Logistics, Virtual Toolbar, Modular Containers

Great Advice, Thanks!

 

Hey Hummel, thank you for responding and assisting! I've been able to play a bit more and here are some recommendations :
1) Right now, if I want to access the network, I need to either go to a logistics block (press F) and I have to use my mouse to connect it to "me" , this is one of the problems.
What I expect : I go to a logistics block and I am -automatically- connected. I also want a hotkey for the connection button (the plug)
OR : I expect to work within the network right away. Why wouldn't I want to work in my network at my Base or CV? In either case, an easier method would be great.

Another problem : Sometimes I want to move an item from my network toolbar to my personal toolbar. This is a tiresome exercise sofar. I need to go to a box, drag and drop and switcharoo it into my personal inventory. It would be great to be able to see BOTH toolbars and click and drag it.

Another problem : The switching around of the personal inventory default position (I know this is on to-do list right now, so thanks!)

2) Not when you have the most basic of HVs (talking start of the game) with basically a box and tier0 hover. I used the HV as an extended backpack so to speak. I had to put HV on TOP of the ore to be able to network it.
What I expect : I think this point seems to be addressed, as I recollect the range of the HV wifi seemed wider today. Just try it out for yourself, make the simplest of HVs (no drill etc.) and just use to pick up stuff.

3) See 1 (and thanks for the tip)

Thinking wider in scope, and how to solve UI problems :
Make things more visual in general is a great way to increase adoption of a UI system. In the longer term a schematic view of the network would be awesome. It would be great if I could SEE the logistics network and its connections. Maybe even drag it, move it around and connect it. Drop downs in general are a bit Meh in interaction design. Apart from the name, it doesn't tell you a lot. And as mentioned by someone, with autogrouping the name dissappears (PLEASE PLEASE RESOLVE THIS ISSUE)

If I could SEE the network, that would be great.

 

The new logistic system is way too complicated, that’s fact.

A hybrid system between the old one and this one may well be the way to go.

For example the constructors, cargo boxes, etc go back to the old system. You load them up and make/keep what you want.

I think you could also keep the wireless connection. Put a link icon inside the cargo containers, so you can link to that cargo container, but only that one. So that when you gather & it goes into that container, but anything beyond that. Is way too complicated for the average player.

“Devs, would you care to comment about this?”

 

Had an issue with the deconstructor yesterday: if powered it readily chews on anything from the input as soon as it is selected. I know this is the expected behaviour, but it breaks the established mind routine - take things from the box to inventory, open deconstructor, place things in the deconstructor in the desired order. Good luck misclicking your loot storage instead of a trash box..

Either it should deactivate on switching input (better safe then sorry!) or have small internal queue acting like a virtual toolbar - you got to decon these exact things in this exact order, but they are physically stored somewhere else. The later allows sifting through the containers while the decon is in progress.

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Same thought here.

The main issue, as I see it, is devs wanting massive feedback without ironing out the learning curve. Setting any infrastructure is always an overhead to the direct approach, different styles should at least coexist in the early game, with automation imposed only on high tier items like the AC. This way the player would learn how to use it in safe conditions some 5-10 hours in the game, leaving the first impression untouched.

 

I’ve had an idea, how about running the two systems running side by side.

Keep the old constructors, cargo boxes as they are, independent units.

Add a new branch of technology into the skill tree. Call it “Assembly line production.”

Then it would be up to the person to choose which system they want to use.

 

I've given it another thought - we need auto now because big/heavy things can't go to backpack, that breaks the "old way" at the very start. If only we had some way to move things around, like a single-entity cargo hauler (in line with motorcycle) that can move a constructor.. Being connected to it in the early game, we can have best from both worlds while escaping the impact of full wifi-storage deployment for time being.

The GUI at this point can be locked to the "player inventory" to the left with a choice of "cargo platform" and limited "self" inventories of the crafting devices to the right. Building from platform would require the use of virtual toolbar - and that guided sequence of one step at a time could be easy programmed into tutorial chapter, like "Rebuild the forward observation post" or so.

One variant of cargo platform could be not the separate entity, but the wearable mass-volume extender that sacrifices mobility for sheer power. Think of Starcraft SCV or Aliens power loader - a mechanical exosuit allowing large-scale construction (and fighting aliens with a drill maybe).
Another variant could be a special cargo drone, built as a separate device, replacing F5 drone when accessed (or even allowing the F5 drone itself), that can open containers and pick up limited mass (up to constructor) to its inventory, or using a virtual toolbar for this. Only logic to program here, basic mechanics are in the game already.

 

A quad bike with trailer.

I suppose it could be worked into the tutorials somehow, but in reality would people be happy with that?

I agree this could be sorted by some type of construction drone and console set up. You could even split it up into light, medium and heavy.

 

The new Logistic System adds some very much needed basic Automation to the game. Especially the Furnace functionality screamed for something like this.

Give it some time and it will become the new normal and people will see the new awesome things you can do with it.

Currently most of the people are either upset that they lost their Inventorys or confused with the new system.

@Devs how about being able to force lock the Player Inventory to apear on the left side, regardless of what was previously there? Basically a tickable option in the Gameplay Options to force the Left side INV to be only the players one, IF he opens it via individual Container or the Logistics UI. I still want to be able to decide afterwards what should be displayed on either side.

Consistensly the Connect Feature needs to be moved from the left side to the right side. If the player tries to connect to a Fuel or Oxy Tank, just display a message that the trageted Inventory on the right side can't be connected with(or gray out the Connect Button when one of these is selected).

Other than that can't wait for the part 2 Update, keep it up.

 

It would be nice if the cargo boxes, while I love the HP boost would possibly take less multi tool hits to brake down?

 

I shall answer my first question. Just wait for a new build that works the way you would expect, click to engage - click to disengage. So it turns out I had a bug, not a feature, but without knowing how it was intended to work how do you tell?

 

I'm just going to say it again to make sure it gets mentioned:

Mass/volume limits and the resulting specialization required means that we need to be able to carry HVs/SVs around with other larger HVs/SVs. Otherwise there's going to be a lot of runaround where you have to make multiple trips to get a hauler and miner to an ore deposit and then drive them back home separately. Something like this was really a prerequisite for mass/volume.

Yes you can use a CV but this runaround will exist until you get the materials needed to build a CV.

 

I did some testing and believe there are a lot of excellent ways to use the new logistics system.
One example:
input fridge and food processor near your crops, output fridge in your kitchen?!

There is a lot of re-learning involved but I am sure this will turn out a good thing like most other things added to the game in the past!

I was reading about people saying the logistics menu is upside down. After my attempt to use it I fully agree. Since I am the player I should be on the left side. Instead the player is on the right side and the container on the left. No matter how hard I try it just feels wrong the way it is. Sure I will probably get used to it but a good UI should follow the users workflow and not the other way around.
But I noticed the comment about possibly good news about it. So let's see if this is already history after the next update

 

You are not a slave, and we welcome all contributions and discussions for those that want to, but you don't have to.

But again you opted to buy an alpha game and therefore I would believe that you would want to contribute to the development of the game?

 

Or to call them to your position. "Up 100 - move to player - down 100" is a simple routine for SV that is parked under the open sky, and HV may go through pre-set navpoints. Besides that, all-to-all docking is a much requested feature, and I second this also.

 

The constructor layout can be improved. For most the eyes goes to the left when opening interfaces, several psychological reasons for that.

When to construct and access such a device, you then should meet the recipes at the left.
You see if something can be constructed or not, so do not need yet to check resources available.
The Construction Queue could then be placed to the right in the middle in one line, with input and output above and below, giving more items to view.
The input and output cargo can not be changed directly (yet), although can click on the small arrows to access the boxes though. But those arrows and selection drop-down could be put at the beginning of the heading, to reduce mouse movements.
Even better if in the middle is a column for buttons to cargo, a "favorite" list. Each button is a toggle between off and in and out.

Still an issue is info about items, where the windows goes too far down outside the view-able area.
Another issue with them is that info are missing, due to sloppiness not following templates.

 

at 9.0.2
Things that really annoy me.
1. When connected by wifi to my HV i can't fill up its fuel tanks?! Why does that make sense?- and i assume o2 tanks. even if i select activate for the fuel tank from the control panel it can't be done. I have to disconnect first.
2. I don't see a way to quickly switch between the connected toolbar and my personal inventory toolbar. I have to activate inventory, then scroll over with the bloody mouse and select the toolbar i want and then close inventory. If there is a secrete way to do this than please make it NOT so secrete.

edit: but please let me know what it is!

 

My perspective on it's "un-intuitiveness":

I sometimes lose track of where stuff is going.

Here's a scenario, I've just come back from mining with my HV-drill. I move a bunch of stuff around using logistics, Raw ore in to the proper container, processed ore, Competed stuff; Whatever - I reconnect the virtual tool bar now and do a little building. I go inside, oh my plants have grown, I'll just harvest my farm real quick. Press "f" to loot all my veggies. Walk to my fridge, press F. and there's no veggies in my inventory. OH RIGHT! I have my logistics connected to my HV. nope, Not in any of the 4 containers on my HV. Ok, now I need to switch to my base, and Flip through each box until I find my veggies I just picked up so I can put them in my fridge properly.

There's been many times, when I forget which Vehicle/Structure & container I'm actually connected to. So then I loot something. And WTF???? Where's My stuff now?

I feel like I never know where my materials are going to end up.

 

Just a little feed back.

Ok...I really hated the logistic system at first, why?... cause I'm an old dog and resist change .

Now that I've played with logistics and weight/volume I've come to appreciate the potential for this system/mechanics when once complete; especially when you finally add logistics' control over constructors, etc.

One thing that has been mention already but I'll bring it up again; Knowing multiple inputs are not a thing, I think the ability to stack multiple fridges similar to the way containers are, (if possible you could just make the container extensions work with fridges also), would help a great deal with the mix of perishables and non perishables; you've already made the fridge inventories larger and that helps. Having multiple FP/fridge setups just adds a lot of mouse/menu work, where stacked fridges would grow with your cold storage needs, and done in one stop.

Another Idea that I'm not sure is possible, is to be able to maneuver to the control(P) menu thru the F4 function.

I would suggest that the container controllers be available to unlock right at level one; and/or have the ability to use the ordinary cargo-container in the constructor as part of the recipe for the container controller the same as is done with weapons/drills when making the next level items.

I'm looking forward to when logistics(F4) will be the one stop shopping place.

By the way your tutorial is getting better.

 

By default, 'T' should toggle between your personal toolbar and the virtual toolbar.