First draft of player skills allowing to change item properties (for now only Damage, more properties will come soon): For now this is only usable with the Dialogue system. There you set up skills with e.g. Player.Skills['yourSkill'] = 1.5. That skill (yourSkill = 1.5) can then be used in the ItemsConfig.ecf to modify the 4 properties you see below (Damage, BulletSpread, etc. If you think other values make sense too, please let us know. BlocksConfig.ecf comes next to change RangeLY for WarpDrive etc.). For example with a Pistol: Mod.Damage: "Damage + Player.Skills['yourSkill'] * 2" That way, properties are different handled per player - depending if the player skilled it or not. - Modded item properties via player skills: added BulletSpread, ReloadDelay, Recoil - BlocksConfig: added MarketPrice property - Added console command 'itemmods' to show the active modifications of the held item of the local player.
I think it's a good idea, but for some attributes, it doesn't make sense. For example, If I'm a player with low skill, the "BulletSpread" is a product of the weapon, not the player skill. When my skill increases, the "BulletSpread" for the weapon should never change. Here's my thoughts point by point: *"BulletSpread" = not a player skill, that's a product of weapon quality *"Recoil" = That's a product of the weapon, not the player skill (trust me in real life I know) *"ReloadDelay" = This is a good one, faster as the player gets higher skill *"Damage" = I'm really not sure about this.. it's a product of what the weapon is, the range from target, and the actual player targeting (real life skill, not virtual). I would think that "Damage" was a product of other factors, calculated, and not directly modified by player skill level. Note: Typically, in most other games, the player 'skills' as they player gains levels are the physical attributes (health, stamina, food) - their max values would increase - with the player picking which skill per level. They are not really 'skills', but 'player attributes'. I've not seen a player-based modifier applied before to doing damage; it has always been the weapon quality.
I dont completely disagree with much of what Lord Sapito said, but I do want to comment a bit on Bulletspread and Recoil. Firearm accuracy (bullet spread) is nearly completely user dependent. Even with todays technology, most firearms are inherently more accurate than any user can get out of it. Accuracy is influenced, for the most part, by three different factors: MOA of the rifle, quality of the ammunition, and skill of the user. This is why if two different people use the same firearm accuracy will be different. The firearm didnt change, the user did. So being more "skilled" would absolutely have an impact on the deviation of impact points with a firearm. Even if only applied to fully automatic fire, someone more skilled with the weapon would be better able to control it and keep the projectiles in a smaller impact area. This goes along with recoil. Proper firearm handling is a large part of mitigating firearm recoil. Yes, the recoil "force" itself is unchanged, but how that force is managed is. Along with that are other factors such as size, strength, and stance of the shooter. So yes, the recoil of a firearm doesnt change, but the effect that recoil has on accurate firing most certainly is based on the user. As far as Reload delay and damage, I am in agreement. Higher skilled shooters can reload a weapon much faster. As far as damage, a bullet does what a bullet does. What matters is where that bullet goes. So if you hit someone in the vitals it will "do more" than if you hit them in non-vitals. But as it is, all NPCs are just "head" and "Everything else", so complicating the hit box may not be worth the squeeze.
I suppose this a more RPGish aspect to the game., plus the ability to be moded through scenarios. A welcome feature. We should know min and max values, please.
ChumSickle has good points.. however, I do think the BulletSpread is most applicable to shotguns.. and that's what I was thinking about in that one (my favorite in-game).. because the bullets (bird seed whatever) will spread no matter the skill level.. nature of shotguns.
Absolutely, for shotguns, the spread is going to be what its going to be. And I doubt eleon is going to get as detailed as adding multiple chokes and multiple shot type.
Maybe the proper term should be "bullet deviation", although it has nothing to do with physics (ballistics or air friction) in the game. I remember when playing the old Delta Force series : we could clearly see the bullets tracers, how they would curve at long range and how players had to adjust shots accordingly... 20 or so years ago...
Does this feature open up the possibility for armor mods to affect weapons? I'm thinking along the lines of a "gunner rig" mod that slows you down, but reduces reload and recoil on miniguns to nothing.
My .02 as someone who is familiar with firearms, is that player skill would increase accuracy, handling, and reloading of firearms. Damage, however, should be tied directly to the weapon itself (better quality weapons could do more damage) and the ammo that's being used.
I think a pretty nice option would be to add armor mods that assist in defending against specific attacks...i.e. ballistic(kinetic) v energy. That way we could customize our armor a bit depending on the situation. Heading into a fight with the Zirax, may need to balance ballistic V energy...heading into an abandoned POI, better double up the ballistic.
I think we can do that with weapons inflicting specific buffs/ debuffs, and having corresponding resistances on armor mods. The problem is that most weapons only inflict "damage" with no distinction... apart from the flame thrower and WeakDebug rifle : these also inflict "buffs". If we can add "buffs" to weapons then we can create "specific weapon damage". Then we need to match proper protection with the armor mods, which now seem limited to Armor, Heat, Cold, Radiation, PowerFac, StaminaFac, SpeedFac, JetpackFac, JumpFac, FoodFac and Oxygen. We could probably make "freezing" or "stamina drain" or "hunger" guns... ^^
OMG - cringe. Damage from a gun becomes a player skill. Really? Billions of bugs and this seems the standout thing to work on?
It's good to see the first steps towards player character progression. Its baffling to me that people seem to be complaining about player skill increasing damage or whatever, when this is a thing I've encountered in pretty much every game with rpg elements I've played. It's a fun mechanic, and I am looking forward to it being developed more!
I can also see the view of some rpg youtubers who think that 'players skill level' should have nothing to do with how much damage a bullet does. Yes it's a lot easier than bringing more weapons and different ammo into the game...
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make spoon. The abundance or scarcity of new weapons has no impact on whether this is a fun feature nor does the opinion of some random youtubers. The only other major survival game I have experience of is Conan Exiles, and if I recall you can increase weapon damage there through character skill trees. I liked that too so have no problem with this.
My point is, while you are ok with bullets having variable damage depending on skill level, other would prefer to do more damage depending on what weapon and ammo you are using. Everyone is different.
These two things are not mutually exclusive in any way, nor did I even suggest that only character skill should determine damage. It's good to have variable weapon types. Again, this is a staple of most such games I have played, so really not seeing the issue?
I'm sure one could come up with just about any science fiction explanation as to why "skills" do what they do. This important thing is that player avatars can have properties that affect the those of used items.
