Feedback Required 1.9.10 EXP: Standalone Tutorial - Feedback

I went through it, but I'm not really sure what to say about it. It's good. Starting players in space and getting them out there as soon as possible is probably the best possible way of anchoring expectations constructively. All the important topics seemed to be covered. Despite being the step-by-step proscriptive tutorial one should expect, there's still plenty of room for experimentation. The drone base in particular was a very good first dungeon. Only note I really have to add is maybe bring attention to how players can skip through a step in a quest if they've already it, such as placing generators or fuel tanks on the farm BA. Even then, the objectives seem to be very adaptable already.

If Empyrion was ever to have a free demo, this tutorial scenario would be a great vertical slice of content to offer.

 

I can only provide a bit of feedback on the tutorial since I lost patience with it part of the way through, but here are my notes:

• At the beginning there is a generator with a question mark encouraging the player to go look in there. This is fine as it's an explainer on heat and radiation. However, the popup explaining about it DOES NOT PAUSE THE GAME. Thus the player can actually gain heat and/or radiation status effects just while reading the popup. Honestly, as a whole this sort of popup really needs to not be in the game (either pause in single player or at least allow at least basic input around it such as at least allowing the player to move, which would be multiplayer friendly anyway.) I might add that the error message popups have the same basic problem (I once had one pop up while an enemy base was wrecking my ship's shields and I barely could get away in time because it kept popping up. This is not a common thing, but it is something to consider.)
• The discussion with the captain at the beginning is confusing. In particular if you ask him why he locked your door the second time he just sort of screams at you "why do you know me so well" or something like that and I'm just left flabbergasted trying to figure out what even the heck is going on. It doesn't explain why and is just so weird and out of context to the point of being almost crazy that it's just going to confuse new players.
• The AI "in the survival tool" (eg the tutorial equivalent of IDA) tells the player to salvage wrecks as a great source of "iron." Except of course that is false. Iron being the word for an actual resource which you will not, in fact, get from salvaging wreck blocks. Clearly it is meant to say "steel plates" which may technically be made from iron but which cannot be reversed to give you iron. (All cats are animals, but not all animals are cats.)
• The explanation during salvaging that first wreck says to "cut apart so another falls" or something roughly like that. This is a tad bit confusing. I think it could imply to a new player that all they have to do is salvage one block and the one next to it will simply fall off, which of course is not true. It should better explain that you have to remove all supporting blocks (and perhaps it's a good idea to add here that this only applies on a planet, not is pace.)
• In the tutorial, volume limits are turned on (and a later part of the tutorial spends a considerable length of time teaching the player how to deal with them) but it doesn't really explain the specifics to the player. In particular, at the beginning it might be a good idea if it told you (especially as you approach that limit from picking things up) about it because it then becomes a very painful process carting all the stuff you're inclined to gather around the starting point to a different location (eg the old farm since the tutorial basically has you convert that into a base.)
• When it tells you how to cancel items on the construction queue it only explains the most extreme "abort at all costs" method of turning it off then removing everything from the queue which, of course, loses any materials currently being utilized. While it certainly is useful to know there is an "if you must abort it right now" option, I think it's more useful to know that you need only left click (or shift, ctrl, shift+ctrl left click) to reduce the queue down to 1 so it finishes the current item without losing anything. I'd say it's beneficial to mention both methods.
• I didn't feel that it really informed the player well that they needed to be checking their tech tree after every single level. The wording to me felt like it was just saying to check it once. A new player may not necessarily realize that they need to be going in there and unlocking stuff frequently. Especially since the tutorial frequently just simply gives the player whole blocks to place rather than requiring them to create specific things.
• I think the tutorial should explain why players would want to ensure a base is airtight even on a planet with a breathable atmosphere -- specifically that it guarantees a specific temperature and protection from weather. The tutorial barely mentions anything of this sort and I think a segment specifically dedicated to fixing the "old farm" would be a good idea. Since this is a planet that doesn't have hostile conditions that could get the player killed, it provides them plenty of time to actually look around and find it. However, the base POI itself possible should be cleaned up a bit so it's not so hard to figure out how to make it airtight (in fact I never really did succeed. There's presumably some decorative block that is not airtight or something.) This would prepare them for dealing with basically every real planet in the game since most (if not all) do actually have potentially too high/low temperatures and/or hostile weather at times.
• The explanation of how to find treasure just completely confused me. Which is too bad because somehow as much as I've been playing this game I actually did not know that was a thing. I thought the implication was to find the most central point of the red lines, but it seems this is not the case and the only way I could find the treasure in the quest to move on was to specifically go after the quest marker itself (which is definitely not the most central point of the red lines, but instead seems like an edge of them.) This definitely needs better explanation.
• Just a minor side note, "growing plot" is written as "growing pot." This may seem a silly nitpick, but a growing plot is a block that needs to be placed a specific way, whereas "growing pot" (which isn't technically in this game) would imply a pot you could set out and stick a tree or something in (like the decorative plant blocks.) On that note, it would be a good idea to emphasize that growing plots must be placed in range of a UV light (and explain that range.)

I ultimately got tired of dealing with it spending so many steps basically just making me learn how to use the remote inventory access to deal with volume limits with multiple portions of the tutorial basically dedicated to this. It's worth noting that most default games and most online servers have volume and CPU limits turned off because it just isn't fun going through all the extra steps. I'm not saying don't explain this -- it's definitely something to learn as the player may actually want them on or play with someone who does -- I am just saying that far too much of the tutorial process is spent on just dealing with the volume limits specifically (salvaging large items, etc) and by that point I at least really just wanted to move on. (I was tempted just to manually mark segments of the quests completed so I could move on, but I would surely have to skip over so much as to completely disrupt the tutorial anyway.)

 

I disagree. Right at the beginning of the game is the best time to teach players how to manage mass & volume and CPU. It means they won't have to go through the frustration of having to relearn skills they just started developing. This in turn will mean more players will use these features as a matter of course. The fact that most people don't use them because they've gotten used to playing without them is exactly the problem this part of the tutorial can help fix.

 

Actually I didn't say it wasn't. I agree that it is the best time to teach it. I was only saying it focused a bit too much on it with several things basically repeating the same basic functionality to hammer it in more than necessary.

I can't speak for everyone, but I just don't like dealing with it, not because I got used to the other way but because it becomes tedious. Especially since so many really important parts simply can't even be picked up at all. YMMV of course, but that has nothing to do with the tutorial but rather with balancing and such as a whole. I'd really much rather see a Space Engineers sort of system if it came to that (which makes a lot more sense than just wirelessly popping a giant thing you can't carry from a container out of your hand.) Eg if it must be done, I don't think this was really the best way to do it. But, again, YMMV on opinions on that. Regardless, a tutorial early on or later on has no difference in regards of whether or not it is tedious, that's more just down to player preference as a whole. Either way though, my point was just that it was feeling redundant with a lot of rinse and repeat at that stage when I just wanted to move on to proper base building mechanics.



Actually, that reminds me of something I forgot to make a note of. I think there should be a tutorial for making a base from scratch (perhaps a separate thing entirely.) Many things like this and some of the SP story stuff just hands you basics, but then there are times (such as MP or many scenarios) where you need to build your base completely from scratch instead of finding a farm building with food growing, storage, and a constructor conveniently waiting. There are several steps I think a newbie won't know. Especially with some of the more recent changes to the "Robinson Protocol" and etc.

 

I use mass & volume as a standard feature, and didn't find the tutorials about it to be different from normal practice. Connection to external inventories and using the connected toolbar is part of minute to minute gameplay when you use these options. It touches everything, from harvesting to construction to trading. I can see how it could become tiresome if you're used to moving everything through your personal inventory regardless of size. That's exactly why it's important to get players acclimated early.

 

Actually I frequently make use of remote logistics. At this point you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. They asked for feedback. That was my feedback. I have no more to say on that.

BTW, as a side note, the tutorial planet is beautiful. Love it. I don't know if it was hand made or just a nice pregen, but I liked it.

 

Well, you said it seemed tedious. To me, who usually plays with these settings, it felt natural and normal. Contrasting feedback from contrasting play styles is to be expected. I'd prefer the contrast also be understood.

 

Does the tutorial go any further then the buried container? After moving the items nothing happens even after running all over the farm building.

 

I think you're meant to stick a core on it so you can use the drop menu for containers on the logistics screen.

 

I did. I just started a new scenerio and it progressed further.

 

I tested the tutorial. I have about 150h on Empyrion, so not very much I would say and there are many things I still don't know, and was hoping to learn new things.
Unfortunately, I'm stuck in the old farm. The tutorial tells to mine some promethium, which I did. Once done, it tells to go back to the farm to fill the fuel tank of the farm. I don't understand the link between mining promethium and filling the tank. So don't know what to do...

 

It should have mentioned that you can process the promethium ore into fuel packs in a portable constructor.

 

Ah ok thanks, it's the missing part ! I'll test this. Thanks

 

Well I crafted Promethium fuel packs and filled the tank at 100% it didn't trigger. Had to do it manually through the PDA. Now the PDA is empty and I don't have anymore instructions ! I broke everything !!

 

Hi James!
Thanks for testing!!

- Can you check if you still have your logfile about this session?
Could you post it here?

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Do you still remember the order of things you played through?

Maybe compare with this here -
(get to farm)
- Shoot farm core, place your own, place generator & tank, control panel info.
- Craft biofuel in a camp nearby. Return to farm.
- Fill in biofuel into farm by using control panel. <- Edit: Part of your run got stuck here. Will fix this.
- Check out farm plots / food processor / fridge, get a Multitool
- Use multitool to get more farming plots, find a CPU extender and a solar capacitor
- Return to farm, place both blocks, info about CPU and Solar
- Go for promethium
- Get redirected to a different base, collect ore scanner
- Mine promethium, ambush, get directed to HV 'Farpoint' workshop next to farm.
(...)
--

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EDIT: I think I found the issue. Sorry, this is a bug.
Much thanks for reporting!!

(Still, please compare your experience to the list of chapters above. Just to be sure that there is not another issue hidden here.)

- You can 'salvage' your run, if you godmode back to the teleporter you arrived on the planet. Dive straight down into the water right below it, clip into the ground. There is a core with a switch. Flip it.
It will activate the debug chapters.
Start the chapter 'ready the builders workshop'. Then godmode into the bunker-building next to the farm, directly into the hangar area. It should continue from there.

 

Hi Needleship,

Thank you for taking time to look into this. I have tried to activate the debug chapters but didn't manage to do it. I'm a bit new to this game. I managed to switch to godmode through console command. But I don't really remember where is the teleporter I arrived on the planet !

Is it below Flotsame base ?


I found this, but didn't find a switch to flip.

 

Hi James!
First pic, middle upper edge, in the direction of the stranded fridge, would be a box floating in the water. Below that one.
Should be hidden by the fronds of the rightmost palm in the pic.
( Location is close to: 10757, 18.9, 415. - - Console command 'di' for on-screen coordinates.)

 

Hi Needleship, thanks. Found it !

 

Was having fun with the new guided tutorial, it is actually giving me a much nicer intro to the game than when I had previously tried to play. However, I was at the abandoned mining site, where it first introduces using the drone, and then the tutorial mentioned something about a tower, but I didn't notice it in time to read it. It told me to go back to the beginning area to a beach marker, and as I was approaching the area the marker disappeared and the tutorial is not telling me anything else; due to this happening I am not sure what to do to proceed at this point.


*Edit - Ended up starting a new tutorial save, and it turns out that must have been completely bugged on the previous save. I was not even supposed to get a mission telling me to return to the beach marker yet, instead I was supposed to have received the mission telling me to go to the potential settlement after the copper mining station.