How much upgrading is too much for a bleuprint?

Discussion in 'Questions, Discussions & Feedback' started by Khazul, Jun 9, 2020.

  1. Khazul

    Khazul Rear Admiral

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    I make quite a few blueprints for the workshop so I find myself treading a line between what is easy enough to upgrade vs being able to build it early when it may be most useful.

    Often when I design an early/mid game ship (I'm sure it is the same for everyone) then I design it for a certain natural tech level (for eg, I may design it to be mainly used as a tier 3, level 15+ CV), however the version I may post may be a much lower tech level and need some upgrading to reach its ideal tech level (T2, level 10 is a common target for a progression CV).

    Now much of what we do is just simple marked locations and the user just needs to plop in the required item (constructor, etc) - this is not the issue here.

    Sometimes it gets a little more complex - plop in a teleporter and set it to follow the existing teleporter signal sensor for eg (similar for a repair bay if you have a power control signal). This maybe worthy of discussion, but its still relatively simple to describe on a LCD.

    Another thing I do a lot for myself is to downgrade the thrusters of a naturally T3 CV from its natural thruster M to thruster S all round so I can get away with it being T2 at initial build and often level 10. This also may significantly reduce initial build resource needs (Neodynium) and of course avoid needing T3 CPU extender resources - ie lots of gold. Obviously this may mean much slower turning when first built. To get the vessel into it ideal state, you would need to unlock and hand make all the thrusters and replace the existing ones which may not always be blindingly obvious (some enclosed, some slants etc).

    Do people think this is taking it too far for workshop builds?

    My reasoning for myself is I don't want to build two expensive things, I would rather build one good thing and make it a project to upgrade it as and when I can because it is something I will live with while levelling up.

    OTOH, for those new to the game, then I can understand that the in game prefabs are very much build it and no need to fiddle around with upgrades or at least not any complex upgrades that may take a while sitting in space or whatever.

    What are peoples views on this as they may apply to your main progression ships you might use from the workshop and/or design for the workshop? Do you prefer to build it early and have to work at upgrading it, or just a simple later (and probably also harder to acquire CPU tier) build that you just build and use and dont have do any upgrades that are more than plop in an extra thing in a marked location?

    When is upgradability too much?
     
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  2. RazzleWin

    RazzleWin Rear Admiral

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    For myself I like to see the finished product more then the upgrade-able version. I don't mind spending the time collecting what I need each step. I don't mind saving up for that shinny new ship and my first spin in my new ship is what I want. I don't want to by the shell and then decide what type of camper I want to turn the van into. I want to drive off in the 0 to 200 in 5 secs right out the showroom floor!:cool:

    Besides, my use by date is getting closer:eek: I want it all NOW! :rolleyes::D:p
     
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  3. boo

    boo Commander

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    i mostly dont upgrade my CV , i have a bp for each need , a starter cv, a mid start cv, a emergency cv, mining cv, cargo cv, endgame cv, pvp cv, carrier cv

    for me, updgrading a ship mean ... making a new ship better

    it's also one of my pvp line, if one of my ship lost a battle (with me at command), then, i'll redesign it or make a new one ... better .
     
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  4. Apocrypha

    Apocrypha Lieutenant

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    In contrast to the previous two postersI am a huge fan of upgradable designs. I tend to play with hard difficulty settings, low resources and slow player progression. It's really useful to be able to build a cheap SV at level 5 that I can then slowly turn into a solid, shielded ship that can still be useful at level 15.

    I've also found that the process of upgrading ships has helped me learn a bit about how to build them myself. It's a slow & steep learning curve but deconstructing and tinkering with other peoples designs plays a big part of that learning.
     
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  5. RazzleWin

    RazzleWin Rear Admiral

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    Mate don't get me wrong. I have been right where you are now. I have started over so many times and build bases and ship from scratch. Anymore I just like to get into the mix and bypass parts of it now.
    Like right now I decided I didn't much care for the temp start. So went back to the snow start. I grabbed the shiny new Saturn Ship that @Khazul had made.
    I had upgraded it all the way up to his notes then dropped it on the Snow starter in some random place. Removed 3 generators and the warp drive. :eek:
    My start is simple. Broken ship, little fuel, I'm level 25 already and already have rep with the Pol. Right now I trying to collect everything I will need to fix my ship and get off planet again. From food to ore and still stay warm with med armour. Oh and I didn't save the blue print of the ship so I can't have the service station to repair it. :)
     
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  6. Apocrypha

    Apocrypha Lieutenant

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    I think that's one of the things I love about this game, there's so many different ways to play it :) I try to do something different each time. My current save is also a snow starter one (loving that playfield too) and I decided to try and only use ships & bases I'd designed myself.
     
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  7. Sephrajin

    Sephrajin Rear Admiral

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    In such cases, I'd recomend going for multiple BP's.

    1.) One BP as the initial starter/survival ship - Which includes instructions and might not be as polished (read: have access-'corridors' to the places for the required changes)
    2.) The other is the 'end product', fully upgraded as planed and intended.

    Just be aware, this 'procedure' does not necesarily make sense for all kind of ships.
    As in, I would not even consider making a 'starter' edition of a CV (of the same size) when its like class 7+.

    However, what I had done in the past is something like this:
    (just for visual reference, they're not A12 compatible)

    Starter (Class 1.41):
    SEA Duckverine (starter).jpg
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1264763130

    Final (Class 18, back then at least):
    SEA Duckverine.jpg
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1271767468


    EDIT:
    On a second note, my Magellan has also a starter (lvl 10) and final (lvl 25) edition, beeing of same size and all.
    For that ship I designed in creative, saved the full edition and then ripped apart everything that was raising the level and mat requirement.
    I even used the console to downgrade the CS blocks to regular steel.

    This said, I used to like those upgrade-able ships on my gameplays back then.
    Nowadays, I'd like to join this - get and forget - mentality ;)

    Meaning, get a blueprint and dont have to upgrade a thing.
    --> Adding turrets or other things to marked places is another thing, but having to have a multool to upgrade blocks/devices, not really.

    This said, I never use lvl 7 CV's (nowadays).
    To me, they only become usefull at lvl 10 or later - yes, even (what I consider) starter CVs.
    Until then, I'm quite occoupied using the HV/SV to their best.

    I even have a starter CV that I use for 2 purposes.
    First as a real starter CV, just to get off that planet to somewhere else.
    And later, at level 25, I turn it into a drilling-CV, as it has mountpoints and a designated location to place a harvest box - container extensins are already pre-installed.

    Saying:
    Somewhen later, you might just want to have the full edition ready.
    And in other situations, you're happy than you can get the cheap variant.

    But most importantly:
    Do not build "for" the workshop.
    Build for yourself - and put it on the workshop -> You'll have more fun this way! :)
    (though, having some screenshots and text is always nice and is usualy better percieved)

    What I'm trying to say here is:
    If you're not a professional architect, designer or otherwise have a similar profession, building "for" the workship might cause serious stress, trauma and exhaustion.
    But building for fun is alot more relaxed and the results are just as good - if not better (for non-professional builders).

    Also, I did upload a CV of mine - despite I didnt really like it.
    But since a friend asked me to upload (well, share) it, I put it on the workshop.
    Turned out to be my biggest success with over 2700 subs today.

    I did built that for fun, never thought of putting it on the workshop.
    Yet, its more often liked and downloaded than many of my other ships that I personaly prefer much more (to have on the workshop -> because I think they look better).
    As a matter of fact, most of my ERA line was built "for the workshop" (my mentality at the time)... with the exception of the Alapalo, they all failed (they do have like 100-300 subs, but I did had expected/hoped more back then).

    Then again, those ships/structures I just built for fun and/or myself, turned out to be the best 'success' on the workship (of my stuff - and at their time).
     
    #7
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
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  8. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    Oh! Look who's here! Welcome Back @Sephrajin :)
    Long time no see!
    Hope you are well?
     
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  9. Trump

    Trump Commander

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    I've been playing lots of survival and found the following to be good rules of thumb.

    - Never upgrade more than 1 CPU tier. It's always better to just rebuild your t1/t2 stuff for t3/4.
    - Low level ships should have at most 2 complementary roles. Dedicated builds are almost always better. As much as I wanted a t1 scout/fighter SV that could have a warp drive added it didn't work out and having a dedicated figher and dedicated warp/dronehatch miner worked better. However popping the drills off my HV miner and putting on harvesters worked fine since they are basically the same role. Converting a mining CV to a salvage CV by swapping the tool turret also works well.
    - Always have a general upgrades area. Nearly all of the workshop creations I've tried have required upgrades or modifications not planned for by the creator, nearly none had space for them. A 2x2x6 (or larger) area is great for adding another generator and some fuel or more storage or a few constructors or whatever I happen to need.
    - Weapon mount points. Weapons add a huge amount of time and resources to the bp, aren't always needed and are very easy to add after the fact. My t4 bps are fully armed, but most of my t1/2 don't come with any weapons and I craft them while the bp is being made.
     
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  10. Deadalready

    Deadalready Lieutenant

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    Out of the box the craft has to do what it advertises and do it WELL. This is because many players will test it out in creative then dump it or use it.

    While I love the MX5 for example, upgrading it just doesn't make much sense after a certain stage. For example once you're adding / changing guns and thrusters it's just easier to build a new crafts and honestly resources aren't that difficult to acquire past starter...

    Upgrading (in my opinion) is about making a good craft personalised, for example adding a passenger seat for your friend, a shower near the door so you can survive that radioactive planet you visit, swapping the lasers for rockets because you like them better. So build a good craft for the role it's supposed to fill but don't believe it'll give it a longer life to add upgrade points when resources are plentiful and crafts are easily destroyed :p
     
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  11. Alendi Istari

    Alendi Istari Lieutenant

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    Generally speaking, I create and publish up-gradable designs but I also will publish already upgraded versions as I understand some people don't really get into the building aspects of this game and just want plug and play. I consider both play styles equally valid.
     
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  12. Alhira_K

    Alhira_K Captain

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    While i do appreciate upgradeability i personally make my own ships not upgradeable, instead most of the time they´re the same hull variant made for different tiers/jobs. SV/HV/CV i´d consider upgrading are usually small enough to be dismantled in 10 minutes or so and chucked into the factory for the next variant.
     
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