Dear EGS Dev Team, I totally realize that this game is in development, and this is not a complaint letter. Rather, I offer this feedback hoping that it is useful to you. Actually, I am enjoying the game so much that I thought offering you some of my thoughts as a brand new player might be useful. If not, toss this in the bin, I’ll be none the wiser. I started playing last week, so I have completely fresh eyes. I love survival games, they are my favorite. Subnautica, Space Engineers and Minecraft have been my go to, and I love mods. I found your game while searching out a problem I was having with Space Engineers on the forums, and a guy was comparing it to you. I decided to give you a try, and bought in. (By the way, I have bought everything Space Engineers has offered, not because I wanted it, but just because I want to support its development. I’m the money paying kind for indie games.) Right in, I decided to start with the normal experience, and went for the default survival mode. That’s all I have played except a little creative to create a blueprint, which I will get to shortly. After a few hours, the first real thought I had to myself was, “This isn’t really a space game.” Not disappointed, just realized that I had no idea where I was going, and everything seemed to be oriented to my planet. Not a criticism, just an observation. 15-20 hours, no space. Hover ships were novel, but I just didn’t get it. Made one, but once I could make a flying ship, I was all in on that. Made a few blueprints, and despite the complaints on the forums, I liked it. It felt cheaty, but I didn’t want to spend hours building systems I didn’t understand, so popping in some resources in the factory and then exploring around with the thing was great. At this point, I realized I should level, so after some forum reading, I went off and slaughtered every Tal on the planet for a few hours. Ding- 25. Now, my base had been attacked by the Zpeople before, which was actually rather fun. Surprise, you have to do something now! Get loot too! It was, all told, good. I realized I needed a good base, and built one of the blueprints I could actually make that had guns. A little while later, I heard the sound of a spider hitting steel. No big deal, shoot spider. Which began one of my worst experiences ever in a game. They just kept coming, one at a time. I would circle and circle, and there would be more. A Tal spawned inside my foundation, and I tore it apart to kill it. My base is slowly getting wrecked by mosquitoes, and I’m searching the forums trying to figure out what the heck is happening, and how to stop it. Kill the shaman they say. There is no shaman. Look for him, they say, I fly everywhere. I learn about Godmode, Itemmenu, all sorts of stuff to keep myself from slowly losing everything I’ve put the last 20 hours into. No good. Nothing works. I was pretty much ragequit at this point. I had one last idea, and spawned in an HV with guns, hoping I could fly around and the AI would see what I couldn’t, and kill a shaman I couldn’t see. It worked. I never saw a thing, but it shot at something as I drifted by, and the torture finally stopped. It was a blessed moment. But my base is toast, and for all purposes, I’m starting over. I went to bed. 1st suggestion: fix that bug. It was game ruining. If it's not a bug, it should be squashed anyway. The next day, I decided I did like the game, and as it was probably a glitch, I made myself a deal. I would make a base in creative out of what I could already acquire, not go too overboard, and learn creative a little. So I built this: It was great. Had all the same stuff, and I built it to kill endless spiders, just in case. Then I spawned it in, leveled the ground, and was set to go. I love making pretty stuff, and was stoked to have something I made, and not from a prefab blueprint. Felt like 50’s retro space styling too, and I like that. Then, I realized I forgot to put something in the base, so placing a repair station, it had a block update, and suddenly the entire base crashed into the ground with me in it. Surprise! This game has something called Structural Integrity! So now my base looks like this: Which if I may say so, looks far, far crappier. Crappy as in ugly as my mirror. 2nd suggestion: Structural Integrity sucks. I like the idea, but in practice is is way too limiting, Half the fun is being creative and making things interesting. So what if it looks silly, or doesn’t look realistic. With structural integrity, everything looks like a fortress. I don’t want to live in a fortress. I’m a peaceful man, who likes to shoot things only occasionally. Which brings me to shooting things. At this point, I decide to build better stuff, I need some weird ores, and the forums say I need to travel to uglier worlds. Cool, I’ll do the intro to space questline, and maybe I’ll be able to warp somewhere filled with lava or creatures that look like the insects under my house. So I do Ancient Revelations, as it’s next on the list, and says I’ll get 5 beers. I want beers! So I fly off into a minefield, and I am suddenly ported away from my new ship to some derelict in space. Starts out fine, few bad guys, but suddenly, it’s a lot harder. I die. I figure, hey, I’ll go get my ship. 30 minutes later, after setting a sandbag on my forward key, and doing a quick read of War and Peace, I’m back. So I go on to finish this questline up, so I can warp away and dig some rocks with a laser. 3rd suggestion: Holy crap that is keyed way too hard. Death after death, I tried spawning in a super magic rifle, no help. The maze was fun, but so long and arduous that I godmoded to the end. Funny, after killing everything, I took off gm, and died due to all the status effects. All I could think was: “Seriously, they took away my only ship, and stranded me in the most horrific battle completely unprepared. I have no way to resupply other than fly my mostly dead body 30 minutes through space to get my skyboat, and there is no amount of supplies I could carry that would help. Not enough supplies hidden in cargo to help me along the way. More ghoulish death creatures than my favorite horror film, and worst of all, WORST OF ALL, my bags were full, and I did NOT get 5 beers. No beers- NONE. It said 5 beers, but I’m still sober, and I never want to do another questline. (As a side note, the storyboards along the way were awesome, and the finale was a great idea too. You might want to be a little bit more explicit at the end though, it’s a little of a denouement after such a long maze slog) And that’s where I’m at. I think I will probably mess around with it more, I really would like to warp somewhere and see what these other ores can do for me, but I’m not excited about it. The fighting progression just got too much, too fast, and I had no ship. I went from Minecraft in space to horror alien Call of Duty in 30 seconds. TL; DR Tal shaman base attack bug is evil, and game ruining. I was completely demoralized. It was like a child that won’t stop crying... for months… Structural Integrity sucks all the creativity out of the building. Unless you want to build Fort Knox every time you build something. Ancient Revelations is way too much, way too fast. Sure, if that was the end story and your resources were already op, it would be fine, but holy crap, that was so much grinding death frustration that I won’t do another questline. Lastly, though I didn't mention it, I just learned I have a drone. After 30 hours of play. Some notification on that would be cool. Haven't used it yet though. -Brotherdance
In regards (3) - the Alien-based POIs are pretty scary and dangerous, and usually I only do these with great trepidation! However, you don't need to do this to quest to travel to other planets / solar systems, you just need to build warp drives. Also for the future, if I remember correctly, you can use the teleporter in the Haunted Ship to return to where you started. Last time I did it, I got it's location, put a marker on it, returned to my ship and flew over there. I do agree that it is evil that it is in the starter system, so it makes you think you should do that early on! Re base attacks, in the new update I think they are changing up the Talon attack. I think the never-ending-attacks-playing-hide-and-seek-with-the-Shaman seems to be a common difficulty. Personally, I tend to make friends with the Talon and focus on destroying the Zirax (certainly when learning the game). Their POIs tend to have better loot - go for the Alien Containers (which often helps you get to your warpdrives quickly). There are a lot of features of this game that takes a while to learn...being early access the tutorial doesn't cover everything (or a lot of things). Use your drone to scout, recover your stuff when dead and mine! I don't really agree with you about SI - it adds some limitations but that seems reasonable to me (it only applies to ground based bases, not to ships or space bases), though the Devs have said they will rework it at some point. Have you discovered the debug menu (N), you can check structural integrity there.
This catches a lot of people. It's better now in A12 but if you don't know to kill the shaman it can be frustrating. You can also avoid it by not attacking or stealing from the Talon. You start neutral with them. It's not too bad. It has a range of about 12 blocks. You can also see it with the build menu (default hotkey N, sorry not sure if you know about it I skimmed some of your post). The Alien faction POIs are some of the hardest ones in the game and you can find them on the starting planet. For now that's not balanced but later on it will be. Tutorial is definitely a work in progress and being redone in A12. The next update is on the experimental branch (Alpha 12) and is changing a lot of things. In general, the early game is going to be easier in many ways (but harder in others). Hopefully it addresses some of your concerns.
To prevent early game base attacks, if I run into the kind of problems you're describing, I tend to set my base as 'public' until i got my defences up i would only do this in SP of course spiders and other fauna may spawn in your base if you build it in their spawn points... Don't know if this is fixed, I asume it's not if you're having the issue. Imo SI is a cool feature, it's not too bad at all, plus you can build whatever in space... As it was before i could get nearly all my resources in the starter planet, salvaging POIs and space junk was enough to get whatever i wanted, bases, cvs, svs, hvs... Getting to the other planets would only allow me to scale up in the builds and the challenge put by raiding harder pois...
In regards to the combat problems. Do you use your jet pack in combat? If you dont you really should, your basically asking to die if you dont. What weapons were you using? Id suggest T2s as a minimum, preferably the shotgun and pulse rifle, the rest are either meh or not so good the tight quarters. Spoiler for the derilict poi ahead ----> Spoiler The teleporter isnt one way you could have ported back to your ship. I like to mark the derilict as a waypoint and go back to my ship and fly there.
It *is* that bad - FFS the ancient Egyptians seemed to have better structural integrity with stone blocks than we have with combat steel. I wouldn't mind it so much if it was just awful with basic building materials and combat steel would pretty much negate the issue, or there were explicit beam blocks or something. Right now I cant even build a decent size hangar roof out of combat steel without the middle of it ending up bright red and high risk of collapsing when damaged by anything. At the very least, it needs to massively toned down beyond steel and basic concrete.
Imho ~it's ~ not that bad at all... Gravitational environments aren't merciful with materials, it doesn't really matter which material we're talking about they all tend to collapse. Nonetheless if this is an issue for some players it might be a good idea to be able to just turn it off or maybe set it to the desired value.
Further postings/discussions here seem to be useless as the OP did not bother to come back to the forum since his posting...last seen April 22nd...
I used to live 10 minutes walk from the pyramids in Giza (Egypt) - I know first hand they did a better job with their stuff than we can manage in this
We can do better now, half the building i work at would collapse in empyrion. Dedicated structural beams that add to si instead of detract from it would be nice, but then i also want pipes and wires blocks to perform the logistics side of things /shrug.
First of all, I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed reading this review, if that's what I can call it. Partly for the total defeat and hopelessness that can be felt when you lose everything, and partly because this game does seem to have a learning curve unlike any other. Not a bigger curve, but different somehow in my opinion. Also, I appreciate the neutrality and non-hostility of this post that seems to be lacking in the world lately. Quite a nice distraction from the rest of the things I've been reading on the internet this morning. I didn't read all the comments but, either way, I thought I would offer my own insight for what it's worth. From an avid gameplayer and lover of space games, exploration, to Minecraft-type games, etc. I both agree with you and feel like this game could offer you some unique challenges. Allow me to go through each of your suggestions and either offer solutions or insight, for better or worse, but in an equally non-contrarian way. And, as someone who loves this game, I also find myself equally frustrated with some of the set-backs...but it's getting better with every revision. Here we go: 1. I have over 1000 hours (by Steam's count) playing this game and I honestly have never seen these creatures before, didn't even know that's what the Talon used to attack, and have always wanted to know/see it. The game sets you up to befriend the Talon. Even though my friends and I have been playing the experimental releases to help find software bugs lately and one of my friends totally turned on the Talon and all but decimated their outpost, he was still only "unfriendly" instead of "hostile" with them and never had a base attack. I thought there was something wrong with Talon base attacks all this time but apparently not. Either way, killing Talon is not something I would do as an ill-equipped first-time-in-a-game player. I play it safe. Different strokes I guess. I understand your frustration but just wanted you to know that reading your experience was both entertaining and amusing. Especially the part where you spawn an HV and it magically kills the thing that's been...wait for it..."bugging" you. That does seem to be a typical setback of the game. Things spawning inappropriately, things stuck, POI's messed up. Just yesterday, I raided a Zirax base on a planet on the other side of the starting solar system. The base was mostly under ground but the grasses and plants on the surface still appeared inside the base. So, walk in the front door and you can't see enemy troops and turrets because you have a face full of grasses. However, as a former software developer, I have to imagine it's hard whenever a world is generated from a "seed" like a Minecraft map. There have to be so many unknowns or little details to be addressed. Any one of them causing unpredictable problems. I just try to be patient and help them find/fix stuff where I can. I used to love a space game called "Privateer" back in the 90's...yep, like Windows 95 or 98 stuff. You had a ship, you could do mission, or not, be a pirate, haul good, work with the militia. Whatever you wanted! And you could buy new ships, upgrade them, replace parts/weapons, etc. And then get a hyperdrive and start warping. There are more like this now although I struggled to find them in the previous decade or two. However, can you build a ship of your own design? No. Build a base of your own design where you can relax in the beautiful scenery and take a break from the fighting across the galaxy after you finally subdued the Zirax on what is now your beautiful planet because I, like yourself, am a peaceful man and enjoy the calm between the storm? No. I'm not sure those games usually even have a base or a home but you certainly can't make it look how you want. The Minecraft aspect to this game makes it totally worth sticking around to see what's next. Keep your hopes up! And, even if you design something cool and it gets destroyed, blueprints got ya covered! It's just a matter of time to make a new one and, this time, there won't be a pesky bug or Zirax to destroy it because you'll make sure of it...with your trusty HV! 2. I challenge you to make your base follow the laws of structural integrity AND look cool! If all else fails, you can make it a space base. Only somewhat kidding there. I totally agree your first base looks better than the second. However, just eyeballing your pictures, I bet you only need about half those pillars. And, instead of making boring straight columns as I would also be tempted to do, try to make them unique or blend in to the rest of your base. Some of the best examples are actually some of the POI's in the game itself if not what other people have done with their blueprints on the Steam workshop, for example. Hopefully by now you've learned there's a structurally integrity tool if you press 'N' and turn it on from the menu. And, understanding "Minecraft" physics, structural integrity only runs horizontal from from a supported vertical (unless you build in space and it doesn't matter). I forget how many blocks but you can test it with a test structure and see. Then apply that knowledge to your base. You may only need 1 pillar per room/module above. Maybe 2 for the wide ones. And keep in mind I think gravity does affect this too! On a heavier planet, it may be more difficult...so build a new design for that scenario! I have several base designs on hand and have a planet type in mind for each up them. Even recently built a modular lunar base, which I may publish to the steam workshop at some point. I enjoy the realism that some structural integrity provides especially when games like Minecraft allow you to do totally bogus things; it takes me out of the realism that draws me more into the fantasy, if that makes sense. Otherwise, turn your ramps into hangars and spawn that beauty in space! 3. Totally agree and I had the exact same experience. They've revised a lot of the mission stuff, and a lot on planet before you get to space, so I think it's a different experience now. But I know the game so well now it's hard to tell. Try Alpha 12! Just released! Save that mission for a mature stage of the game for sure...or go with a friend. A lot of the frustration can be alleviated when a friend can just come pick you up to recollect yourself. I have a semi-truck looking SV that we affectionately call the "Helio Hauler". It's made to HAUL ore. Like a lot of it. And the heavy stuff. It's now an SV semi-truck cab with detachable HV trailer since they added that functionality but I'm talking the max number of container extension modules an HV is allowed to have. Fill it up with heavy stuff and the Helio Hauler has enough additional lift thrust to get it off any planet if you engage the Helio Haul™ mode (aka. not economy fuel mode), even a lava planet with a gravity of '6' and full of Sathium, Erestrum, and Zascosium ore as well as a few autominers and other equipment. Don't worry, getting to my point now... So I crashed it on that lava planet. Not survivable without a suit but so much gravity I can't walk very well up the slightest of inclines with the suit. Usually I avoid these planets except the occasional how'd'ya'do but this was the only one in the solar system to conveniently get all 3 ores without having to visit several planets to get my fix...it really is an addiction because you NEED more of that ore because you NEED your next blueprint! Long story short, I was standing on the hood to collect my materials from the autominer and got sliced by a nearby arachnid or alien-something. I quickly dispatched the thing and hopped in the cockpit but the infections and parasites were abound! Stupidly (in retrospect), I began to lift off but immediately died from all the wounds. Now the Hauler is partially in the air on a planet where I can't jump much less walk. I couldn't walk anywhere. Creatures were everywhere and they ended up in a lot of the holes and crevices I ended up in as well. Soon to be joined by a nearby Zirax drone coming to check out the commotion... I must have spawned easily 20 times or more and only once or twice was it near enough to make a run for the Helio Hauler only to be dispatched by the drone. One time I got to the Hauler but the front end was too high to reach the cockpit. My only choice was to turn off the power switch so it would fall to the ground, which also turns off the hull shield. Then the drone and creatures got to me before I could get in it. Now, I'm spawning over and over, while in the distance watching the now shield-less Helio Hauler get torn apart by the drone that mercilessly wants to disable it. Good news! In alpha 12, they were adding some "safe" spawning options! I finally gave up on the Hauler and chose one of those but instead of the nearest base or Polaris station, I get spawned in the middle of nowhere! The heat and radiation of the planet finally tear me down. Clearly that's still being developed. I quit! For now. In single player, I'm not sure what I would've done. Eventually it did respawn me at a nearby Kriel base (also an A12 addition and thankfully at least a neutral or better reputation with them). But, even then, what can I do? How far can I go on this planet on which I can't even walk? How do I get home? So the moral is be careful! Some real-life danger is good for a game because I feel like unlimited respawns are a necessary evil; they are sometimes needed to keep playing but they're totally breaking the 4th wall in the game for the realism of the situation. In this case, I waited for my brother to get off work and join the server. He grabbed his trusty ship, loaded a spare cockpit (because at least that much got destroyed by the drone) and CPU, just in case, with the hopes of being able to fly the Helio Hauler home instead of having to salvage it. And it worked! Flew it home under its own power! Trailer still intact too because the drone didn't care about it, even though it's a separate enemy vessel, I guess! So a better ending than I could have hoped for when I thought all was lost. But this is far and few between in this game. We have fun raiding Zirax with some friends and generally exploring the solar system (now the galaxy in A12) and settling new planets. There's a lot to this game and I feel like alpha 12 addresses many of your concerns. Even the fact that it's "not really a space game" is changing. It's got a long way to go but the progress I've seen is promising. Okay, now where were we? 4. Ah yes, you have a drone. It's pretty handy.
