Warning! This post can blow mind of PvE players, so be careful! If you are far-far away from PvP - better don't read it. Also you must understand PvP is all about combat effectiveness. I don't care about beauty, shapes, etc. My PvP vessels have only one mission - win fights. So, time to give some feedback about A11 and CPU stuff. First of all i wanna represent my (or my team - OPG) vessels and then tell about it. In current moment i play on New Age server and here are my SVs: Quadrix for A10, Cube Fighter for A11. They got white texture to see shape better, originally they are black. Cube Fighter designed as top T4 SV for dogfights. And a small remark. New Age is a bit modded, so i can add 10 homing and 12 gatlings (not big impact on CPU here). The rest is pretty much default. So, the 1st question - why cubes??? But first let's agree, I will put all my indignation in one word - BAD. So, it is a cube design because CPU is BAD. As you can see steel blocks consumes CPU! That's... BAD. So why i should pay full resource price and 5 CPU point for a 50% HP block? That's a waste, so cubes are more effective. You can also ask - why shutters? Because Eleon Studios is BAD, they still can't handle LagShots (for 4 years, i guess?) and sometimes they even deny the obvious, the existence of LagShot. No idea what's in their minds, but LagShots are with us everyday so we always use shutters, that's pretty simple and lazy design from me here A bit earlier i reported some strange physics effects in game, but Eleon seems like to deny Newton's laws and use Narnia's ones. As a result its kinda a challenge to build what you want because effects are very random. I tried my best on this and i got pretty much OK stats for handling and acceleration. For PvP its very important to be maneuverable, tenacious and fast. If you are not - you are dead pretty quick. So any of you combat SV must reach top speed 200m/s in space. We tried a space battle on 200m/s speeds - its totally unreal. Its a very high speed for this game and you can't really aim an enemy because of constant lags. It seems like there is no motion at this game. There are only rapid laggy teleports from one place to another. For example you can see any video of combat from HWS to understand what i mean. Next few thing i hate in this game for years. Gun fire. Why its not fully automatic? Why i must do manual click-click-click and 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3 pressings? Eleon, why? Give me answer please? But whatever, they are keep being silent about it... Its not a problem for me cause i use macro for that purpose. Next thing, pilot mode and aiming. That's the real pain. Let me explain. When you are going on foot with rifle, 1st person view, your crosshair is hardly linked to you mouse pointer, so you can aim very fast and precisely. As in CS:GO. But when you are in vessel, you don't really control the crosshair. Your moves got accelerations and compensations, kinda. For example, if you will drag your mouse very fast from left to right and than opposite many times - actual crosshair on screen will stay in the same position. I call it aiming through a condom. I know why they do so, but let the weapons fire via circle in pilot mode, not the crosshair! It will make aim a LOT easier. Also take a look at our test SV fights. Default Merc-MX5E is terrible and pretty much unplayable in PvP. That's pretty much regular fight, but here we can see super old Empyrion's problem - moving targets take 5-10 times less damage than stationary ones. This problem was here forever, i have no idea why Eleon still don't want or able to solve it, it ripping of PvP for years... or i donno, maybe they also deny that fact, but for us its pretty oblivious. So, summary: 1) They wanted to bring specialization with CPU - they 100% failed, they bring only another disbalanced limitation. For example you can't ever build a Dreadnought now. 2) CPU is BAAAAAD 3) Steel blocks eats CPU - its ridiculous for me (hello cube designs) 4) In my opinion ship's size and filling should be balanced with mass, generator power and fuel consumption, but not by artificial CPU limitations. And last. All PvP community waiting for you to fix all that bugs i described above. Lagshots, laggy movment, bad damage spread on moving targets. Please make it main priority, stop adding new PvE bugs! Thank for understanding.
This post is a fantastic example of why Eleon needs to decide whether to focus on "PVP" or the game. As anyone reading this can see, LAGSHOT is the issue with MP. All this because the system isn't good at predicting future positioning. Lets review shall we? In PVP its important to have good looking, massive ships that are highly maneuverable and FAST and accelerate "the best" , so just make the game so you can have the biggest, fastest, quickest, most maneuverable, and good looking ships, and all will be well.
Disclosure: as a player, I am a SP PVE who would be willing to co-op PVE, but won't touch PVP in this game or almost any other. Lag shot is an issue for anyone, PVP or PVE who tries to evade rather than absorb damage in combat. This makes sense for most PVP action and CPU restrictions actually preferentially support this tactic on lower tiers in all scenarios exacerbating the issue. Wanting good-looking ships is not a PVP specific requirement either. That said, since the block CPU calculation is a fraction of hit points and hit points vary with the shape, the focus on cubes is a bit overblown. Many of the secondary concerns are problematic across play styles, but aren't linked to CPU.
Well you quoted me so I'll reply. I play on a very tough PVE server right now and haven't noticed any lag issue with regard to AI fire. Perhaps its there but realistic enough for me to not notice, which is "good enough". This must not be the case for the average PVP fight, which does not surprise me in the least since I raised this issue a few years ago. Certainly CPU is trying to address this, I think that is what you are saying. Except you should have quoted the guy who said "CPU BAD" not the guy who said "lagshot is an an issue with MP". Normally I wouldn't point this out except you then said "wanting a good looking ship is not a PVP specific requirement either" thus qualifying you previous paragraph. I never said wanting a good looking ship was PVP specific did I? Perhaps you could point out where I did. I said it appears the OP and perhaps other PVP centric folks want to have their cake and eat it too, imagine flying around in a blocked out ship and complaining the you cant use shaped blocks because these SMALLER dimension blocks have smaller hit points? WTF over. So I think you are saying that..well I am not sure. It appears as though you are just making a point to me that while the concern is overblown, I over stated that in my post? You whole reply just confuses me a bit and seem rather, silly?
I've had lag-fire in earlier versions; I haven't played 10 or 11 far enough to get a very fast base/cargo vessel assault going to personally verify it still exists. CPU isn't supposed to fix lag-shots at all, unless the official explanation is misleading. Nor will the implementation affect having both armour and high thrust on a dedicated combat vehicle. As for where you equated PVP and good-looking ships: "In PVP its important to have good looking, massive ships...". That implies an exclusionary principle. If the preference for "good-looking" is invariant across the playstyle spectrum then the qualifier shouldn't have been included. Everything after 'that said,' in my post qualifies my assertion that while appearance is a preference for all playstyles, the original concern is in my opinion overblown with respect to angled block shapes.
So that applies while fast, quick, and maneuverable didn't? I don't buy the excuse. The only thing I excluded was the ability to have it all if you want to split that ultra fine hair you just pulled out.
To keep it simple, blocks using cpu as another class limiter is dumb... pick one.... Next, adding more to a sandbox without fixing base/mechanical issues is dumb... How many years now?? Its a sandbox, we can keep end game fun if the simple base game is working properly. You keep adding beginner content which is fine but you must at one point concentrate on the base game. People aren't sitting around to play the game from the beginning all the time... What happens then... Leave n play another game.
@ -=Ice=- You're mixing up all problems concerning PVP and you assign them wrong to CPU. And that couldn't be one LAGSHOTS reason ? Do you have any programming or network optimisation knowledge ? The more elements there are to share between players, the more bandwidth the game needs and the more you get lags. So the more weapons, projectiles, ships part,... you have the more you get lags. CPU is not the problem but it could be the solution. You don't need to trust me, just read this : https://www.satisfactorygame.com/blog/2019/7/17/satisfactory-network-optimizations What about reducing half-block to 3 CPU points ? And you miss something, half-block = less mass = more manoeuvrability ... Where is the relationship with CPU restrictions ? This problem was there before and again CPU could reduce it ... This is not a CPU issue, you mix up everything again. I agree with you and why can't all the weapons fire at the same time ? But again, that's out of topic ... suggestions topic maybe ? Suggestions topic ? And think about using aimbot ...
There are so many things wrong here I don't even know where to begin. Very little of it has to do with the game though. I'll just leave it at that.
I really avoid ( or try ) to don`t be polemic. Also because i had already say on different place what i had to say. You are completely right. I reach your same conclusion without be pro pvp player and with out playing this game for years, But as always and repeating myself again is just the new fly dinamic who are extremely bad. I have see you design and i have 2 different feeling about them: 1) dreadfull 2) perfect You wrong in one thing, as some one cited. New rules affect no only pvp but also pve. With the new rules, the new forced way to put the engines ( if you want your ship able to turn) you are in front of two different choice. 1) performance 2) Beauty There are some people on this forum who just mind ad the look of their ship, but as design are quite ineffective, terrible cost/benefic ratio, and more someting to show that someting to use....as a ferrari with a toyota engine concept. We all agree who that aproch on pvp dont make the player win the fights. So is reasonable thinking who mind performance as first and use at the end some little afford to made the ship look at least reasonable. I agree with you who when the cap and the limitation go up, performance will take everyting and look doesn`t matter anymore. When i was ( i paused it becouse i don`t trust the dev team anymore ) working at my new cv with cpu, weight and new flight system, I realize who a shorted and dense ship have less weight to carry on, less size ( more long is a ship on the tre dimension more the size increase regardless of the empty space, less yaw, roll and pitch you have) . So need less engine, so less cpu, so more protection and more speed.... I realize also who should be really ugly..... I made a ship who is rectangular.....and the bigger part of my job was to try to make her look good.....after i take the decision to take a break maybe the big boss upstair change maind and decide to make some "adjustment". So better to weith.....i still dont really understand what`s going on. But apparently the cv destrying saga is still no finish, some other new staff is coming soon aparently.....i`m talking about the new experimental upgrade and the boost.........so stay tuned the saga is not over yet.... Good ugly ship for everyone.....( sorry not for all)..
You must be blind, i don't mix anything. CPU and all other bugs are separated. Of course it can't be, cause as i see you got zero pvp experience and have no idea what are you talking about. Lagshot is possible with 1 gatling. Also with 1 SV or CV manual laser. It wouldn't happen with projectiles like homing rockets. I'm ok with reducing it to zero. Iron chunks don't need a computer to exist. Are you stuck on CPU? Problems with that again? Holy crap, relax, i'm talking NOT ABOUT CPU here! Where i said its a CPU only feedback? Learn to read, again. What? I've checked your PvE creations... i suggest you to stay away from PvP cause you will die fast there. Problem is all that CPU crap done for PvE single player. And i don't know why PvP should suffer because of it. To be honest you don't need CPU to build beautiful PvE ship and you don't need CPU to build a good PvP ship. Nobody needs CPU for real. Because it is very dumb idea your computer can't handle more than 10 engines, roughly. Only developers need CPU, cause they don't want (or just can't) to optimize the game. Adding more and more and more restriction forces players to build smaller ship (less blocks less lags logic). Now you can't really use dreadnought because of artificial limitations. Globally it's a wrong way and i hate it. To have fun you only need smooth netcode without unsync. Unfortunately Empyrion never had it.
You put all different PVP issues in a single post, it's the worst idea you could have. Now we have long and boring posts trying to speak about multiple issues at the same time. I have less PVP experience than you, but you don't seem to understand that we're talking about network performance, and there is your lack of knowledge. We are talking about virtual elements, not how it works IRL. Each block add polygons, each polygon need PC ressources. Each block can be destroyed, Each block need network bandwidth (for HP, destruction ...) Hmmm attack from behind, thank you but I don't think I going focus on your opinion. My works will always be more effective than the "fine words" of some people, don't you agree ? How did you know that ? PVE don't need balance between players. PVE need less PC ressources (less players, less structures, ...) and no network bandwith. CPU is clearly not for that, by decreasing the max number of block, you also reduce the number of details. CPU is for game performance and game balance, just spawn a single Class 10 ship and watch your FPS ... For ALL games : More elements = More PC ressources = More Bandwith needed = More lags. Even a FPS game is limited to 100 players on MP and they have a small asset of equipement. Each players gives information about his location, his status, his equipement ... multiply that by 100 and you're on Empyrion ! Did you know EVE Online ? Did you know what's happen when thousands of players are fighting each others ? -> Time dilatation, the game become 10 times slower because of bandwich limitation. Imagine the same things with destructible blocks, just a nightmare. Empyrion clearly needs optimizations, but there are also network limits no matter what they do.
That makes CPU only to a Size Class 2.0 , was it is . But what the dev team wanted to do wit CPU was to force the players to build specialized ships like mining or combat ships , but the design of the CPU is so vague that it mutated just to a size class 2.0 . Thats not right the CPU itself was intendet for both PvE and PvP but the way it is designed it is for no one interessting or good . I do absolutly agree , unpowered blocks or deko should not use CPU , for performance we have the size class system we don't need another one . The Workshop dosn't say annythink about his PvP expiriance , i have some nice PvP ship's to but you will not find them in my WS exept you are in my frind list . I'm more the builder but i designed a lot of ship's for my Friends so PvE and PvP ship's "only arround 5% of my ship's are visible in my Workshop" , and as i read that a CPU system will come i was realy interessted , spacial for the PvP can a good designed CPU system give a realy nice boost , for example weapon's and shield would not longer have a hardcap the cap is based on your armamends cpu and that's based on the ammound of armamend CPU blocks , the same system for other group like Engineering for Engines and Generators etc. this give you the abbility to build still a absolutly PvP biest but of the cost of other functions like producktion , storrage etc. and internal space . I think the most time the dev's spend in CPU was in desingnig the blocks , the rest looks like a slightly changed copy paste of the size class system . But that reminds me at somethink Hummel wrote in the German channel Google Translator : "Nevertheless: The Alpha means = It is primarily about feature installation, secondarily about performance."
So what't the average salary for a "Pro PvP player" these days? Wondering if I should brush up on my pew-pew and quit my day job, though I doubt it's $195,000/yr.
You got suffer, pain and disappointment daily, in large amounts. Years ago you've believed that game could become your space survival dream game... But with time game turned into... BAD. Gyuz, there is no sense for me to argue with you or educate you. All i wanted is to hear some feedback from developerss, but they never answered me, they always ignoring all my posts. Well, i have one trump card in my sleeve - i know duplicate methods in this game, they are still here and they didn't fix anything. Hope it will force them to finally answer me.
The here, everybody salvage this block at the same time method? Or the other one? Here's the thing though, the developers are pretty busy developing, so they don't generally do a lot of posting and replying - since developing tends to get in the way. I've gotten a couple direct responses to things, generally bug reports, but this isn't a bug. It's just a cosmetic item, so if there is an Official Response, it's likely going to be a while. If you liken the game to children... you have a child and you dream of that child growing up to become a leading neurosurgeon. In time, that child turns into a teenager, who is suddenly gifted with the Knowledge of All Things, and spends their time with their friends, drinking beers, partying, chasing skirts, not doing homework, not studying - in short, turns 'bad'. Just like the game, there is still time for things to turn around, to shape up closer to our expectations - however it is important to remember that our expectations and the developers expectations may not line up, and guess who's expectations win out? I'll give you a hint, it's not the people posting in the forums instead of writing the game code.
Lol, of course no, my methods are allowing you to dupe any stuff in industrial scales. You can just copy full cargoboxes. RELEASE DATE: 5 Aug, 2015 Since that time there are 3 problems: 1) intermittent and laggy movement, even in single player and maybe because of that: 2) lagshots (btw they are impossible on stationary target) 3) damage on moving target is like 10 times smaller against stationary targets These 3 problems are 4 years old. For 4 years they didn't solve it. There are no plans to solve it in future. I wanna have answer about these problems. Don't tell me about child growing please, its different.
It is different - in some ways, and at least with a child you can always send them to boarding school if they don't behave.... It's been pretty uncommon that I've run into intermittent or laggy movement. Had a spot of it here or there, usually with first-release version updates, but these tend to get addressed rather quickly. Of course, I do run an above-average PC too. Lagshots - I'm almost certain this is a PvP-only issue, as I've never experienced any issues shooting or being shot at. Perhaps I just don't understand this unique term, never heard anywhere else - do explain. Damage on moving targets... again, I think largely a PvP issue, as I can down an NPC patrol craft with only a few well-placed shots. It's how I wound up with a Rados PV blueprint (kind of a worthless ship, but makes a nice trophy). As for Item Duplication... to be fair, it's not really that big of a deal. In the end, you ultimately only cheat yourself of anything resembling fun, game-experience, and ultimately, other people to play with - or they do the same, and in the end, what's the point of playing with each other?
Empyrion can enable both PvP and survival, but not at the same time. Large scale "pro" PvP means a necessary reduction in the survival aspect. A PvP server, running a PvP scenario, with a custom config and loot table optimized for PvP, and a custom PDA for PvP, and PvP optimized mods, will NOT be nearly the same hard core survival experience as a PvE server optimized for PvE, and vice versa. Do you want a PvP game? Then play on PvP servers. Do you want a survival game? Then play on PvE oriented servers. It's nearly impossible to balance the default game for both, especially during alpha when a lot of the underlying game mechanics are still not in. If you know of a way to duplicate items on a multiplayer server without admin rights, file a bug report so it can get fixed.
