Take a note of this DEV. While I remain a fan of both systems, the current implementation remains unpopular. I realize that some of this an attempt by server owners to appeal to the lowest common denominator, but still... I think CPU is especially problematic as it seems very random and arbitrary in implementation and redundant when considered with the Tech Tree, building materials costs, building time and the "Class" system for defining server loads. IMHO, CPU should only limit the level of technology of the components you can install. As for Mass/Volume, I think the biggest problem with it remains the complexity of having both mass and volume applying. I'd say pick one or the other but not both. The other thing that blows me away is the number of items that get significantly heavier (in defiance of any logic or reason) once you process them. For example, cement is around 4X heavier than the stone dust used to make it.
it is all about balance and in my not so humble opinion not much in the game is balanced but then I am sure we will hear the common retort " it's beta" said in my most shrill voice
"it's a ... Release something" "No man's land" might be a server that still have vanilla Mass Volume CPU, and a Project Eden the same.
IMHO CPU = Arbitrary limitations on building I want people to enjoy playing on our servers, and have fun. You can't do this if you're limited by a system that limits your builds. Especially when some of the systems limitations are so obnoxious. Maybe after I mod the living crap out of it to balance it properly I could enable it. As it sits Vanilla, it's mostly trash. Mass/Volume = Micro-managing build layout and inventory for "realism". This isn't flight simulator. People want to play to have fun. Most people don't want to have to pay detailed attention to how the placement of every block affects their flight mechanics. I can see playing a challenging single-player game with this turned on to state my boredom with the lack of content in the Vanilla game. Beyond that though, I don't see a use for it. We want to host servers people can have fun on, which means having these systems disabled. Maybe once the game leaves Alpha development they'll work on balancing these systems better to make them useful, or even desirable. Some of the arbitrary statistics on blocks just don't make them enjoyable at all.
Well said. I gave up hosting games for now. The main reason for me was cost vs the cry and whine vs total lack of any support from the players. Having said that, you are exactly right. I play games for fun and since I am not some masochistic person I want to enjoy the little time I have to play. My play style is build, minimal fighting, and build more. In between I like to get some exploration in. Thats me. Balance might come some day and in that possibly choices on what and how your particular player and style work. For now, we have what we have.
My only real beef with Mass/Volume is that it is more Volume/Mass. One can carry 4-5 Concrete blocks even without light armor. Sounds fine, until you realize that the combined weight is over a ton!
In SE there is PCU to keep build sizes down for the sake of server performance. I never had anyone complaining about that in SE (though TBH by the time you build big enough for it to matter then the server will be on its knee anyway...). The concept of mass/volume is part of SE's physics as well and very much in your face - if you (for eg) overload you little mining ship etc and yet I have never had people about that either in SE despite the consequences of a completely wrecked ship when you crash due to being overloaded. But in this - because both system are implemented really badly, then everyone seems to hate them on servers with the worse aspect of M/V being the stupid speed cap from mass due. When thing are done properly according to real world physics then most of us can understand it because we have spent our entire lives getting used to it, but when its arbitrary and worse, broken due to flawed maths, then of course people will hate it.
Never played SE and don't plan to either I just feel that mass/volumes and CPU has been blown all out of proportion. They're not as bad as people make them out to be. There's simply no way I'd play without either of them turned on, would make the game far too boring and I could never do it.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. After all, everyone is entitled these days.... I have played SE and while an interesting concept the gameplay and a multitude of other issues plague that game. Mass, volume, and CPU suck. This game tries and fails in that regard. Still, as long as the options are there to turn it off or modify the settings I am fine with that. To each their own.
It's the name. I don't mean the name of the mechanics, I mean the name of the game itself. Space Engineers. Empyrion - Galactic Survival. Those who are more likely to understand and want physics, mass, and volume engineering game play will naturally play the game with engineering in the title. Those who want a more combat oriented action/survival game will play the game with the word survival in the title. This is probably why you don't see as many complaints about mass and volume in space engineers, because it's literally part of the title of the game. Nobody is going to play it and be surprised there's a mass and volume system. Sure, inventory limits make sense for a survival game, but Empyrion is also an engineering game with the ship building, although to a lesser degree than Space Engineers. This surprises the action/survival players. Also SE's game play is much more focused on building and resource gathering, with very little action (outside of mods). Empyrion has a lot more to occupy your attention, so when you do encounter an engineering problem it seems like it's out of place (it's not, but it can seem like it is). But that's what difficulty options are for so everybody can be happy!
I only wish for mass and volume to be seperate options to activate/deactivate. The more i play with m/v and cpu on the more i get used to cpu, volume is kinda okay but mass is annoying me more and more.
The Official Vanilla MP server is CPU/MV Enabled. I've heard all the whining so many times, and I disagree 100% - CPU is not some arbitrary limitation. Despite what misconceptions some people have, you really do not 128 Advanced constructors, 256 turrets, 512 RCS's and 1024 generators or even "combat decoys" to build a viable CV. What you need are skills. Your creativity isn't being limited, except by you. It takes far more creativity to make do with less. You also have to keep in mind that anyone else you'd run into on servers using CPU are going to have the same constraints - they're not going to be coming at you with 1000 guns either. As for the cost of individual building blocks - it's low enough to be nearly irrelevant as well.
You might be missing the point. It is not just how much you can have on your ship but how much you can have on your person. when you mine a large rock and cannot even grab all the stone you get, that leads to frustration. Plus keep mind there is a 3rd limitation: Slot spaces. I mean not only can your character carry only x amount of weight and only x amount of vol, but they have a hard coded limit of x amount of block spaces in their backpack. There should be separate setting for personal mass, personal vol, as well as base/ship mass and base/ship vol.
As I said, I agree with CPU in principle and I mostly think it's working in the right direction. But there are some CPU values to some components that seem completely arbitrary and that turns off a lot of people. For example, I get that the number of structure blocks should effect CPU. But why would it matter if the structure is carbon fiber or hardened concrete? Both would require the same amount of atmosphere and power so why does hardened concrete cost so much more than carbon fiber? RCSs are way more expensive than they should.
The standard RCS CPU value isn't bad. You should, in most builds, need 1-2 of these at most. The RCS 2 values have always been off the charts, making them nearly unusable, save for very small, high-tier combat CV's that you want to induce nausea in while fighting. Hardened Concrete is a BA-only material, and CPU where bases are concerned... ehh.. as long as you have enough fuel storage, you can pretty much ignore CPU, since bases are immobile. The loss of thruster output is meaningless.
A lot of the CPU balance isn't the best, but that's not a fault of the system itself. That's just balancing or changing up how the CPU extenders work (like how they work in Reforged Galaxy for example). I couldn't go back to playing without mass/volume/cpu anymore. Without it makes building everything too easy and was one of my biggest complaints about the game back before either system was added. I could build an all-in-one, do everything the best possible, super cheap, super fast, max armor/weapons/cargo/constructor fighter SV and CV, for stupid cheap. Didn't even need anything beyond what you found on the starter planet, orbit, and moon.
You know, I think I do more actual engineering with my EGS ships than I ever did with my SE ships. I need dozens for different craft for scouting, gathering, hauling, and fighting just for starters in EGS. In SE, I'd make a mining ROV, an atmospheric cargo ship to carry it around, and STO cargo ship to do things in space, and then get bored because I'd exhausted all of the game's content at that point. Survivors are twice the engineers those so-called space engineers are. Here's something to try for a different perspective. Start a new game with CPU and mass & volume on, but then unlock the whole tech screen with the console as soon as you land. This means you'll have to deal with resource gating instead of experience point gating. Every POI becomes a chance for a leap forward in progression. Your capacity to use anything you come across makes you hungry for every scrap you can get your multitool on. In this play environment, CPU becomes a vital governing factor to keep you from just welding more and more devices onto your hover barge. The need for the gold and infrastructure required to make optronics pushes you towards far better gameplay than the dinosaur massacres demanded by tech point costs.
They never needed to add CPU to fix that. Proper thought out balancing of power, mass, thrust etc would have fixed it.
