Hey all, Just doing a POI this evening - Abandoned Reactor - and it's changed since last time it did it, in a good way. However, I am experiencing an odd "Lag" issue. This isn't your traditional low-performance or network issue type lag, but more an "event" lag. I'll explain what I mean... Performance is GREAT in this POI, and in general. My FPS limit is set to 60, which is fine for Empyrion as it doesn't need super twitch reflexes like some games, and FPS looks perfectly smooth to me at this setting. However, sometimes odd things happen, as if some element of the game is "lagging" behind the visuals. A good example of this is successfully avoiding a Melee attack by a critter, yet still taking damage. So, I'm close to a melee critter, I dodge away (usually jetpack assisted) and am 10+ metres away and I suddenly take damage. I didn't take any damage when near the critter, but did when I was well out of range. It's like if they start their attack animation when you're relatively close, you WILL take damage even if you're far away when the animation finishes. An old old issue. I just had this now, BUT, the attack animation didn't even start until I was already mid-air and a good three blocks away at least, yet I took damage moments later. Not quite as annoying as being attacked through blocks, but pretty irksome to readily avoid an attack, then take damage anyway. Another example, which is a new one to me, was taking fire from a Sentry Turret just now. I popped left around a corner, saw the Turret, so quickly dodged back behind the wall. A fraction of a second later I heard the Sentry fire, and saw the laser bolt fly past me to the left, clearly missing both me and the cover. A wild shot that missed, sorta cool. However, I then took damage and a dermal burn, despite being 100% behind cover. The Sentry didn't fire until I was behind cover, so it's not a case of being hit by a hit-scan weapon but the effect travelled more slowly, like these weapons do. The Sentry didn't even fire until I was behind cover. The event went, popping slightly out of cover to scope the room. Spot Sentry turret (not already aiming at me) so I pop back behind cover. I then hear the Sentry fire, and the bolt zooms past me. It missed. Then, I'm suddenly injured. This is perhaps similar to the melee critter issue, the turret perhaps started to react (enemy spotted) when it had LoS on me, but by the time it'd actually turned to face my direction and fire, I wasn't there any more and behind cover. Perhaps because the "shoot at enemy" logic started before I was back behind cover, the game counted it as a hit incorrectly? Little issues like this are taking away from the experience, yet have been around for a very long time now. I play as a nimble character, but it doesn't work well when the game decides to count a clear miss as a hit. It's like the timing for events like this are on a different timer, so to speak. I.e. my game is visually updating at 60fps - really not a high frame rate in 2024 - however turret and critter actions are updating far less frequently. Pure speculation on my part, just trying to explain what I'm experiencing. To reiterate: Game is running very well indeed, fps is good and controls feel responsive, I have no complaints there at all. However, certain "events" seem to be running a second or two behind the visuals / player experience at times. I wonder if others see this too? Final point: The Abandoned Reactor is a great early-ish mid-level POI. Basic upgraded weapons seem to be able to deal with any enemies fairly quickly. The careful player (me) can generally scout / carefully look ahead and counter any Sentry Turret, either sending the Drone to scout ahead - which does alert the turret, likely causing Drone loss - or simply a quick peek and ducking back into cover. There are a few "behind you!" type surprises, where a hidden turret will ambush the player, but, generally, a careful approach will allow the player to eliminate any turrets before they can legitimately hit the player. Additionally, I've not experienced any delayed spawns thus far - which is perhaps another example of event lag. Just sharing my experiences here. I'm not a huge First Person Shooter player these days, but I do like to engage in this activity from time to time. Plus, I need to loot to upgrade my CV...I'm over CPU so gold and hopefully a salvaged CPU extender would be great find...
In my opinion, this ought to be reported as a bug. It sure can't be intended. I also enjoy playing with a nimble, cautious style, with generous use of cover & timed dodging, yet this issue always seems to discourage that. (Disheartening to know that's still happening while I'm contemplating trying to play again... though it IS good to know that POI might be working better for strategic infiltration gameplay than it used to.) Hopefully this can be looked into. It does sound like some issue with how often the game checks for the player's location relative to the enemy (not checking often enough maybe), or the game is indeed deciding that we're in position to be hit, yet not accounting for the realistic delay in actual attack & the fact that we might have moved. If so, it should probably re-check more often (once to trigger the attack/projectile, then some more times to see if the player is still there, & only apply damage if they are). Or something like that... Guess we'll see what the team says.
I think, at this point, it's considered a "feature" @ZaCloud as it's been around for a while, and I'm sure the devs are aware of it lol. I've mentioned this issue - specifically with melee critters able to damage the player when they're out of range - many a time. It's pretty common for me. The turret hitting me like that though was new. It does suggest some sort of timer frequency issues for checking player position, but that is speculation as I'm unaware of the internal workings of Empyrion / Unity engine. While my game runs at a (limited to) 60fps just fine, do we know the "Sim speed"* fps? Is it less? Even at say 30fps I'd expect it to be fine. Sometimes, when these issues occur, it's like the game thinks I'm where I was one, two or even three seconds ago based on damage taken. * Ages ago, the game ran natively at 50fps. As such, if you set it to say 60fps, it'd not be smooth. Set a 50fps limit however and it'd be noticeably smoother, gun play and general weapon handling would feel better. I don't think that limit still exists though, but something is not quite in-sync with reality aka player position. As I'm just playing solo, perhaps I should try to snag a save near a melee critter and see how reliably, or not, the issue can be re-created. I suspect actively waiting for the attack animation to start then dodging will do it. However, for me, I'm usually dodging away before the critter starts to wind-up its attack - I keep my distance - yet I'm still getting hit. I'd suggest the issue is occurring more often than before currently. That said, I have been raiding more POI's as they're generally working better. One thing about trying to recreate something from a Save in Empyrion though... You might experience something when playing "live", but reload that save and it'll turn out differently. I tried to snag a save of the turret aiming lag issue but, upon loading, the turrets work perfectly for a shot while. So, I saved when my turrets were non-responsive, they continued to be non-responsive for 10-15 seconds (an extreme example) before they started shooting. I reloaded that save and my turrets were on fire engaging instantly and progressing to the next target promptly. It didn't last though, and they degraded again. I did get some cheesy spawns later in this POI, some Nightmares popping in right in front of me from an invisible spawner as I walked down level. Plus a couple of instances of "Pull this lever = enemies flooding the previously cleared corridor behind me". They're pretty much expected these days though. Being injured when not actually legitimately being hit was the most problematic though. As an aside, enemies still seem to have a lot of trouble navigating POI's, getting stuck on slopes etc. This causes them to clip slightly, which then can see them attacking through blocks, which is a bit of a pain. "Stay away from the walls" is good advice in some areas! Also, those Overseer dudes passing through 1x1 block doors is almost comical at this point lol. Generally though, I'd say being more mobile works well outside of these bugs. When rushed, I can generally gain enough distance to turn and fire and I'm getting pretty good at head shots. The Nightmare's zig-zag rush is a pain though, as they insta-turn so they instantly change vector, artificially making them harder to hit. I wish they moved in a more accurate way.
That's interesting. I've little experience with 7dtd having only tried it fairly briefly at friends years ago now. It'd be a shame if this was a baked-in Unity issue they've not fixed as it does quite heavily impact gameplay, particularly within POIs. I find it particularly annoying - in any game - when something doesn't work right an the player is punished for it. The reverse is true if the player benefits from such an issue, it becoming a potential exploit, bypassing the intended rules.
