Editing the topic of this thread. This is friendly chat not really about Windows vs Linux but just Linux chat. A big part of this post was left behind in another thread
What are you talking about, whether or not OpenGL outperforms DX11 is Game and Platform dependant. So this idea that DX11 outperforms OGL in all cases and therefore is strictly better is bunkum. Second, GFX driver support, as of this day, is every bit as good as Windows, Gabe Newell has spent a lot of money to insure that. DX12 is just MS's version of Mantle and Vulkan, they all operate VERY similarly, so at this point it's a choice between software freedom and proprietary lock-in. I have no problem with DX12 co-existing with the other 2, but the fact is that all the major game engine makers (Unity, Valve, Unreal) are going to go with Vulkan as their 1st-Class Citizen in the gaming ecosystem. Once Id is on the bandwagon, it's a done deal for sure.
No doubt, not even I can argue against the numbers. Fortunately, like I said, Vulkan, Mantle, and DX12 are VERY similar, so the problems that targeting DX11 causes for porting will probably be solved by the time these 3 techs mature (which is scheduled to happen around Q2 2016, or about a year from now.) Indeed, by the time you have DX12 fully targeted 90% of the optimization work needed for all three platforms should be complete. At this point, though, Empyrion should work out of the box with WINE as long as it supports earlier versions of DirectX.
Nothing wrong with a healthy debate. Linux is a great OS I use it daily. But its overall track record so far has not been great for gaming. I sometimes think it has gotten better but at times it feels like it has gotten worse. Will have to see what the future brings. But yeah number wise sadly you can't argue I think Linux Steam users were at about 1% the last time. I can only dream of a day that 90% of all games work great on Linux but we need to stop being hyped up on this stuff because it has not had a great ending so far. Think the debate was really not OS though think was more on the 1-2 week old announcement of Vulkan
This is true, but it's exciting for everyone, since this time around the Khronos group actually has the backing and input of the entire industry. From talking to devs of other projects, it looks like people will be really pleased with the way that the new API's work. It promises to cut out a great deal of porting effort, and promises much better performance in cases where a state tracker is not needed. Writing software that runs on any hardware that supports the software demands on any OS is the wave of the future, and it's all being set up now. The great thing is that the 3 new API's are similar enough to automate call conversion between them. I forsee a DX12-2-Vulkan lib in the future, most likely put out by the MONO group. I will get Empyrion working with WINE when it comes out and get the WineHQ DB page updated so others can follow.
Until Linux can be used by the PC noob, people that have no clue as to how these things operate, like windows does, it will forever be behind windows in sales numbers. Windows is simply easier. It matters not, which one is technically better. Bill Gates realised this and is the reason he is still one of the richest people to ever have lived. And release this game already Eleon !
Actually, market research indicates that most people have not ever installed an OS in their lives and never will, increasing Linux adoption will be all about getting OEMs to include it stock. See Steam Machines. Also, everyone in this thread seems to be operating on some seriously outdated info, our major GUI's are as easy to use as anything out of Microsoft. They should be, we ripped everything they did every chance we got. Most Linux distro's are just as easy to install, but that doesn't matter, since the userbase we covet does not do installations. Also, "I already know how to use this." is not equal to "Easy to learn to use" or "Easy to use once you have learned". Compare Enlightenment Window Manager vs Metro on the desktop. ( I know, totally unfair matchup, but these sort of bogus comparisons are the things I have to live with when I get the short end of them.) At this point we have resolved the major usability issue, package management and installation of applications. Also, Bill Gates dominated the industry thru having lots of money to buy the work of others, and being the first past the post with a working OS for generic IBM PC's at a time when the only competing OS for the same hardware could only be afforded with the pocketbook of academia . And this was before Windows! DOS is what conquered the industry. Gates took the industry with a sub-par command prompt. Windows came later. Additionally early versions of Windows were not known for their UI design, which did not survive a single major revision significantly unchanged. Long story short, Gates won not because he was good, but because he was first and loaded to begin with. Considering Linux is 7 years younger than Windows, I think we are doing pretty well. Also, since Linux supports legacy Windows code better than Windows does, it actually wins out on the area of backward compatibility, which is why I expect to be able to play the Empyrion Windows binary on Linux on release day without the devs needing to support my OS in particular. Piddle, if you wish to continue this conversation, may I suggest a separate thread? Back onto OP's topic, I'm really digging these screens, mind making a youtube video of the new Unity setup?
I have tried twice already, just stop bringing it up outside the proper thread, and I will reciprocate. Edit: Note I of course still reserve the subject of GFX technologies that are not OS specific as open, as that is still relevant to the discussion of Unity 5. Edit2: Maybe Elion should send off this new version to the people who made the last set of video's, I'm sure they would love to make a new set. Addtionally, the ship block skin looks old and worn, which is great for atmosphere, but it would be cool to have a block skin that looks shiny and new too.
I have started this thread to continue the Linux vs Windows Discussion, please keep this discussion here.
I find this highly inappropriate. to turn this into an us versus them thread when both OS have their own merits and great features. I can't speak for @Brokenshakles but I for one was have a friendly chat and I think we were also both pretty much finished. I think in the end the understanding is I just don't trust but wish it will work out with Vulkan because if it ends up being that little miracle I would be switching to Linux for my gaming PC down the road. I use Linux now more then Windows for all the servers I tend to. This was more about 2 men talking about Linux then having a contest.
Um. I'm not against Windows, and I think Kane understood I was trying to engage in reasoned debate while keeping it civil. Ammitedly, it got carried away in the wrong venue, and I wish it had been moved earlier, but at this point what is done is done. Anyways, this shouldn't be a thread about Linux VS Windows, it should be a thread about how each can improve the other. I am hoping it will work out with DX12, Vulkan, and Mantle, since all three are backed by large money and each of the companies that produce them have an interest in interopablity, at least public relations wise. That should mean guys like you will only have to write out your shaders once in a generic bytecode and then convert it to the proper format for your preferred API. This will cut out HUGE amounts of dev time in the long run, and having Unity 5 support multiple platforms is great for ALL the platforms it supports, as supporting a range of environments tends to expose bugs that would otherwise be impossible to find. I think what comes next is a great diversification of the Desktop market, and a partial merging of the console market into desktops for gaming. Microsoft has recently bungled their latest flagship releases, so there is an opening for Mac, Linux, and other, lesser known alternatives (BSD and ReactOS anyone?). Empyrion is already set up to take advantage of this, unlike SE, since major engine support for cross platform development is already there. Once we have a reliable Wayland -> Vulkan -> Video Driver pipeline, things are going to shift dramatically. At this point the biggest holdup are the GFX drivers, and those have to be provided by the manufacturer. On second thought, until this happens, its probably best that I just work with your software thru WINE, as that will take the burden of Linux support off of you fellows for now. Oh, and Piddlefoot, please don't make statements about Linux if you have not used a recent release of a major distribution in the last year. If you haven't, anything you think you know is seriously out of date, and probably is no longer true. I have no problem with people who have tried it and not liked it ripping on it for failing to meet their expectations. I do have a problem with people spreading FUD when they haven't used what they are trashing in a long while and are obviously stating things that were true 5 years ago, but are no longer true today. Also, go read "Pirates of Silicon Valley" for a history of Bill Gates and all the people he betrayed on his path to riches. I think you will find how he actually made his fortune to be quite enlightening.
Whether I have a new'' version'' of Linux or not does not give you the right to dictate to me, not to comment on the topic of lunix. Do you ever visit shops ? Windows is without question the most dominating OP system. Its on every laptop and tower in Harvey Norman and places like that, I totally stand by my comment, until Linux is as user friendly as windows it will never have the sales numbers,, its not about whats better technically, its about whats easiest for the average PC illiterate noob. Your post is all about ''if companies do this or that'' that's all garbage , do you honestly see any other OP system overtaking windows in the next 10 years ? Seriously ? Consider how many PC's exist on this planet now already running windows and why. And one other thing Drivers......Drivers for average noobs remember......For the millions of different devices.....lalalala Im not a huge fan of windows, infact it can be a right pig at times, but it is the easiest to use, install, or get drivers for. Oh and by the way its not ''trash talk'' or whatever you want to call it, if its true.
But it isn't true. If you think that the Gnome, KDE, or Enlightenment desktops are any harder to use than Metro, your either speaking in ignorance, or just lying. Every modern Linux distro has a Gui wizard installer these days, Windows is not exactly a hard example to follow. And if its all about usability, why isn't Mac king? Let me put it this way, this is my control panel: View attachment 34 The average person can spend 30 min clicking around to figure things out, no CLI needed, all the options for the system are exposed in an organized manner. Just like windows. It has a login screen and a Start Menu. Just. Like. Windows. There is no difference in ease of use for a Modern Linux Distro compared to MS's offering. In addition, everything you see above in the interface on the shelf on the right is configurable with normal drag and drop operations. It could not get any easier to use or customize. Also, you know what I have to do to get GFX drivers in linux? Go to Synaptic, then enter "nvidia" in the Synaptic search bar. I then select the version of the driver I want, and then I click the "Install" button. After its done, all I need to do at that point is log out and log back in, no reboot needed. Geez, that will stump joe Average. View attachment 35 If this is any more complicated than Add/Remove programs, I will eat my hat. Also, I do visit shops, here is one I just visited recently: http://store.steampowered.com/sale/steam_machines Oh, look! Linux, pre-installed, pre-configured, ready to go. (Well, this November, but this is not the first OEM to install Linux.) No expertise needed. Plug, Play and Go. Admittedly, we need better price points, but that is a marketing issue, not a software issue. Also, all the desktops at my last workplace? Linux! All the servers too. Except for one Windows server in the corner. Linux has incredibly wide adoption in the business world, and the consumer desktop is about to catch up.
The average person does not do what you predict, look outside at the real world for once. Maybe they could but they don't , why, because windows is EASIER. The average person spends 30 SECONDS to install windows, not 30 minutes to work it out and then install it, wow....Can you see mums and dads across the country wanting to deal with that verse's click click click click click installing....Seriously ? It is quite clear for me, that Linux for desktops is dead. . Have you ever tried Linux as corporate desktop OS? When you need always to collaborate, share documents, print them etc etc? Driver developers release drivers for OSes in priority of their usage, thus WIndows has always latest drivers while Linux fans have to suffer all the time. I am not saying Linux is bad, it is very good...but for servers..cheaper, more robust with a lot of server software...but Windows is better for desktops and that is fact. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree..... Oh and Mac isn't king because windows is, well, easier and well marketed by Bill Gates all them years ago. Funniest thing though is Linux is expected to grow to a mc huge 5% of the user market in the next year or so, interesting if you do the maths how long it will take Linux to catch Windows, your talking decades and decades. People are always satisfied with what they have, until they find something better to compare. What happened to me (discovering alternatives to windows), could happen to others. If they were willing to try, which I find rarely. There is one thing I have to put up for M$, though... The spread-sheet application Excel, is way more productive, powerful and easy to work with than the competition. When filters and pivot tables are needed, there's nothing better. I've tried! In businness I'm using Linux but I have a MS Office working with wine and a VM with windows to work better in some cases. For home users... They would be much better with Linux! No doubt! But it's a matter of being willing to embrace a change! So don't misunderstand me I do like Linux its just that windows dominates because its easier.
How did a chat about Linux and GPU and Video API Turn into a Windows Vs Linux Post? It's like a certain someone who split this post caused more harm then good Did not see that one coming a mile away
Either way it was getting off topic from the announcement of the game being migrated to Unity 5 and the benefits of it. That's the whole reason why Eleon appointed a Community Manager, who's job it is to keep threads on topic when they get off topic and things of that nature. Announcements are to share information about the game, and often times there are questions that forum users post that are directly related to the topic of the announcement/thread and the whole purpose of threads like that is to keep everyone informed of the development and answer any questions that can be at that time, there's other sections/threads for more in depth discussions that aren't directly related to the topic.
I have no problem with this thread being split off, and it has devovled into he-said, she-said at this point. I am certain that the biggest barrier to Linux Adoption is the initial install and getting to know the system. Note I do not expect Linux to dominate the industry (More than it already has server-side) now or a decade from now. What I do expect is that it will have an audience the size of a successful console generation. Indeed, if I had to call the shot, I would predict that Linux will be about as successful and prolific on the desktop as the Nintendo 3DS is in people's pockets. Not exactly dominating the industry, but not exactly obscure or failing either. The future of operating systems will be multi-faceted. Windows will not keep it's current 92% of the desktop market forever. That number used to be higher as well, so the industry shift has already begun. And note that most of the current Windows installations are not the latest version of Windows! The most popular version of Windows is still 7, so Microsoft is having as much trouble competing against it's own products as we are competing against it. Every objection Piddle has brought up against Linux is an objection that is equally valid against the latest versions of Windows compared to the older versions. Also, I would hardly consider having to migrate to a new, unfamiliar version of windows every 2.5 years "easier" on the end user. Also, I have already told you Windows is king because DOS was king, and DOS was king because it was there first, cheaper. Not because it was better technically. The success of Windows was built on that. Microsoft has been skating on this success since then. I have no problem with Windows itself, but I would not trust Microsoft unless I held 51% of it's shares. Their past behavior in the marketplace is justification enough for this. They built their success on a virtual monopoly, and that is really the only environment in which their business strategies function. They are not equipped to deal with a market with options. This is what they are dealing with today. Mobile is eating their lunch for the casual crowd, and what is the most popular Mobile operating system? Android. Which is what? Based on Linux. Today, Andriod/Linux is the OS of Joe and Jane casual. It will be a small leap to convince people who own Andriod to try Linux on the desktop.
I use Linux since of 2006. It is now much easier than ever before. Without Steam it might not have gone so fast.
many games runs better under Linux than Windows. I have one drive with (320G) Linux Mint 17.2 64bit and the other drive is (500G) Windows 10 64bit. ( I was Windows 10 Insider) The Witcher 2 runs better under Linux.
Hey gamers! DirectX 11 is coming to Linux thanks to CodeWeavers and Wine. Read this article --> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2940...-to-linux-thanks-to-codeweavers-and-wine.html
