing site.
You obviously put a fair amount of time and thought into this post and I think that is great! I agree on a number of point, such as what generally goes on for the first few days, and the concept of pairing resources with terrain features. Where I have to disagree is the need for close ore deposits. I have just started a game and after about a week of game time I've pretty much conquered Omicron and not yet done any mining (other than rock dust, but that can be found anywhere). Using the pod with a rocket launcher attached is all you need to take down any tower or base (OK, an assault rifle is also needed), and the plunder will keep you going well long enough to get a very good start. Done correctly the towers rarely get a shot off. I really do like your alternative starting situations ideas. I think I've pretty much mastered the current start parameters. And as is usual with most of my posts I'm speaking from the single player point of view. It would be interesting to have different starting conditions.
Thanks! I don't disagree with the fact that currently you can go militaristic and take down the towers to survive. But there are some items that are now in the player's flavor - incomplete drone AI, unlimited SV ammo, and bountiful loot from destroyed drones and enemy towers, to name a few. I think whether this hunt and salvage style can stay in the long term depends on how they rebalance the game going forward. And also, it also goes back to the point that this can limit play style a bit. Though yeah, I recognize that we are in early access and they are adding more stuff down the road. I just want to put this out in the open to express the view that, on top of the nice stuff they are doing to the universe and the planets, the initial game play still feels like a work-in-progress.
I'm not really in favor of immediate resource deposits, but it does seem like there needs to be code that ensures some iron or promethium within a given distance of the player's escape pod. Hopefully before or when planets get larger, right? Or 'renewable' energy resources need to be exploitable fairly early on in the game.
Agree 100%. Spawning literally next to the starting location (i.e. Civ 5 style) probably will be less fun, except if we really get the starting profile choices like discussed above. I think your way sounds better. They just need some rules to make sure that randomization won't put you in the most barren spot on the planet. Right now after getting the escape pod functioning, I usually have 20 fuel packs left over. It will be frustrating if you can't find the promethium within a reasonable time period. This is also partially why tying specific ores to specific topology features will help. That way instead of blindly flying around, I can at least search for [topology features tied to promethium] and be a bit more intelligent about it.
tied to all the starting condition discussion, perhaps the devs are withholding some sort of a narrative from us? If assaulting an alien base is what is meant to the be start, may be eventually we will have a full back story, and the game will start us with some ammo and tell us to take out an alien base? That can be a valid and interesting start, but put a very different flavor to the game.
Yes, I agree given the premise (and I think it's totally valid) that there is a lot of game balance yet to be done, as well as completing things like drone AI. With that in mind they would definitely need to make sure there is at least iron and promethium a reasonable distance away. And probably magnesium and copper, although probably not in great quantity. The same with access to water.
actually, this leads to an interesting question - how do the devs expect things to pan out if we lose our only base? In other similar games, you could perhaps get yourself back out by collecting resources with your fist, but in here it seems like that you are screwed. Perhaps ultimately everyone needs a transport HV, filled with ingots and fuel packs, hidden in a remote corner of the world?
They're not withholding a narrative. It's been posted on the site itself for ages: http://empyriongame.com/story/ That said, it is kind of hidden in the menus, so perhaps the Devs should post it on the forums and sticky it somewhere? Well, ideally your Capital Vessel should fulfill the role of a base, so losing a planetside base won't be as much of an issue in the game once you're beyond the initial planet and star system. Seeing as you're supposed to be exploring the Andromeda Galaxy looking for Empyrion and whatnot, most resources are probably going to be directed at expanding and enhancing your Capital Vessel. Losing a CV will probably be game over. The real question will become: "How do you avoid being stranded on a planet?" And the only answer so far is, as you suggest, backup caches.
Resource availability should not be the concern. But resource management should be entirely up to the player, and if he fails at that, it's no one else's fault. Using up all the resources on a planet (however unfeasible that is) constitutes a failure to survive. Setting out without any recourse in the event of catastrophe constitutes a failure to survive. In a survival game, these are considerations that need to be made and carefully balanced against the current situation. This is why the developers have continued to refine the amount and types of materials you begin the game with, and the location of vital resources, in the interest of balance. They want to make sure you have what you need to get going (that's the point of an escape pod, after all) and after that... you're on your own. If you use all your iron and promethium making a massive CV and run out, that's a matter of priorities, not game balance.
Some excellent points. One must prioritize use of resources, first for survival, and once that is taken care of, preparing to leave the system and make your way back to civilization! This is also one reason I don't like the idea of in-ground ore replenishing. Part of survival is making the best use of limited resources and then seeking new sources. In fact, while typing this it occurred to me that maybe there are already TOO many resources in the game. I can see having just enough to get a minimal CV together that is just good enough to make the jump to the next system where further construction continues. Think about it. If you have enough to make a complete CV, maybe a couple of SV's, a base or two, then what next to keep your interest? Building a huge BA or CV for no other reason than just to do so (in single player and multiplayer games) shouldn't be the end-all of the game. If and when PVP get's introduced, well that's an entirely different issue. I'll say it here, and will probably repeat in other threads, that I'd like to see a configuration driven game where such things as resource density can be set at the start of the game. This should make everyone happy!
Well, that's the deal. There's currently no way to replenish oxygen or water in space, so on your journey to Empyrion you'll have to make some stops on the way if only to not suffocate. With the alien towers and drones, it seems reasonable to say that we'll also encounter other species in space who may not be friendly. At best, this will require energy and ammunition to be replaced. At worst, significant repairs and reconstruction. The game's supposed to be about a journey, and there are going to be more obstacles to survival than just resource management. Whether or not each system will be independent, or worse, parts of an organization that will eventually start actively tracking and hunting the player is still speculation. That said, as long as we get some more durable blocks and functioning CV turrets, bring it.
Hi! Just a very quick feedback (did not read entire thread): a) Playing the game for a vew hours now and I feel like mining is getting pretty old pretty fast. In my opinion its ok that you have to gather resources somehow but i would prefer a much higher mining speed. b) More possibilities to "unstuck" yourself would be great. For example when you are running ot of fuelpacks its getting very difficult as you need energy to produce more fuelpacks. Maybe add a feature to the generator to generate little amounts of energy through muscle power? Otherwise its really good for a prealpha thx and keep it up
a) Yeah, it does. Some sort of automated mining might be nice. So I agree with this one. I suspect there is a plan for this (I seem to recall seeing an image somewhere on the site or forum showing a mining rig). b) It's called resource management. So I have to disagree with this one. With the new increase in Promethium availability you just need to make sure you have a few spares tucked away for emergencies. I see this a part of the game.
I wonder if the game will eventually have a trading system, either with NPCs or other players, to let us balance our resources. That way some of the higher rank yet common blueprints and artefacts can be traded too. It may be a trading station in space?
Update after some more hours played: a) I learned that you can press both mouse buttons to speed up the process. I dont know if thats a bug or a feature but I like it. Also, you get a lot of resources from the crashed ships stations etc. so mingin is not as tedious as i first thought b) Dont get me wrong it should only be a mechanic to prevent that you have to start all over again / do the game.dat thingy. For example generate 1 fuel pack per minute as long as you are jumping on top of the generator (just a stupid example)
