Okay so i tried to buid my first CPU compatible SV that iscapable to fight against defense Bases. Spoiler: Long Story short: It is not possible. So I took my old favorite SV, removed all the RCS, put T4 extenders inside and it is not moving. Okay, a little bit sad as i gonna miss this good old bitch i start my second try: This one was huge (SC 7) but i thought hey i strip along with the RCSs all the unecessary stuff that has no use in a fighting SV out, such as cargo space. In addidtion i removed all Jet thrusters S (that were the only usable ones till the big rebalancing) and replaced them with Jet thrusters M and L (two in each direction except for the sides there only one [i know sideways it would need more but this was just a test of what is possible]). Also i removed a third of the hull plating (basically everything that is not hull). And as the interior would need a whole rearrangement i strip out all O2 tanks and most of the Generators and fuel tanks. And while doing this I also removed teh warp drive, as i don't travel with SVs anyway these days. Btw i kinda miss the days of traveling with a SV but today it just seems a bit pointless, SVs can never carry all the stuff i want to carry. But it was an awesome feeling, you alone in your small SV leaving your starter planet and entering the bis space... . Ugh i am getting too nostalgic, back to the topic. So my SV was left with 60% of the max amount of guns, 2 or 3 Spotlights, 2 cockpits, a shield, a few thrusters and it's hull. And i am still over the T4 CPU limit. And this is kinda a gamebreaker for me. I know youneed to specialize your Vessels more these days, and thats fine really i get it. But this ship is not even nearly capable of confronting a defence line! The thrust is too low, redundancy is not fully given, And the SV shield is okay but nothing more. No wonder that people use CVs these days to attack planetside POIs. And btw in PVP CV shields are everything else than overpowered! So anyway, tell me your experiences with SVs these days. Do you attack POIs still with SV? If so what SV do you use?
My smal spaceships are still flying just as good, or crappy, as they were in eleven. For Pois, I've always used a CV where I just park it above. With the SV you can at best create a distraction. I mean, you wouldn't attack Berlin with a small vessel, would you?
I agree with nottrox. The SV is not a comparable ship against a CV anymore. It's simply pressed in a role of a small unprotected explorer vessel. It does less Damage than a CV, has less Cargo space, less shields, shorter warp jumps, the slightly higher max speed dont count. Often the flight behavior is worse. The CPU system for SV is very exact calculated. It gives few or no space for building a superior SV. Only the "trade off", "you can have guns or RCS, then you dont have a shield, etc.". We had several test fights in atmosphere, our best SV against a normal CV . The CV wins ever. A SV against a normal PvP base, not the breeze of a chance. SV's only work on POI's and exploration. My suggestion: Give the SV a advantage against a CV or Bases (rock-paper-scissors). Like Anti Ship Torpedos (ignoring CV shields) or Base Busting Bombs with large area damage or bunker piercing capability.
No you get me totally wrong, these SVs were from before CPU time. That's the point, this is not an alpha 12 thread this is a CPU thread. And why the hell should i attack Berlin anyway? I have friends living there.
I meant I built CPUs into A10 SVs, and I can't see any blatant difference. But my Small Vessels were really small. Sorry for that......just kidding.
Early game I use a variant of this (the variant is some minor improvements and more cargo space, slightly longer, but basically the same armament wise when upgrade to T2 with a pair of dumb fire): https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2014582832 It a starter SV with a pair of gatling and can have a pair of dumb fires added. Fine for low level POIs with just a couple of turrets - obvious its fragile, so I must not get hit by a turret. In mid game (12 through to level 20+) I use this: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2012392602 A generic dropship - shields, 2 x gatling, 4 by rocket and I later add tier 4 and plasma (@lvl20) At end game I use this: A much heavier drop ship / assault ship / heavy lifter + high G capable. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2011435256 This is near maximum tier 4 because of having excessive weapons and alot of thrust. In practice the only real difference between the two drop ships is choice of weapons and amount of thrust. They both inflict the same damage and have the same shields. Most of the time you only need 2 or 3 weapon types - precise anti personnel (gatling/pulse), mixed use anti-personnel aoe and anti materiel (plasma) and something to blow **** up (rockets). I am just starting to build a small pure assault focussed SV - 12 weapons mounts - 4 precise, 4 mixed, 4 blow **** up. I very much doubt it will be any where near the T4 limit as I dont expect it will need the stupid amount of thrust that my T4 drop ship has and I have pre-decided what weapons choices to have on it. I do not expect to need RCS, maybe a couple at most. Of course shields, no warp to save mass and size (because it will always operate out of a nearby CV), though in practice CPU tax means it will have to be L12 for Tier 3. The problem with SVs is the way weapons work (and vanilla count mount turrets), so there is no realy damage scaling to late game unless you switch device limits off. What I can build at level 10 or so is pretty much as good as it gets. The only SV upgrade I look forward to unlocking weapons wise is plasma, but it optional when I have something precise for XP and something to blow **** up with. You can have all of that on an SV with shields at level 7 FFS (which seems wrong TBH) if you can get the resource to make it then. In practice due ot CPU tax, it would need to be tier 3, so lvl 12.
Definitely still attack POIs with an SV although not one without a shield (unless it's an single undefended POI with 1-2 turrets tops). Right now I use jrandalls MX5e comes in at T2 so you can use for scouting but he put easy instructions on how to upgrade to T3 with shields and slots for more weapons. A cheap T1 SV is pretty much just for scouting/exploring, going to local moon for resources, and taking out drones.
Ironically, I find that SVs are a great way to defend a base. A simple tier one interceptor can mount six 15mm machine guns. This is a heck of lot of firepower to bring against drones and troop transports. You barely need any systems, just a small generator, small fuel tank, and clever thruster placement. You don't need life support or storage besides some ammo. Since you'll only be flying it for a few minutes at a time, you can even run it just fine on biofuel. SVs for offensive roles are limited, but not hapless. A tier two SV can easily accommodate a set of heavy weapons like rocket launchers, plasma cannons, or rail guns. The trick is to think like a strike bomber, not attack helicopter. Speed and agility are your primary defenses. Pick a target from outside turret range, zoom towards it, blast the target, and peel away all without stopping. This method lets you get as close as possible before the turrets engage you. One or two passes is enough for most turrets. Forward thrust, lifting thrust, and climbing ability are what you emphasize for such a vessel. As for a reason to make a tier four combat SV, I could imagine a long-range strike craft too fast for CVs to catch and too burly for interceptors to stop. They could be dropped from a carrier CV into a system to wreak havoc on unshielded BAs and unprotected non-combat ships. Then, before the defenders can quite get organized, they rendezvous with the carrier and warp home. This would be an expensive capability, but certainly one an experienced pvp faction could make great use of. I think where most people are getting hung up is trying to pack too much ship into a single SV. The result is usually a tier four SV that isn't actually good at anything. It won't have enough of the right weapons to attack anything specific, won't have enough thrusters in the right placement to be agile or fast, won't have enough cargo room to carry loot from a POI, won't have the right amount of generator capacity to be efficient, won't have enough fuel or oxygen storage for extended operation, and won't be compact enough to fit inside most hangars, but you can be sure it's got at least two constructors and all the greebles you could ask for. I tend to think the problem is a legacy from ship design before mass & volume and CPU limits. The transition into the new design paradigm has been very painful for some builders. Tangled with the design bloat problems is an apparent lack of thought about how to actually use SVs in a fight. Most people I've seen will attempt to simultaneously engage targets and dodge incoming fire by moving laterally or reversing. Rather than designing a ship that can do something well and using that capability to win, they do whatever comes naturally to them in the moment and try design ships that accommodate this. The result in my eyes has been combat SVs that are vastly overengined, overweight, overgunned, and overpriced for the capabilities they provide. The only solution I can see for both of these problems is actual "air-to-air" combat experience. You can get this in pvp, but since most people don't, it's going to take AI opponents. When Zirax and other faction SVs finally come onto the scene, they are going to need to be fast, aggressive, and tricky. Players should have to use their aerospace craft to their highest potential to win. If players' SV designs prove too slow to cope, they should be shot down. It may seem a harsh way to teach players, but that's the environment HVs have lived in for quite some time now, and the effects are quite evident in the excellence of the average HV's design. As one space despot put it, the predator perfects the prey. Later on, we can get to finding ways to teach CV helmsmen how to fear again.
There are two uses currently for combat SVs (ignoring PvP): 1 - base defence - just needs a really light cheap SV with some gatlings. A couple of homing rocket as well may be a nice to give some harder hitting vs troop carriers. T1/T2 tends to be the sweet spot for this - shield not needed. 2 - POI raiding - this is by definition a multi role activity - part a) blow **** up, part b) make off with the loot. So of course people are designing multi-role combat ship to be useful raiders. Ie combat + cargo - which is what a typical pirate ship is as that is exactly what you are doing. These tend to be T3/T4 (due to shield). I suppose there is a 3rd use - exterminating talon as a means to rapidly level. The base defence fighter is good for this, maybe add a couple of rockets for taking out the ballistas.
very heavy SV is no more possible with cpu limits. i have before cpu a big SV i use for cargo, with lot of cargo box, now, i can just delete it ... for people who want to have a ship like the millenium falcon or the ebon hawk .... the cpu limit will be your nightmare, unless you make the ship full of carbon block .... in order to attack POI, if use PVP sv mostlty, wich is designed to burst and have good layers , but the crap is sv dont have enough cargo box to hold all treasure i can found in a big POI... so most of time i come with a special CV (designed to take down all defense of a POI with 30mm and 15mm turrets. ) , then stay over or in front of the poi and let the turret did the job.... about defense, i use any sv with shield, rocket or gatlings, it's enough to take down any drone ... about pvp, a fight with 2 sv is just a waste of time ... because the speed and shield up is actually .... weird, if you miss one shot, it go back to 100% , shield up is too fast and too short... the first who run out of ammo, will lost ... (unless you are a cheater that use aimbot like someone here who is always banned.... )
If measuring this by PvP's 30 layers of armor, air gaps etc - maybe. No idea I don't do PvP. But for PvE - what are your definitions of - how heavy in kt (and why so heavy?) - much cargo space and what else on board? Or have links to the blueprints? I am wondering what your expectations are - maybe they are reasonable, maybe not. My highest capacity SV is 32k and it is a dedicated small transport (for collecting from auto-miners) and only T2. My biggest SV is right on the CPU limit, but only because I put a full set of each weapon type on it for the hell of it (a later revision reduces weapons slots to 16 for 4 each of pulse laser, plasma, rocket and rail gun and increase cargo to 16k). It also has way over 1kt lift capacity with much more CPU spare so I can stick a few turrets on it if the server supports such a mod.
Can build a fighter SV, just that then you do not get much cargo space (if mass and volume on). After taking down POIs and such I can use a micro CV hauler to collect resources (cheaper than a SV hauler). SV I currently uses (not listed, can easily add or change weapons, no CPU blocks, have a version where front thruster and cockpit switched places): https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2110734483
Unfortunately, the attempt to keep SVs from overshadowing HVs is leaving SVs underwhelming when compared to CVs.
For 'early' (mid) game (15-20), I love my Austerty: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2164379732 For endgame, I'll keep using my Pathfinder - at least until i have completed its successor for the reforged scenario: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2169709807 Also keep in mind, we have the new flightmodel from A11! (uplift + drag, etc) Saying, the vanilla game is easy to build for. Reforged Scenario, that is the VERY challenging experience!
I only seen mentioning the raiding of POI's, not PvP in the opening post. I dont built for pvp, building for pvp is annoying... now even more than before. The Austerty can take 2k SU (CS blocks) and leave 1.3g OR 3.8 g when carrying only promethium ore (2k SU). If the planet has atmosphere, it can leave a 4g planet with 2k SU CS blocks (about 30). The Pathfinder can carry 15k SU and leave as well a 1.1 g planet while carrying 202 CS blocks, or leave 5g while carrying only promethium ore. Both have decent strafe abilities as long they are not loaded with cargo while attacking.
Well they are decent ships. Still for attacking a POI with shield it is missing some energy weapons. And about the PvP issue. We barely use SVs in fights anymore. For the Bases we mostly use tanks. If we are attacking together sometimes a one of us in a SV as the laser weapons are a better tool when you want to get the shields down. (When several bases are close enough to each other the HV plasma turrets sometimes fire on a another base that is 50 or even 100 meters further away instead of the one thats closest.) Also we found that an SV is usefull to fight CVs in atmosphere and enemy tanks. So i guess thats something
Oh and also in the meantime i did a rework of another ones ship as well. Hauler Monkey Wild I somehow missed to upload the statistics page but it has lots of lift power and also 10 Weapon slots.
And yet i stick with it. I was trying to built a CV hunter. So an SV that can hunt a CVs in atmosphere. Sidenote: Here i was talking about a flying brick in a defending position. So i wanted a proper ship to hunt someone who wants to escape and i cam up with this: And it sucks, the turnrates are just a pain in the ass, nearly every CV can out maneuver me with this. and the ship ist mostly EMPTY INSIDE. really there ist nothing except the hull, the thrusters and a inner hull around cockpit+core and around the weapons. And that's it. No armor, no cargospace, no constructors, NADA. And RCS are so weak in a ship of this size they don't do anything. In fact i removed 4 of the 6 JetM thrusters that are mounted sideways and replaced them with as many RCS as CPU T4 Allowed and ended up with a weaker Yaw rate. This is just no fun anymore. The restrictions on SVs still feel too harsh. They is just no fun left in flying with a SV.
Ouch! I find when you stick too many thrusters on thing it can just weigh it down rather than actually add to maneuverability (might add on its axis, but cripples others). Also a full set of weapons weighs a lot too. I think my biggest SV has 6 JMs for lift, 2 JL for forward and 2 JMs for reverse and the rest of all regulars M/L thrusters. Quite maneuverable but cant accelerate hard sideways or downwards - need to roll it and use the lift thrusters really but I'm OK with that - suits my flying style I guess.
