They could at least reduce the effect maybe. So ships could move between 60-100% of their technical max speed. And remove the effect cargo has on this calculation. This means that some ships could have different max speeds, but you would never be stuck on a ship that couldn't warp or that would go way too slow.
Consider the worst case for a ship chase. Both ships are facing the same direction & both react (hit the gas) at the same time. Prior to the new 'acceleration dependent top speed' mechanic any CV v CV or SV v SV chase was an absolute stalemate; assuming the pursued just kept going in the same direction off into infinity & beyond! (heh). Cross class chases were determined by the different max speeds for each class; so an SV would always be able to either get away or run down a CV. And a CV could never force an SV into engagement. If we assume that the new top speed limited by accel bit is intended to address this, well we kind on need to know more about what exactly it's intended to address, right? Is it supposed to -always- allow a lighter ship to chase down a more massive one? Guess not since it doesn't do that. Can still make a massive CV that can hit max speed of 150 m/s. So there's no chance a purpose built CV interceptor could run it down; same max speeds. An SV could of course, it's max speed in 200 m/s. Combine with CPU costs and I guess it reduces what 'massive' means a bit, or better said, 'caps' the extreme. But Class Sizes could do that already. Early to mid-game, when resources are still a bit scarce, sure, you're more likely to have a, now, 'underpowered' aka 'not top speed capable' ship. Yet the law of unintended consequeces rears it's ugly mug again. What are a lot of folks going to do when they're rich? Have ships that can always hit max speed. Because the one thing we can all agree to is we don't have infinite time. Why 'waste' it crawling through space at 25 m/s? Leaving end-game ship chases pretty much as they were. Encouraging players to -not- turn CPU On. All that thrust spinning CVs like tops, even without RCSs. From what I've read, there's actually very little substantive disagreement across the last few pages. If read closely for desired game play.
Not really. even if we assume the chaser is heading directly at the prey and the prey is heading directly away from the chaser, it starts as a stalemate, but only stays like that until the prey accelerates in a new direction. Now the chaser CAN maintain or even close distance if and only if he can detect an intercept course. Computers can do it if fed doppler radar data. Humans by eye, not so much. The prey is almost certain to pull away especially if it adopts a continuously changing spiral acceleration.
Agreed @sillyrobot , hence the caveat about the 'same direction'. Gimme a sec, there was a post from a mod about this somewhere... found it. Hummel replying to MadRussian, https://empyriononline.com/threads/alpha-11-flight-model-cpu-docking.91263/page-4#post-375807 That was what I was recalling and 'how' I wrote my post. Really not meaning to beat up on em, but the top speed limited by accel doesn't insure the desired result. Hope that makes sense?
Would be nice if CPU simply replaced block limit for weapons... as it is it is just one more thing to state in blueprint's name (because t3 CPUs are too rare) and a major size limit. Space Engineers clearly did not got the memo) Large ships all have same speed limit there, smallships are slightly faster, but they are often useless for chasing large ships (too litle durability and they will be sitting ducks), engineer is also faster to be able to chase own ships. Yet SE face no issues with 'unlimited chase'. In rare cases where chase is nessesary it is question of acceleration, not of speed. Chasing something is actually dangerous, 1. because the target before you has space for manuver, but chaser does not. 2. because nothing stops target from leaving a mine behind and at SE's speeds even a simple stone can leave behind a wreck. P.S. Combat in KSP is Very fun. And I very liked Hellion's orbits and 'insane speeds' (if not for stupid decisions like deterioration and tiers of resources...) Space can be done both phycically right (including destructability) and enjoable it is just very hard thing to do.
Mass influencing top speed in space makes this the only (out of many) space games I play where I cannot coast without power to save fuel, which makes this game feel very unnatural to me. Even on a planet I should be able to keep top speeds (that are allowed on planets) by a modified fall without reverse engines activated. (lol...sometimes it is the only way to fly certain ships in some games) Getting up to speed, turning or stopping a big ship should take longer. I know others have said all this, but just adding my 2 cents. I just had a thought; maybe it's all those clouds of space dust we see slowing us down.
I respect your opinion; mine is that stalemate is a valid end in battle or gaming (chess anyone?). It may be an Idea to develop tactics in ambush, teamwork, etc.
Oh, I fully agree a stalemate should absolutely be possible. And agree w @sillyrobot s & others points about how the pursued has an advantage by making slight turns the pursuer may not notice and allow the pursued to escape, even if _slightly_ slower. I've been considering the new mechanics and trying to game out their individual & combined impacts, and factoring in what info is available to stated intent, and have been writing from the fuzzy results my brain has come up with. Imo there are other, more effective ways to address the 'issues', and also allow more freedom and less absolutes.
Most people have not experienced what it feels like to be On Fire, burning alive to death... does this mean it'd be a totally legit strategy to program the game so when Empyrion Players stand in Empyrion Fire, the resulting effect is for them to get Health & Stamina Regen for the duration of being in it while the Avatar is reported to be feeling the Body Sensations of 'holding a big fat Slimeball in a Bear Hug while traveling 17 Whizbangs per Meter?' causing them to giggle like tickled little children? Nope, not gonna happen... cause when one stands in Fire IRL for the first time, what it is that will happen has already been Scientifically Deduced... eliminating the need to 'Trial & Error' it to find out the answer. IRL, as in In-Game, it's US that have to live, work, & plan, around the Physics... we do NOT get to walk up to the Physics & TELL it what it'll do as if we're the Q from Star Trek... If it can't make sense for something in the game to happen then it can't make sense for it to happen & this DOES damage Immersion & thus Game Enjoyment. There's even a handy dandy TVTrope for measuring this... Willing Suspension of Disbelief! To be fair, different people have different thresholds & maps of thresholds of it... so the Devs will have to decide what thresholds to market to similar to Demographics... the Reality is Unrealistic Demographic or the Truth in Television Demographic... or they can Take a 3rd Option & actually dare to try to compromise. IMHO I vote for the last Action because it's most in the Spirit of the Sandbox. Alas, when Physics have so many holes in them trying to cater too much to the Reality is Unrealistic crowd, Unfortunate Implications result... P.S. RL Ignorance gets spoiled rotten fat & pandered to too damn much as is... it really doesn't need more... :/ (Save it for Fire for Effect Legit Uses, like Rule of Cool that doesn't obstruct Game Balance or such...) P.S.S. This world being so full of Reality is Unrealistic folk is a big part of why RL 'Magicians' are able to make such good livings off entertaining our Scientific Ignorance with their 'Fake Magic'. Alternative idea: Instead of Ship Stats focusing on "Speed", how about Speed be a Sub-Category instead to a new Stat... "Maneuverability"? How fast one can go is a Sub-Consideration in the grand scheme of things... sure one could Accelerate & Decelerate fast but in exchange they suck at Strafing, Fuel Efficiency, rotating, etc., or be able to strafe & rotate real well but take forever to push faster heavy load, or lotsa other things. Honestly fast Max Speed really would be mostly used by Smugglers, Racers, Scouts, & maybe Getaway Vehicles... not everything. IMHO Category Designations work best when they encompass the whole of a Subject, & specific areas of that Subject become 'Sub-Designations'. Now that I think about it, maybe some of our Balancing Troubles is that our Foundation for 'Balance' still has holes in it that could use more fixing before we resume trying to build upon it from there...? *Insert Thinking Emote here...* I'm still suspicious of a Tinfoil Hat level Conspiracy that the Devs are lying to us about the Space Playfields being made of "Vacuum", & in reality they've been made of something else... I have Code Named this mystery substance, "Celestial Void Soup"... Or, more likely, all the Devs don't wanna admit that they're F- at Science 101. (Maybe the old show "Bill Nye the Science Guy" never made it onto German or Finnish Airwaves...?) Ahh, the eternal struggle of "Truth in Television" vs "Rule of Cool"... can often look like a parallel between the eternal Nemesisdom of Fire vs Ice. Well... to be fair... plausibly, Inertia might hit harder on Big Dudes then Small Dudes, & the needed power to overcome might have a 'softcap' on how scaled up it can get...
in the gameoptions.yaml in the SaveGame directory > EnableCPUPoints: true / EnableCPUPoints: false Make sure your Server is Offline before changeing it
Yes that would be the best idea, if higher max speed was possible and playfields would be larger. So that heavier ships take really long tonreach topspead. Just in the system right now, the difference in acceleration is just to small. Most differences won't even be noticeable exept from the most furthest opposit end. And with the low top speeds in this game, a even slower acceleration will be no fun either. The group of people that are willing to accelerate for 20 min. straight before quitting the game might be surprisingly small.
Hey Pilots I have this small CV, the Mosquito Miner, but don't understand how it is calculated to 1'500'000 CPU The total in devices is about 300'000. Can anybody explain it?
Yes, 1 RCS, allthough it is not shown in the list Ok, deleted it, now it is like the total, about 270'000. 1.2 Million CPU for 1 RCS? Strange. Why don't they tell us, we shall remove all RCS?
game balance i`m just compling with that...redeseing all my ships concepts. I`m actually losing my first cv....the anaconda. Witch i build when i was on the starter planet...and i have strongly improve and optimezed after that....i have almost textured the whole inside...and i was still working on that when they give the sad annuncment.. Unfortunatley i cant move my ships thruster with out destroy the ship look....and due to the shape of the same anychange will effect is performance...so deelpy sad i have to give up my long date friend, and redesaing a new ship. who i had actually doing. But is very hard to comply with look, performance, and new fly system. As i say somewere the new flysistem and cpu togher work dreadfull. hope who my new ship will be nice as the previus one.
Not wanting to further derail this thread, but the vessel speed limit in space seems like a good candidate for a soft cap based on vehicle acceleration rather than mass. Since for technical reasons we need to have a cap, this would at least capture the feeling of faster ships being able to catch slower ones. This soft cap should be right at the limits of what the game engine can handle, with exponentially more acceleration needed as the cap is approached. The base speed in space could be approximately what it is now for CVs, with whatever thrust the vehicle has being added as a speed bonus on top. This means that even slow vehicles could eventually get up to a decent speed, but the speed bonus for a faster ship means they would eventually be able to catch up (and would definitely accelerate much faster). This cap should be identical for all vehicle classes in all directions (including HVs). I don't see any problem with allowing HVs to act as SV's in space given they use more or less the same thrusters, just balance them so in general they'll be much slower than SVs and be easier targets, but still viable for asteroid mining and later in the game could be built into flying tanks/boarding craft with the combat steel. The cap would be calculated dynamically based on the mass of the vehicle relative to its current thrust. The maximum acceleration value in any of the directions defines the speed limit, so vehicles could cut thrust and pivot around to shoot a pursuer without magically slowing down, and to encourage players to build ships that have a lot of thrust in the primary movement direction instead of just spamming thrusters all over.
So I guess that you finally agree with my proposal, to which you opposed in that lenghty discussion we had not long ago ? 20 minutes to accelerate to 300 km/h seems a bit long though. I would stay within the "instantaneous top speed" up to 1 minute max, which is more than enough time to make crucial decisions regarding battle or evade situations. But having different max speeds for different ships, in space, makes no sense. I feel some players see the game like some kind of police vs bandit car pursuit where they need to "catch up" with their opponents, but that shows there is no thought regarding weapon ranges and efficiency that can change the whole meta, along with different flight dynamics. A big "Star Destroyer" can very well accelerate to the same top speed as a small fighter, but its "strength" is not in speed or maneuverability : it should be armor and devastating weaponry. So even if the "smaller, more agile ships" manage to get a little advance in the race, they still can get obliterated by a few gun shots even at a distance. The weapons range and efficiency could be made so players don't want to get too close to each other, unless they have a real mobility advantage to take that risk.
This is exactly what's in the game already, including the part about not slowing down when rotating (so long as thrusters aren't fired). Whether you call it a mass-dependent max speed (at constant thrust) or an acceleration-dependent max speed (more technically correct), it's the same thing, and it needs to go.
So far I really like the Cpu system it makes you really think how you wanna design a ship and it really makes you consider how to build your PVP war ship. Only thing I would like to see is stacking CPU tiers. Meaning if You have a T2 cpu on a SV with 15000 points, And You install a T3 with an additonal 40000 points they stack to give you a total of 55000 cpu. Or if you decide you dont neee the computer Power the T3 Can be ran alone with only 40000 points. Etc Etc Etc. As it sits right now theres really no point in leaving the T2 on instead simply recycle it and make it into a T3. But if they stacked I would now have the option to keep it installed and Add or decide to remove it and make it into a T3. Just a thought
