I just had a thought, which involves a question that leads into an idea that could form the basis for a potential suggestion. The Question: Does Aerodynamic Lift affect HVs? (Probably not, but...) The Idea: If not, why not? I could TOTALLY see allowing Aerodynamic Lift to affect HVs so that if built correctly, they could POTENTIALLY fly in atmosphere. Still with a lower max speed and such than a SV, but we could make hover planes and such. The Suggestion: Let Aerodynamic Lift affect HVs, but make it only let one lift to a certain height, say up to 200M below "Space" so that HVs won't make it to space without SV or CV help. (Also, even if they did, they still have a VERY SLOW space speed.) Also, keep the "Wings" blocks as SV only, so that you have to actually build a HV's wings to be affected by lift. Due to their slower speed and such, it would be more difficult to do than a SV, but possible.
It has 3 modes now instead of the 2 it had before. Make sure you are on the correct mode and it should be working. It is extremely difficult for me to distinguish between 2 of the modes though.
I do have the correct mode selected. That's what I'm saying. It acts like auto-brake is on even when it's off.
I just ran into this issue myself as well. I was testing vessels in orbit and I have some CV's that are behaving as you describe and it is always acting as if it's on. The icon is changing but it always behaves the same with the CV. The SV's I tested at the exact same time didn't have this issue. Oh, and it seems there is only 3 modes if on a planet. There are only 2 modes in space. Was your issue with CV's, SV's, or both?
I really like this idea, as long as weight plays a big factor. Basically flying HVs would have to have super light armor and low weight to get off the ground.
I've encountered this on a few ships at random times. Even using multiple of the same ship i've had it occur on one but not on the other. I pinned it down to Drag being applied in space, rather than autobrake being activated. Since a ship slows down slower than it does with the actual autobrake. There's also some weird thruster behaviour when a ship gets like this, such as thrusters that aren't being used activating on their own (e.g. go forwards and the downward thrusters will start up after a second or two; go in reverse and the upward thrusters start up). This derpy state seems to activate after leaving a planet.
I think you nailed it Vermillion, it's atmospheric drag, not auto-brake. So atmo drag needs to be removed from orbits, there's our bug.
Agreed. Full Combat Armor should make it too heavy. It should also have to stay in motion to remain aloft. (Unlike a SV that, with the right thrust, can hover at any height.)
All of the vessels I tested in space were spawned in in space right then and there at the time of the testing. None of them crossed playfield boundaries. Seems there's more at play here than just that. I didn't test all my vessels, but all the SV's I tested behaved as they should in space with autobrake turned off. The CV's were the ones that weren't working correctly with autobrake off. So it's not as simple as drag in space, unless that can be activated for one vessel and not another. I thought it was a playfield setting though and not something that can be set per vesel type? Something is fishy.
For what its worth I just built a test CV in orbit by hand and it managed to get the 0.2 m/s bug. Had to turn off the ship for it to stop so I could exit the cockpit.
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, and I usually leave the feedback to more capable souls, but I wanted to express my thoughts on this very important video from jrandall. The issue he brings up is that, disregarding CPU (since it can be turned off), many builds on the workshop still won't work due to the new flight mechanics. The placement of thrusters to compensate for no RCS means that he and other builders have to build in a certain format, with the thrusters spread out, which limits them to a very rough ship outline. Previously, if you had an idea for a ship design, you could build it however you wanted, and it would work. With the new flight mechanics, Jrandall is afraid this is no longer the case. I believe he's overlooked some key points, which are below: First, I think there is a conflict of interest here: what are you building for? Are you building purely for the satisfaction of building, or are you building so that other people can have blueprints? They aren't always the same. Second, and most importantly, it's important to note that, even though the new flight mechanics are NOT optional, you can STILL IGNORE THEM. Build the ship however you want, throw an RCS or two in them, and they behave just fine, provided you have CPU off. Knowing this, I would say our creativity is not limited. What IS limited (as I think it should be), is what we can do in a survival game (with all limitations on obviously). The devs clearly want to move building into more physics-based flight mechanics, and I think that makes all the sense in the world in a survival game. If you're playing survival, you are trying to survive. If you wanted it easy where you can build whatever you want with no physics... then play creative. There's no reason you can't. There now IS a reason you can't do both in the same game, which I think is the right direction to take. Two final points: Jrandall expressed his dislike of having to make multiple versions of ships, one which complies with the various limitations and one which does not. Again, conflict of interest. Don't try to have the best of both worlds in one game. That is exactly what the devs are trying to remove. Work with the change here, and everything is fine. Build a ship which is everything you want, throw RCS in it, and ignore the physics. Build a ship which people will actually use in survival, built to specifications. Two different ships. There's no need to limit your designs, unless you're building TO THE LIMITS. Final point: I am of the opinion that these new flight mechanics actually allow MORE creativity. Previously, you needed thrust in all six directions. I always found that limiting, because if you're trying to copy the look of a sci-fi ship, most of them just have thrust going out the back. Like Star Destroyers for instance. We could never do that. But now we can. Put thrust in the back, throw an RCS in the ship, and it will actually fly. It takes a bit to get used to, and the only way to land is with gravity (meaning no docking in space), but that's something we could never do before. And I personally love it, because it means for a survival game, a simple scout SV is actually cheaper to make than a scout HV (one/two thrusters vs thrusters in four directions plus HVEs). Which is great, because scout SVs are way faster and easier to control than scout HVs.
1. SV rolling speed when flying on planets felt far too slow. When you initially start pressing the key it starts fast but then hits some kind of wall speed, a drag or i don't know. IRL fighters can roll much faster, and they do it by flipping the tips of the wings, opposite sides to opposite direction. As in this example: https://i.stack.imgur.com/T1sWA.jpg ... the control surfaces when rotated will cause the figher to roll, and it really can do a full 360 roll in just a few seconds i believe. Empyrion roll 360 propably takes half a minute or more as it is with lots of RCS, and that's just a bug. 2. The Ctrl-W cruise speed is too slow to control as it is to be useful. I'm not sure if it still needs a bigger redesign, but i thought of 2 ways to make it at least better: - Make speed target move faster. - When the Ctrl-W key combination is first pressed down, the speed target would be set equal to ship's current speed (still within the speed limits). This would remove the annoying thing where you first manually accelerate speed to max, then hit Ctrl-W just to see speed drop to 0 first. That behavior is very out of place.
That's what I'm starting to realize as well. Well the positives are if can do with out landing some of your larger CVs on the planet then you should be able to build a really nice CV. I got my larger CV under T4 with the current CPU numbers hopefully they will lower the Large and XL thrusters some more. Plus with the new flight model one RCS is good enough for any of my CVs in spae. Also the T1 Shield is pretty cheap compared to other things.
I will say this about the new flight model and Virtual drag. The fact that this is possible in game now is pretty awesome. A glider that I'm pretty sure will still fly with one or two guns on it.
You don't even need to go that light. I've made both a T1 scout ship and a T2 light fighter (no shield) using the wing/back thrust/RCS format. They both have the enclosed cockpit, multiple fuel and generators, and 2 gats. The fighter also has 2 missiles, and full hardened steel (had to use 2 jets to keep it airborne; the scout only uses two small thrusters and works great). The scout is WELL under the limit.
Yep, the uhh... "spaceplanes" are a viable way of packing a lot of firepower and decent maneuverability onto a Tier 1. You can easily fit a pair of gatlings on or go extreme with 5-6 gatlings or 4 rocket launchers. They handle completely differently to regular ships so require different methods of combat which I guess doesn't appeal to most players that are stuck with one playstyle and unwilling to compromise. Here's mine: Ultimately, this one is a bit of a failure, but it can take down most of the lighter-armed POIs on/near the starter planet through divebombing the base from above then getting away the same way.
I think the devs should consider allowing us to either add hover engines to SVs or add wheels to the game so our new plane style SV can take off and land like a normal plane.
The lift mechanics also work with CVs, so it's possible to make huge CVs that only have rear-facing big thrusters. They'll get progressively harder to turn as they get bigger, like an irl cargo plane, but they're still workable, can be ridiculously fast in a straight line and move huge amounts of cargo without relying on VTOL. I'm pretty sure the hover mechanics are baked into the HV ship type and as far as I know, the devs hate wheels (i've had prefabs and POIs rejected for having "wheels", so had to de-wheel them). I've been wanting a retractable wheeled landing gear for a long time for the same reason. The wheels don't need to actually work, since any block drags along the ground the same. As long as it looks like it works, i'll be happy.
