Seemed like a thread we needed. To make a blueprint in 1.10, you need to have learned the templates for all its blocks. The implications are in the process of being understood. So, please share your experiences with it.
For my part, I haven't noticed much of a difference. My starting methodology is to jump start my resource gathering and logistics ASAP. First I do a level 7 HV miner, followed by a level 7 combat SV and a level 10 cargo SV. On a Ningues start, I was able to build all of these just as I've done in previous versions without issue. I had the resources to build the cargo SV slightly before I had the large thruster template it requires. Next step is to strip mine the Crown moons and build a starter CV. Farming golems and other nasties for tech points will be trivial with the SV, and is something I'd have had to do in previous versions anyway to reach level 25, usually on Sienna. So for me, at least, the impact of the new template requirement has been minimal, bordering on trivial. I'm not sure what it was supposed to do based on what I've seen.
Yeah the change is a little underwhelming when taken by its self. It could be that it is just a first pass at refining the current system. I think its best to take a wait and see approach on this if/until we get some more info from Elion.
The missing bit is getting the points you use in the tech tree. The introduction of classes makes what you put points into more critical. I downloaded the experimental and, like you, I didn't find the new mechanism a challenge because I like to go straight to a poverty build SV as opposed to an HV or BA- why invite the Zirax to bomb me? On the default Akua I was able to reach level 8 without leaving "happy valley" (where the hotdogs grow as thick as moss in a rain forest and carbon fiber nuggets abound.) If experience points gained by any source were divided by your current level, then picking flowers to get to level 25 wouldn't work anymore. Some variation of that sort of mechanic would make choosing what you put points into a lot more critical as you went on. Taking out a golem on foot with a shotgun at level 3 implies more of a learning experience compared with shooting one down with a gatling gun at level 20. You would want to make it so earning the points to unlock stuff kept going past L25 and make it impossible to open the whole tree with the points you get by reaching L25 IMO.
I disagree. The limitations of needing to unlock parts adds little to the game flow as a whole. It only adds to the experience the first couple of times you start. After that it's a chore. Not being able to build everything right off the bat is better limited by resource scarcity. The RPG elements tie into the rest of the gameplay almost not at all. I mean, lore-wise the player is pretty capable and well equipped. Still makes no sense how they learn to build a warp drive after picking flowers or shooting monsters. But regarding the factory, this change is a step in the right direction. A small one, granted.
I don't disagree with you there, but different people can find frustration and fun in the same stuff. The tech tree is a feature of the game, but if you grab the GameEvent that gets signaled by going up a level and trigger the console command to set yourself to that level the entire thing disappears. The economics of getting and spending them sort of presumes you want to have a tech tree in the first place- thingiverse in a box shouldn't actually require knowing how to build a warp engine to build one but it does in this game, the factory was an exploit of the tech tree and this plugs that hole. My major critique of the factory (that almost all of us exploit) is the hammer space it represents. With a suit constructor I can build a portable constructor that can hold the material required to build a CORE Warchain the same way the factory does. All it takes is energy and time. With constructor speed set to instant the time aspect all but disappears as do energy costs. What I can't do is build it, compress it into a zero mass non-inventory inventory item called a spawn block, transport it 130 LY across known space and rehydrate it in an instant. Making spawns a thing you built instead of an entry in the "Completed" section of a totally abstract game feature would be interesting. Saying you had to place a portable constructor to rehydrate one of these cubes defending it for as long inflating it took would add an interesting challenge. Throw in some animation and it might be fun to watch. My point was that by the time I hit level 25 I have tons of tech tree points I never bother to spend until I need to. I tend to agree with OP that this isn't adding much of a challenge but it does seem like a reasonable first step on adding complexity if you start to mess with more economic fiddling with tech tree points. Tech tree points can be a scarce resource.
Q: Is this a step in the right direction? A: Yes. We have to research stuff to build it "manually" already. I don't see why the Factory should be exempt. As it was before, it was possible to ignore the tech tree (at least in the blocks part), by simply spawning the vessels / structures one built in creative mode beforehand. Q: Does it fix the tech tree system? A: Not by any extent. As @imlarry425 mentioned above, picking flowers as a form of technological research is still valid. Q: What can be done to fix the tech tree? A: I think tech tree as a method of unlocking critical blocks needs to go altogether. In my humble opinion, the factor limiting the player's ability to build blocks and devices should be purely economical, and that the tech tree could provide bonuses to player operating the devices. But that is a whole different can of worms to open. What realistically could be done, if the devs want the experience of the player's character doing something to be the limiting factor, is separating the now singular Exp into several. There could be a "combat tree", progressing with killing things and destroying stuff, a "mining tree", progressing with harvesting mineral resources, an "agricultural tree" which progresses with gathering plants, a "production tree", progressed by making stuff in the constructors, and an "exploration tree", progressing with visiting new places and doing quests. Note, that, the way I see it, the basic things for all the aspects covered should be available right at the start of the game, with the respective "trees" unlocking advanced stuff. Q: What can be done to improve the Factory? A: It should exist as a physical entity within the game. This can be done in multiple ways. I believe the most optimal way to do it is the following: the factory computer block, that acts as a controller, and the factory frame blocks that set the boundary limit of the vessel built. I would also enjoy if the frame blocks need to be built in such a way that there are gaps no more than 5 blocks in the z axis apart, so that the frame is actually a somewhat expensive to build. And, of course, I would also like an animation of how the vessel is built block-by-block.
Agree and really like the idea of a factory block and factory frame blocks limiting blueprint spawn distance.
While it basically amounts to an additional form to fill out before you get your blueprint, it could probably be seen as a first step in the direction of something better. My own preference would be to show how many of each of these devices the blueprint now takes, so I can make them in my own constructor farms, cutting down factory times as a reward for building more base infrastructure. Replacement of the tech tree with some sort of research system would be welcome news as well. It would be nice to know if there's another shoe due to drop. Right now, it's moderately underwhelming. Just kinda puts more attention and emphasis on a very weak part of the game.
IMHO, this would have been great if implemented from the start. Now it seems there shall be a lot of 'unlearning' going on. In addition, I feel level locked BP's are redundant: If we are tech locked and the tch itself is level locked, having the BP level locked is unneeded. Perhaps at least I guess it can show a quick "power level' of sorts to let us see how early, mid game, late game a BP is? Other than that the player lever requirement is not needed.
Tech levels have never been a great barometer for progression. Material resources are a much truer measure of value. Having all the tech required to make a battleship means little if you haven't got a mountain of sathium blocks sitting around as well. One of the little chores I'd always do after finally getting starborne is rampage around in a Moorefield SV, killing golems and predators for tech levels and reputation. It was an odd one-time task that always felt out of place. Now it seems like it's just something I'll have to do sooner. It's not going to make a real big difference so long as 15 mm rounds are your primary research tool.
While I can understand the reasons for this change, I just hope the devs don't forget that some of us are more casual players, many of whom like to engage in gameplay aspects other than building. For me for example, I get ALL my ships from the workshop and spawn them in as needed for tasks I actually like doing. For players like me, there will need to be some indication of what needs unlocking in the tech tree for a BP or we may end up in a situation of being stuck unable to spawn a ship in for the sake of an single unlocked part which may actually be obvious to those more familiar with what it takes to build a ship. It really can't be simply left to guesswork to figure out what needs unlocking IMHO!
I agree with you but would like to add to it, what I think someone else suggested: Namely that we do away with he current tech tree and replace it with something more useful. Meaning the tech tree would not unlock things to build but it would allow you to customize your player build. Almost in a way that RE does with the class system and many MMO type games do now. Yes I know EGS is not a MMO but I think you are picking up what I am laying down so to speak.
Yes, I've seen that system. Kill 50 commanders to rank up to Master Sergeant Shooter Sergeant Important Person of Sergeants Extreme. It fills me with loathing. The idea that Empyrion would become yet another game ruined by RPG elements supplanting player skills is a depressing one. I like RPGs. I like guiding characters as they grow and learn new skills. But my avatar in Empyrion isn't the one flying the ships, designing the bases, or aiming the guns. I am. I stuck a suggestion thread up in the official Discord called Replace XP with Research Costs. For the purposes of this thread, I think it illustrates what good the 1.10 factory might do, provided that unlocking those required blocks poses an interesting question to answer. Mob grinding is not such a question.
Not having the factory check the tech tree left large parts of it just obsolete. Why have a tech tree at all when it doesn't matter? That of course doesn't mean the tech tree is perfect, but for me thats a different discussion. For the record, I also don't think its that bad. Having the factory check whether all components are researched is a good thing in my book. I would love a better visualisation of what tech is missing. Right now it shows a list of missing technologies by name, which will work, but some kind of ui marking in the tree to show what is missing for a selected blueprint would be preferrable.
well to be fair it could be other things that the example you cited. It could be "build your first cv" or "harvest this or that" or even "visit this type of star system, planet, whatever" The idea is to make it a bit more interesting. The current tech tree costs and no tech req for spawning BP's works nice for me. If we are changing this (and yes we are or course) then there should be an adjustment at least in the amount of UP one gets. IMHO the factory should not have both player level requirements and tech unlocked in addition to the material costs. We don't need 3 things, pick 2 lol.
Like the idea of this, as others have said feels like a step in the right direction. Will probably impact me a little more than others as I like to take my time at the start, and usually run out of unlock points which before wasn't an issue but will make me think a bit! Again, as others above have said this is hopefully starting to move towards a physical factory & redoing the whole progression system. For my preference I would be happy with a blueprints system, or harvesting research points from relevant things in the game - preferably tied into things like POIs which would help to tier the game (and give a reason for POI raiding - need to get the tech to take on the more difficult POIs which will give the tech to take on even more difficult enemies and so on). I'd be happy with some character stat progression without going full RPG tied into leveling up as well.
