Experience Points, Player Level Progression and Tech Trees

maybe screen gaining with experinces can be visit not in centre but somewhere in corner

 

I see one problem that can be caused by two factors.

Basically, the needed levels to be able to build your first base makes it really hard to actually build the said base.

Either the XP required is too high or there is a lack of "event" providing XP. I'm out of bullets and I haven't reached level 3 to dismantle the ship. I expect to be out of everything before I can make a base. There are no resources nodes in my area to provide me with the mining XP either.

Maybe making the basic tool always available, as well as the basic required structure to survive and providing enhanced versions with the levels. But right now I'm seeing a very easy to reach bottle neck with the current requirements if your starting location is not "optimal".

Side note: Patch wrecked havoc on the game shortcuts, for example, turning main power on/off became U+Y instead of Y.

 

Since it needs testing here's just my initial opinion:

I think having some level / xp mechanic in the game is nice. As well as a techtree. But looking at the current system it seems too artificial for me about the techtree.

E.g. Why do I need to gain XP to build a chair, a bed etc.? Being able to develop better tier thrusters, advanced constructors, better weapon tiers etc. makes sense to me, but copilot chair or bed should be something you can build right from the start. And to be honest I would have preferred to gain new tech not by advancing a techtree but by looting from tech schematics from aliens.

And I had expected that leveling allows you to select some perks like better health, faster reloading, do more damage with headshots, hacking an alien core, last longer without food, need less resources to craft something, understanding alien tech etc.

About the xp counter I think too it would be better at the side of the screen instead over the enemies head.

 

Hi Folks
You wrote, that in old savegame the exp. Level is set to max. I loaded my savegame with a complete base und my techtree = 0 also my exp. Level. That´s frustrating....

 

Level 5 for the small constructor with a 20xp per gather with a requirement of 625 for the first level is way too long. That's a damn lot of gathering to be able to do basics. I'm not expecting reaching level 5 in less than an hour; an hour gathering plants.

 

Instead of writing a long post with the same content: I wholeheartedly agree with this guy over here!

 

I Agree with Rv3 as well. Due to these non optimized rules and XP values to get higher tech, it will take long hours doing basci stuff before you can start building bases and vessels.

In my opinion, experience and techs could be left for next releases, the best focus approach would be to improve multiplayer experience and fix lags and bugs, where clients flying vessels get delayed and cannot follow the host's position while flying CV or SV.

 

i must disagree, techtree is something what we really need, becouse, everybody on start making SV and fly away. Child must first making first steps too before it can run. So, im in to techtree. Maybe in 1st lvl we can make some very basic (melee) weapon, to gain some food to survive, when we out of ammo

 

I do not care for this tech tree idea at all... Instantly I find myself not wanting to play.... It takes long enough just to get started and now you want to make it even more difficult?? WHY? On top of that it makes no sense!!! Once you make an advanced constructor there should be no limit to what you can create as long as you have the required resources. Bad idea! As other ppl said there isn't enough to get xp from in the beginning so you have basically just made this game more tedious and less fun.... Not the update I was hoping for.
Since we are backing this game perhaps you developers should have us( the community) vote on what you will concentrate your efforts on for the next update. Im sure MOST of the people would agree that the multiplayer aspect of this game needs the most attention then the solar system. Not some silly skill tree. IMO Empyrion can do just fine without a skill tree only there to hinder progress.

I have such high hopes for this game please don't ruin it with things that take away from the fun factor. This update isn't adding to the fun factor. It has taken away some fun in one fell swoop.

 

I agree with your opinion, a tech tree should be avaliable or any other XP system non tree like. The issue is that the rules and XP amount should be reduced at smaller levels. As another user replid, this might impact in the gameplay time required to get constructing and turn it more tedious.

Another point would be the development's priorities, the tech tree or another form of skill should exist, but in my opinion there are other functionalities in the game that should come first, like fixing multiplayer lags or faster orbit entrance, as a best practice of project developing, so that in next releases there is enough time and effort to focus on XP planning or at least trying to accomodate the requests fo XP system. My opinion at least.

 

maybe you forget, this game is SURVIVAL, so hard is one thing of survival aspects. Techtree looks very good, maybe needs some changes, but its a very great idea. I like it and many of of like hard game. If you only shooting or something like this, maybe you can try playnig serius sam or DOOM

 

Initial Impression :
1. Lvling is pretty balanced
2. Constructor menu is not overwhelming with items (which is a good thing to start with)
3. Overall a good System
Suggestion :
I am not like the lvling up the player.. player attributes like health, Combat, Science Knowladge etc should lvl up(like @Morkar said).. and player can learn technology form the alien tech (Science Station, I guess you guys already considered that).. tech, weapons etc can be unlocked with unlock point like now, but there should not be any lvl restriction.. e.g some can get all SV tech first bypassing all other techs(like me who love exploring more than base building).. those who love combat can focus on weapons and have all the weapons without having knowledge of base building..Every attribute gain xp and gain lvl when that attribute related thing done more often(like combat skill get upgrade when fighting more).. and each attribute lvling up give some amount of point to unlock new tech(from any branch)...
Edit:

Though this game focusing on survival..devs are said that they want to combine " space simulations, ego-shooters, construction games and survival games" which is a delicate balance to reach, so devs have to listen to those who wants other aspects of the game rather than survival only(I am sure they listens too), but the community also have to learn , not to silent / bash opinions which are saying that this game is focusing more on some aspect and less on other...if we all can get constructive feedback on how to incorporate all those element in the game without hindering the other aspect..then this game would become truly unique..

 

I like the idea of a tech tree. And leveling is pretty easy. I mined some promethium and cobalt and i'm level 5 now and can start building my base.
But personally i'm not interested in the exact amount of xp i'm gaining. I would suggest a XP Bar in the bottom left corner.
Just the techtree for the deco objects seems a bit pointless to me.

 

So I've been playing around with the techtree for a bit and here's some early feedback. Please note that I'm writing this with the intention of helping the devs improving the game

Items in techtree for the sake of filling up the techtree
Right now it feels like the devs threw every single item into the techtree for the sake of filling up the techtree but that's not how it works. Even though we're playing a game and we don't want a real life simulation I wouldn't mind a bit of realism.

So What would I be ok with? Well, grant me the ability to build a standard drill. Once I've been digging around my character will, in time, figure out effective and less effective ways to mine with the drill which could lead to building improvement on the drill itself; granting the ability to build a drill 2.0 which collects resources faster. Now THAT is something I would seriously consider putting points in and perhaps ignoring another item for a bit longer.

Picking flowers and digging around enables me to build a gun?
If I'm playing an RPG and decide to swing around a big ass 2 hander I'd expect the game to give me points for that. Specifically, 2-handed points I can spend to improve my 2-handed skills.

I find it very strange that by doing a few simple things like picking up some flowers and digging a hole I'll suddenly enable myself to build stuff like a gun and a drill. Why? How did those actions have any impact on my knowledge of building stuff? It makes zero sense.

What does make sense and what would I find acceptable? I can accept that using a gun will give me "gun points" (increasing your knowledge of weapons because you're using them). The same can be done for food and such.

My reasons to build a HV just got reduced to zero
To build a SV or HV I need to spend points. The HV was already underrated and less useful compared to the SV. Now I'm being forced to invest in either the SV, HV or some points into both. I immediately asked myself: "Why the hell would I put ANY points in the HV, since that means it'll take longer before I can build an SV?".

Now I'm saying saying the unlocking of SV/HV needs to be combined. Sure, that could be a solution but I like to think that this is simply another reason to rethink the current HV/SV. Before we had a techtree people were already asking what the use of a HV is. This ain't helping

Unlocking decorative items at the cost of items that have actual use?
Lastly, I really dislike decorative items like beds 'n such require actual experience points. You're now forcing players, at some point, to invest points into something 'useles' while there's loads of useful stuff that actually does something for me. I'll either end up unlocking these things once I have everything that's actually useful or never, if we don't get enough points to unlock everything. Either way, the points for decorative items shouldn't be in the same pool as the points that we use on useful items.

@ the devs: request
I believe your reasoning/insight which led to the techtree would help us a lot in giving you guys feedback. At first glance it makes no sense to me why I'd be able to build a CV cockpit at level 5, at the cost of 7 points, while a simple passenger chair unlocks at level 10 and costs 10 points. A chair is a much more basic item, far easier to construct so I can only asume there's a good reason why you can unlock this much later.

Now I don't mind giving detailed feedback but it'll be based on what I know and that's most definately less than what you guys know

 

There is not enough of points (500) to get all the tech when you are at the level max 20. So if you want more items, you need to transfer in creative and go back...

 

I am not interested in your misguided suggestions Bender. I love empyrion and have always wanted a game like this. I was posting my Opinion in hopes that the Developers would consider my thoughts. Not for you. I am well aware of what a survival game is about and just like everything in this world people have a difference of opinions.

If I already had all this tech before I crashed down to the planet in my escape pod, why, having a constructor, would I need a skill tree to relearn these items?? To me it just makes no sense and takes away.

 

Agreed. Alas there's always going to be people trying to burn down your opinion or telling you to 'go play another game' even when all you're doing is exactly what the devs asked; give your feedback.

Actually this was my initial reaction as well. Then I started thinking about my character. Who is this guy? All I know is that he's a guy (or girl, depending on what you chose) and he/she crashed on this planet. But what does he/she know about crafting items? Perhaps we're dealing with an accountant here who, during his trip from planet A to planet B got shot down by pirates and is now forced to suddenly survive without any actual knowledge about surviving, crafting and whatnot.

You're running with the assumption our character already knew all of this but does he? Just because you own and ride a car doesn't mean you'd know how to (re)build it after crashing it. I know I wouldn't know how to.

Long story short; I feel where you're coming from but this can easily be solved by adding a bit of background story.

 

What he said.
I dislike this so intensely I wouldn't have bought into the game if I knew you were planning this.
If I wanted to grind out meaningless levels I would play an MMORPG!

 

Me too, 359 hrs and I thought now I cannot even make the basics to repair my ship or base, create ammo for my existing items, create anyting at all effectively. However, picking the plants I had planted in my 'ponics and killing a few otuygh got me to lvl 7 in less than 10 minutes... fortunate that I am a packrat and don't throw much away so I had a stack of ammo and a large garden to pick!

I am excited about the idea of tech trees and believe that it is the way to go, but if the points that I have read on this forum and the steam community one are the case then I think it stops being a game and becomes work. The "work" should be reserved for extra things not the basics. Reduce the xp requirement for the basics to build a base and oxy/water, pistol/rifle and maybe the hover vehicle (in two minds about that), it should be harder to meet the requirement for the T2 and space specific items but the real "work" should be reserved for the nice to have such as alien tech schematics, extra health boosts as mentioned by other posts. After all it is survival not a space race.