Flattening the Death Loop

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by The Big Brzezinski, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. The Big Brzezinski

    The Big Brzezinski Captain

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    Also, fish don't use guns. Makes it easier to get back in and grab everything. The Cyclops is pretty much an underwater CV, so you can respawn from it as well. I guess that makes BZ's Seatruck one of those overgrown SVs people insist on living out of.

    Anyway, the idea is that you lose your progress, not your agency. Losing equipment isn't a big problem when you've got spare armor and weapons sitting around waiting for you to get killed in a POI. If you're just starting out and have to fend off a drone attack on your first base, dropping all your guns even once maybe spell the effective end of your run.

    It's a world difficulty option, Equipment on Respawn or something like that. You can keep nothing, everything, or just the stuff in your toolbar.
     
    #81
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  2. Pembroke

    Pembroke Commander

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    But isn't that choice already there in the difficulty settings? There's the section "PLAYER" on top-left and there you have "Keep inventory on death" that gives you the choices: "Nothing", "Everything", and "Toolbar items only". The default is "nothing" i.e. you lose all when you die. Just change it to "Everything" if you want to keep your entire inventory.

    Edit: Ninjaed by "The Big Brzezinski"...
     
    #82
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  3. J'ee

    J'ee Lieutenant

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    Talk to the server owner, not Eleon. Eleon has already given us the option at the start of a new server or singleplayer game, how much impact death actually has. You can leave all your stuff, leave some of your stuff, or guess what, leave none of your stuff and take it all with you at respawn. It is therefore useless to discuss death loops with the developer. Your problem isn't with the developer, who has provided a solution. Your problem is with the sadistic game server owners like Spanj :D who configure maximum loss for the "Keep Inventory On Death" option and then go ahead and gleefully get themselves--the server owners playing on their own servers--into a death loop, on their own box. Absolute sadomasochists. :D Talk to those jokers, not Eleon. Eleon has provided you a complete solution to the death loop problem. The problem is nobody is using it.

    Or you can just be like me and edit the gameoptions file. Hitpoints x10! Anti-aircraft missile to the face? Pfff, just a thousand hps bruh.
     
    #83
  4. Zaflis

    Zaflis Commander

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    Yeah i forgot about that, i have had a long break from the game and just reading up here from time to time if they have made changes to the game that make it more playable yet.

    I was more referring to the part with combat steel increased hitpoints. The only problem i see with config editing is that i might accidentally make POI's and enemy ships harder as well. How nice it would be if they used unique set of blocks that players can't use, or maybe they already do?

    Anyways we can make big improvement by editing ship shields alone to 10x or more stronger, they normally break far too fast. But then again think about it of this edit of mine if there are NPC ships who'd use same shield blocks as me with the increased regen rate...

    Edit: So the solution should be for me to add new stronger blocks that enemies surely can't use (because they didn't even exist at the time the designers made them). I only wish there were ready collections for configs like these.

    And then again if i do make a ship with these new blockID's then it's no longer workshop compatible.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
  5. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Use the actual wood blocks and make them stronger and airtight.
     
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  6. J'ee

    J'ee Lieutenant

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    Nope, it specifically says just you, in fact breaks it down into separate values for male or female player characters. They are both the same in vanilla, including weight (?). The enemies are handled in a separate file altogether.
    If you think this is entirely unbalanced, keep in mind that you still start the game with the same amount of available hitpoints as vanilla, just a different denominator. Also, food and healing items/equipment still heals you the same amount, so there's a higher cost to healing yourself up if you have more hitpoints. And you can still be oneshotted at 5000 hitpoints under certain circumstances, like exploding blocks, an artillery round to your face, and those big turrets take off hitpoints awful fast. Also in the case of Reforged Eden, that mod pretty much doesn't care how many hitpoints you have, if you're caught outside with space drones and no ship no mo'. Just change to 1000 if you'd prefer to be two-shotted by rocket Zirax.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
  7. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    I think he meant that when modding in general (blocks items and stuff) it's possible that since some things are also used by enemies they get even more advantages from this. It's mostly projectiles (some), blocks and devices (shields, tanks and gens toughness, etc).
     
    #87
  8. J'ee

    J'ee Lieutenant

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    I have modded shields, yes. They are far stronger than vanilla, but indeed, the Zirax have shields which are, too. However, I had to mod the Zirax shield generators separately since they are actually separate devices. They have their millions of shield points, I have my less strong generators, but mine recharge. Have you ever seen Pentaxid in Zirax tanks? I haven't, so I assume RP-wise they get recharged by way of a CV stopping by for that purpose, while I'm not looking. Either way, their shields get taken down by attrition, while I just go broke from lack of Pentaxid, since I made each crystal still give the same amount of shield. :p

    But yes, there is a point to be had, here--it is very possible that some weapons which I have modded are much deadlier now for both sides. In Vermillion's RADOS missile base, for example, the pulse laser cannon there--that's not an in-atmosphere weapon, and in Spanj's playthroughs at that base, it didn't fire. But after I modded it so that it could fire in atmosphere for my purposes, it nearly killed me in that base. :D What with new POIs and Zirax using non-Zirax weaponry in abundance, this gets tricky, fast, but seems worth the effort overall.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2022
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  9. Searcher

    Searcher Lieutenant

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    well... you must die in survival games from time to time to appreciate the dangers and challenges. but surviving means actually not dying.

    basically there are only 2 ways to solve this. either accept the death loop as a part of the lore like Valheim does (you are an immortal soul in the afterworld) or make death irreversible in the lore with a lot of autosaves and a finger always on a quicksave button like most of the games do.

    in the current lore the death loop is absolutely normal. enemies have spawn platforms, you have cloning devices, everyone spawns and the game actually forces you to die a lot by dropping enormous armies on you or dropping a zirax with a shotgun on your head from a ceiling who one shot kills you before you even notice him. and the game does this a lot! the question in this case is about making this loop acceptable by players.

    this is not normal that your inventory drop despawns, a gun is not an ice-cream to melt on the floor. but this is also really strange that your armor can be cloned. the simplest solution that i see is to make cloning machines be able to save your blueprint like you do for your ships. like an armor everything that was in the blueprint remains in your inventory in the state it was when you died. everything else drops and has to be picked up again. maybe instead of despawning it should move to a nearest container or enemies inventory like it was suggested here before.

    the other way is to never die but it's impossible for this game. i did try reloading but there are 2 problems with this. first, it is very slow. saving takes a while, loading takes a lot, deleting old saves takes forever. second the content of crates and loot drops change after load! so you lose your loot anyway if you saved before finding it. so i came to a solution to emulate reloading by zooming to my loot in god mode. this is fast, this doesn't produce multiple save points, this doesn't reset crates contents. i want an option that is as close to that as possible.

    but the game should not put me into situation where it makes sure i die in this case. i should nearly die a lot, but there shouldn't be an instakill situation behind every corner. levels are not designed for multiple near deaths. you have to walk enormous distances in already empty corridors to heal and repair and then go back again. this will be a total redesign of the game. the last christmas chapter says that there isn't going to be a redesign like that. the game will want you to die more and more.

    as for me the death loop is fine as long as nothing despawns and it doesn't take forever to come back to where you were after every death trap. and a blueprint of yourself is a solution with an option to respawn really close to the place where you died.
     
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