I. General For the first time, we are balancing the hand weapons in the game. The settings you experienced so far were a first attempt of how they could work but weren’t based on the limits of the game like view distance of objects etc. Some weapons (like the T2 or Epic Pistol) had a damage output which was far over the top and not in a meaningful relation to all other weapons yet. Our goal of this re-balance is to give each weapon a better identity and role. We want players to make a meaningful decision which tool to pick for the task they intend to do. Keep in mind that these updates do not attempt to simulate features of similar real-world weapons. One change is the reduction of weapon ranges. Some of the prior ranges made little sense: You had long-range weapons up with 600m range - but the graphic engine currently shows spawned creatures, like wildlife, only up to 120m. You had no benefit of using a long range weapon at all unless floating in space shooting drones. A place where you are always better off sitting in a spaceship anyway. We also intend to reduce the sitting duck problem: Some weapons allowed you take out drones before they were even able to react to you on a planet. This made taking out drones a shooting gallery without challenge. Now you must approach them with most weapons or have a proper long range weapon to get an advantage. Here are some ranges which we took into consideration: 2m - reach of some critters 30m- length a typical small POI 40-45m - height drones or the PV might hover above you 50-60m - Length of a typical large POI like the Abandoned Mine 30/80/120m - Maximum range of Zirax weapons 120m - Spawned creatures will no longer be visible beyond this range 300m - Range when regular drones will notice you and engage in an attack 300m to 800m - Maximum shooting range of POI turrets depending on planetary atmosphere density 360m - The distance drones are rendered as a 3D object instead of a dot on your screen when you are not using a rifle scope 500m - Drones and POIs will be marked in your HUD on planets 1000m - Visibility of drones and POIs on planets Ignore atmospheric density: A new feature we enabled for plasma and laser weapons is the possibility to ignore the atmospheric density (AD). As you might know, the effective range your weapon can deal damage is altered by the AD of the planet. The AD on Akua is 1.05 thus reducing your effective range to about 75% of the range it would have in space. An assault rifle with a range of 150m can only deal damage up to 115m on this planet. On Omicron and Masperon the density is even higher thus further reducing the weapon’s range. To make some weapons a better choice on certain planets, plasma and laser hand weapons are not affected by AD anymore. We are certain this will make the survival experience on starter planets like Omicron, especially in the Early game with limited weapon options, much more challenging and interesting. Bullet spread: We activated bullet spread to simulate different accuracies weapons can have. While a Minigun can also shoot up to 150m like an Assault Rifle, it is much more imprecise for instance, making it a less optimal choice to fight distant enemies. If your weapon has a scope you will increase your accuracy when using it. Weapon kits no longer needed: To make sure players can access and build most weapons they unlock in the tech tree right away, you no longer need weapon kits anymore, which drop randomly in POIs, to craft them. Role of epic weapons: We were also unhappy about the role of epic weapons in the current game. Once you got you preferred weapon as an epic version, there was basically no looking back to other weapon options and finding more epic weapons wasn’t very rewarding at all. Epic versions should act as temporary better versions of T2 weapons only - like a buff you can enjoy for a short time. You can enjoy increased reload times, higher ammunition capacity and of course higher damage with them. And with the weapon kits, you can still find, you can even build your own epic weapons now without having to wait to find an ultra rare container. However, to make this a proper “short-term” buff you are not able to repair epic weapons any longer. Also while we still call them “Epic” weapons they now called “Enhanced weapon (T2)”. This will also open the option for us to possibly introduce (repairable) T3 weapons at some point if it makes sense in the right context. Remember that you can still control how severe durability loss affects your scenario at the game start. If you want all your epic weapons to stay with you forever, set “Degradation Speed” to “off”. Up to you. Here’s a quick summary of all weapon changes. More details below: - Range of all weapons have been reduced or equalized. - Plasma and laser weapons now ignore atmospheric density. - Activated bullet spread except for laser weapons - Damage of all close-range weapons has been increased. - The damage for the shotgun has been altered so it’s devastating at very short range but much less effective at its max range - Damage for long-range weapons have been reduced. Their range is already their benefit. The headshot multiplier for the sniper rifle has been increased. - All weapon versions of the same kind (no matter if they are T1, T2 or epic) now have identical weapon ranges to ease up making a choice which weapon to use. - You can build your own epic weapons by upgrading a T2 weapon with a weapon kit; you have a choice now if you want to stick with your T2 weapon, which can be repaired, or upgrade it with another kit to an epic version, which is more powerful but won’t last forever. A Large or Advanced Constructor is required for crafting it. Additionally epic weapons can still be found in ultra rare containers as usual. - Epic weapons can no longer be repaired - Epic weapons and weapon kits can now be recycled in the Blue Print Factory II. The Handheld Weapons and their roles Chainsaw The increased damage can help you in dire situations when you get in contact with nasty critters. While the damage is far better than a regular standard pistol, you have to deal with a creature already attempting to eat you. Pistol Your pistol remains as your handy starter weapon. You have to be far closer to drones than you are used to take them out. With a weapon range of 90m, you are only able to take down the drones hovering above your base on Akua within 69m. A T2 pistol version deals similar damage to the T1 Assault Rifle but has to deal with the far shorter range of course. Laser Pistol The Laser Pistol is similar to the pistol but an upgrade to damage and accuracy. It is a solid choice when entering POIs or taking out drones behind cover. As it’s ignoring atmospheric density you can rely on its 90m range on every planet. The damage of a regular T1 Laser Pistol version is much better than and regular Pistol. And the T2 Laser Pistol (unlocking at level 25) is a valid alternative to rifles when it comes to dealing damage. Also being a Laser weapon it has no accuracy problems at all. Shotgun The task for this weapon is clear: If a creature is standing right in front of you, it should die when you pull the trigger once or twice with this weapon. It’s rather unreliable at its maximum range of 60m (or 46m on Akua). This will make it also extremely hard to take down far away drones if you can’t bridge the distance. Better take cover and wait until they are really really close before you fight them with a shotgun. Minigun This is the weapon deals a lot of damage already early on in the game. It has a similar range of about 150m on the moon (115m on Akua) but is extremely unreliable at this distance as it has a wide bullet spread. This weapon is devastating in small rooms and a menace to all aliens inside POIs. But don’t rely on it to take out drones outside unless they are rather close. Assault Rifle The Assault Rifle is best allrounder weapon early on for taking POIs and dealing with critters at a distance approaching you. It’s a solid choice for taking down patrolling drones.With its 150m range and high fire rate, you can rely on dealing with all creatures in POIs on Akua up to 115m no matter what POI base size you are in. Its bullet spread can be a bit rough when using a T1 version though. Make sure to use the scope when you can as this increases your accuracy. Like all rifles also has the second best headshot multiplier after the sniper rifles, making it a good choice for surprise attacks. Pulse Rifle The next best upgrade (starting at level 10) to the Assault rifle is the Pulse Rifle. Its damage and range are better than the Assault rifle and its accuracy is also increased. But it also suffers from atmospheric density range loss. While in space and on moons you can enjoy up to 170m range distance, on planets you only have about 103m to 131m. This is still very good and the best choice for storming POIs on high atmospheric density planets. Laser Rifle The Laser Rifle is a high damage output weapon, similar to the Minigun. But this weapon, unlocking at level 15, especially shines when it comes to its solid 150m range no matter what planet you are on - and this with perfect accuracy. 150m means: If you see a Zirax, you can kill him. 150m is great for taking out drones, too. This weapon is perfect for approaching a base with patrolling guards since their weapons can’t shoot at you without approaching. But you need Erestrum Gel to keep up with your ammo needs. Sniper Rifle The reduced amount of damage for the Sniper Rifle doesn’t make it a good option to clear rooms inside of a POI. However, this weapon has the highest bonus to dealing headshots (or similar vulnerable parts of an enemy). Its 400m range (308m on Akua) lets you take aim against all land creatures and drones you can see. Make sure to aim properly at their vulnerable spots so you can one-shot some enemies. If you miss and the creature storms into your direction you better switch to a weapon with more punch. Rocket Launcher The basic 1 rocket per reload version, unlocking on level 10, has a range of 200m only (which would be around 154m on Akua). This is still good to stir up a group of guards waiting outside of a base for you. While the basic weapon will stay a solid choice to use inside POIs to deal area damage and potentially affect targets behind corners, the T2 version will be equipped with homing missiles. The T2 version has, as an exception, a range of 360m. Other than higher damage it shines against moving targets like far away drones. After you take aim and fire (you don’t have to wait for a lock-on mechanism) the missile will home in on the target with slight corrections to its flight path as long as the target isn't moving too fast. The epic version deals the same damage as it fires the same missile. But it’s higher reload time allows you to deal more damage faster. Plasma Cannon This is like a beefed-up version of a Rocket Launcher unlocking at level 25. At 360m range ignoring any atmospheric density, it’s perfect to take out any turrets on an enemy base or patrolling drones. But keep reminding yourself that 360m is no safe distance… the base turrets will fire back! It has the slowest reload time of all weapons, therefore, it shouldn’t be the first choice to storm a base with. The damage is about equal to the regular T2 rocket launcher but the Plasma Cannon’s higher fire rate allows you to deal a lot more damage in a shorter time. This makes it more useful when you fight with hardly any cover. III. Terminology Updates We thought it’s weird that aliens of a different galaxy use the exact same bullet size standards in millimeter and inch like we do on Earth. So we updated the ammunition names into something a bit more generic. This update and avoiding abbreviations should also make it easier for new players to associate ammunition they find in the Early Game with the correct hand weapons. It removes the requirement to cross reference weapon and its bullet type and helps to find the correct ammunition and weapon at the same time quickly when using the search function. Ammo Renaming: “5.8mm Bullet” is now “Projectile Rifle Round” “.50Cal” is now “Pistol Round” “8.3mm Bullet” is now “Minigun Round” “12Ga Shell” is now “Shotgun Shell” “12.7mm Bullet” is now “Sniper Rifle Round” “120mm MSL” is now “Rocket Launcher Missile” “120mm H-MSL” is now “Rocket Launcher Homing Missile” “Pl.Charge Cannon” is now “Plasma Cannon Cell” “LsP Charge” is now “Laser Pistol Cell” “LsR Charge” is now “Laser Rifle Cell” Epic weapon name updates: “Epic Pistol” is now “Enhanced Projectile Pistol (T2)” “Epic Minigun” is now “Enhanced Minigun” “Epic Shotgun” is now “Enhanced Shotgun (T2)” “Epic Pulse Rifle” is now “Enhanced Pulse Rifle (T2)” “Epic Laser Rifle” is now “Enhanced Laser Rifle” “Epic Rocket Launcher” is now “Enhanced Rocket Launcher (T2)” “Epic Plasma Cannon” is now “Enhanced Plasma Cannon” “Epic Sniper” is now “Enhanced Sniper Rifle (T2)” “Epic Assault Rifle” is now “Enhanced Assault Rifle (T2)” IV. Known issues / work in progress: - All Ion, Plasma and Laser turrets for both the ship and base are still affected by atmospheric density. - All land creature weapon ranges are not affected by atmospheric density (not planned to be changed soon) - Ammunition names for base and ship turrets have not been updated yet. - In your regular HUD the ammunition name might show up very tiny in the lower right-hand corner; the ammo name will be removed from this spot soon since you can only have one kind of ammunition per weapon anyway at the moment the loot tables have not been updated yet to reflect the new balancing
IS this shipyard feature turned off in creative or have a option for this atm? i need to update my entire workshop and this will slow me down by hours!
yes, just like all other turrets. All in the control pannel. Go into devices, select the turret you want to change, and just check or uncheck what you want that turret to target.
What i care much more about is the CV/BA weapons range nerf. I hope, there will be pure CV/BA space weapons with much higher reach, soon. Because i seriously have no idea how a CV is supposed to use and weapons at all. I mean a range of 660 meters at max is simply not practical when a average CV is already 200 meters long. At such short ranges ships tend to collide, rather than trying to outmaneuver each other. Not to speak that it is almost impossible to create a Space bound Base that is supposed to defend itself if combat takes place so close you can't have a 360/360 fire coverage. It just needs one single SV parked at a blind spot that keeps fireing. I hope that this isn't what the devs have in mind tbh. What about increasing the visual range of CVs and BAs to several kilometers and have similar weapons ranges? At such ranges each players computer wouldn't need to render every little detail of each ship (like interiors or example). Maybe the suggestion from this thread would be handy: [Poll] Radical idea: Merging Building blocks and SI for ships (but not like you think) https://empyriononline.com/threads/...and-si-for-ships-but-not-like-you-think.9938/ Of course i have no idea how the devs imagine a CV -CV battle. Maybe they deliberately want 100 vs 100 CVs crashing into each other all the time IDK. Maybe it's a new kind of awkward type of spacefight some ppl. may find funny i have no idea. To me that doesn't make much sense, since in space there should be more than enough room for big ships to maneuver. In my understanding a 1 vs 1 fight should include maneuvering and trying to get in the best firing position, similar like a slow airplane dogfight. (think Starfleet command series or STO* for example) It would include much more thinking ahead instead of the need to be a fast reacting pilot. That should be left for ppl. who prefer SVs. (also RCS limitations according to tonnage would be helpful too, to prevent huge CVs being able to turn on a dime.) So i ask again, is there anything planned to give CVs and BA space combat some more range (maybe energy weapons?) or do we have to wait for several years for someone creating a mod covering this issue? Again, i'm currently mainly a spaceship builder in Empyrion. But (or better said: especially because of that) it would be nice to know if there is anyting being planned of if CV/BA space combat really is supposed to be basically a melee fight. EDIT: * well forget STO, it's just button smashing and has little to do with maneuvering and tactical foresight.
I ment the handheld rocket launcher, not the turret. It also would be cool if you could use the sight and see a lock symbol on the part its locked to.
Why isn't head-shot multiplier being shown anymore? Please bring it back. Could we get some indication that a head-shot was successful?
One shot rocket launcher is a bad joke. Seriously. Have you guys actually PLAYED this game or do you just come up with mechanics changes based on theory? Most of the other changes also sound silly to me. The NPCs are already bullet sponges and close range head shots are more or less required to take them out even on "Easy" difficulty. Shorter ranges all around. Oh great. That makes your typical POI even more impregnable on foot. Guess the imperative to dash close then dig a hole is greater than ever. Meanwhile . . . virtually all the NPC algorithms are near-sighted, blindered, and predictable. Want to kill lots of Zirax? Sap under their base, breach in via one block, build your base under and into their base and use concrete blocks to create a cul de sac / kill zone around one or two spanwers. Put a medic station on one side of a thin concrete that is near and orthogonal to the NPC approach path. They will walk right up to the thin slab on the opposite side of the medic bay where the player is waiting and stand there. Now just pop around the corner and blow their heads off with your T1 shotgun. You don't even really need to duck back; just stand there as they are unable to recognize that they can shoot at you at too short of range. I just leveled up from like 7 to 23 by burrowing into an Armory, building a base on the edge of its spawn restriction area, then extending my base under their base. One sentry gun to penetrate a floor block and I'm in. Now I own the place and I can farm one or two of the Zirax spawners for as many XP, med kits, canned veg, and rifle ammo as I can stomach. You know what would improve small arms combat? Better NPC algorithms. More variety of NPC algorithms. Supressing fire. Hand grenades. Land mines. Random encounters. Response parties. NPCs with a few algorithms up their sleeves which actually seem like they were intended to respond to a cunning player and not simply mob. Non-repairable epic weapons . . . ham-fisted. I can understand the desire to make additional epic drops appealing . . . Oh I know! How about a working two way NPC trade shop! You know, so the player could SELL those excess epics that he/she didn't really like? Something you guys apparently do not comprehend: not all players deal with combat in the same way. People decide on their ideal weapons not simply based on DPS or range or spread. How the player actually copes with combat and how they strategize about making their way through the game world are also important.
I agree with a couple others that BA/CV turrets should have a larger range, as they can only fire 2-3 times the length of a larger BA/CV in many cases. I make CVs to shoot at a target, not ram them after all. I realize that rendering issues is one factor in the shorter range choices, but for automated turrets, they may not need to fully render to engage. Real world fighter jets for example can fire missiles several miles away, long before their targets are actually visible to the human eye for example. For the case of a SV or HV, perhaps only certain weapons, such as a homing rocket would have this capability, since a POI with BA range would cause possible issues, whereas the lighter weapons such as a gatling gun or cannon turrets would still be useful for smaller targets such as predictors or drones. The previous paragraph leads me to another thought, if that is the case for use, could an option be set in the turret targeting menu so clarify what type of enemy it engages? We don't need a rocket turret to shoot at a Zirax 50 meters away for example, a minigun turret is quite adequate for that use.
It was a good idea to rename epics to enhanced and it was a great idea to have them built with weapon kits. Also that they last only so long is a good idea, unrepairable, gives motivation to hunt for more and explore the lovely galaxies our top server hosts are providing atm. The new ranges and and the bullet spread makes for a more realistic shootemup play. Being able to create t2 without kits is also a good call. I have been enjoying this so far.
Why not have a target lock game mechanic (Maybe CV/BA only) via a "free mouse UI" (Similar like the "N" menu)? So you can choose which target your automated turrets are supposed to attack, instead of having to individually choose which enemy group they should attack (which is a fiddly/Impossible work while in combat). It could work similar to the "N" menu, except that you can continue to steer your ship (with keys) but have a free mouse pointer to click on enemy ships (to choose/lock target) or to do some other tasks, like activating other things like cusom signals (which could be shown in the free mouse UI) and so on.
This is a great idea, similar to the N menu hold a key and quickly see a list of nearby hostile targets and quickly click a target release the key and the weapons all attack that target.
Perhaps... I think it's still more efficient to have my artillery and rockets shooting at the BA turrets while my minigun shoot at the guys running out the front door or arriving from transports as my cannon turrets knock out the drones automatically without trying to select several different targets with several different turrets as I'm trying to avoid incoming turret fire mid fight though is a more precise example. Your suggestion might be feesable in MP if you have others controlling the turrets, but SP, forget it. My primary point is to have different types of turrets selecting different types of targets, since the weapon balancing is focusing on the need for the proper weapon for the proper task.
I was espeically thinking about SP (i never do MP anyways). Target selection could be done via custom made weapons groups, like having some weapons stay automated, while ordering others to fire at a selected target. A decent CV/BA combat UI should be good enough to allow things like that. I was taking things like this for granted. For example, you could have 3 or 4 weapon groups (pre defined by the player) and have each one represented in the CV/BA combat UI. You could set each one to autmoated (like you do now) / or target lock mode and via drop down menu you could change the target priorities without going to the control panel. I never liked this full automated fireing like we have right now. There's little to almost no control about which target your turrets attack while in combat.
Controlling multiple groups individually would still be nearly impossible while avoiding incoming fire IMHO, we'll have to see how you feel 30-40 years from now once your vision and reflexes have degraded as much as mine have, automation will likely become much more attractive to you at that point I'm willing to bet, lol. I've actually been wishing for a tab-target style instead of the free moving cross-hairs we have now, but I find that quite doubtful to be honest. I can see automatic fire as a toggle though to appeal more to either preference in a SP, and perhaps MP on the admin's preference so long as everyone on the server would be at the same capability.
What are you talking about?!? Do you even know what a Target lock mechanism is? You select a target once and your automated turrets keep fireing at it. You don't have to do anything after that (just like now). Also, it does not mean you have to control the turrets yourself (or some other player), you just tell them to keep fireing at the selected target. You do not need good reflexes or vision at all for that. (target selection could be done via Key input.) It is exactly the opposite from fast reaction piloting.
No need to act nasty. I forgot this is a weekend. I know exactly what target locking is. Once the target is gone, you would have to lock on the next target in this case, the result is you'd have to re-lock on every single target on the playfield. Meanwhile you are still trying to avoid incoming fire to keep your weapons in range. Consequentially vision and reflexes are very much needed for targeting multiple groups of weapons, while continuing to move simultaneously. Thus your suggestion is precisely fast action piloting/weapon control. This is exactly why I said perhaps as an toggleable option for those who prefer fast action, not a forced change for all as some may prefer to play a more automated fashion.
Nasty? i'm sorry if i sounded rude. But you wouldn't need to do that with all weapon groups, only those you wish to attack a specific target. (For example, have your plasma Turrets or Artillery attack the heavy defended base, instead of hunting some small SV that is zipping around). All other weapons would exatly work as they do now. I don't understand what would be so dificult with that. You could just hit the "select next target" -key to get the target you want OR have the turret group attack whatever they want. Of course you would only do that with bigger heavier targets, like enemy CVs. You wouldn't do that with Small targets like individuals, i think that's a given. Regarding avoiding incoming fire in a CV. I hope when (IF) they introduce Shields, CV/BA combat will become much slower and more tactical. I hope the idea of CVs being able to turn on a dime and be almost as nimble like a small SV is only a temporary game concept. I seriously hope the devs will intorduce game elements that will make big CVs much slower but much more durable (so they don't need to zip around, like some players want them to do).
Fair enough, apology accepted. I was still editing my earlier reply (another down side of poor vision, lol) as you quoted it, thus the variance as I often read and edit after posting. The tab-targeting I was referring to seems similar to the '-key' part you mentioned here, I think we're on the same page in that regard. The shielding you refer to though would (will? I think it's on "the list") will be great and make it more tactical for sure. Heck, I'll even toss out the idea to replace (or in addition to) the hover-booster block with a shield-booster block in this case. I'm thinking a turret type priority would be nice in any case, as we do have minimal control currently I agree. We can turn things on and off entirely as it is, but cannot change the order in which they are selected, that would improve things quite a bit. Artillery target turrets first above all else, miniguns mob's first above all else for example, then to step to the next thing on the list, etc.. With this method one would not even need to "-key" or "tab-target" if automation was active and set up appropriately. Gatling guns could be the focus of active targeting in this case while the turrets took care of all the automation in the mean time.
