more thrusters --> less speed :(

So I added more thrusters to my CV to increase its maximum speed, and the maximum speed didn't change. It still won't go faster than 100. Upgrading from 2 to 4 "Thruster Regular L" should make a difference, shouldn't it?

Since it didn't, I slapped another "Thruster Regular XL" on just to see if would make a difference. It does in that the maximum speed is now only 86.5.

Can someone explain that to me? I thought the more thrust you have to overcome the mass, the faster you can go, up to the speed cap, which seems to be at 130.

I guess I'll remove these thrusters. Their only effect being needing even more fuel, they're not something I'd need.


BTW, what about fuel efficiency? It is more efficient to use more smaller thrusters than less bigger thrusters, or the other way round? Usually, bigger is more efficient ...

 

Maximum speed of a CV is 100m/s.
Thrusters cost CPU and adding an XL thruster eats a massive amount of CPU. If you exceed the CPU limits of your ship, you will lose thrust from all your thrusters, resulting in slower speeds.

 

My SV goes 130 and the CV should of course be a lot faster than that.

CPU usage is currently close to 1.6 million of max 10, so adding an XL thruster shouldn't slow it down even further.

When the only option to escape a fight we can't win because the enemy inevitably has the same amount of turrets, same amount of shield and can go the same speed is by running to the hangar fast enough to escape in an SV, then this is all pointless. They will always win because they're many while I'm only one.

 

Patrol vessels are easy to escape. Most (all?) don't go anywhere near 100m/s, and they don't really chase you either.

 

CVs can only go 100m/s because they have ALL the firepower.....

If a CV could go as fast as a SV then the SV is doomed because THEY can't escape the likely overwhelming firepower the CV is likely to have.
CVs have to be slower or it is basically a massacre.

 

Yeah well, what do you expect when you attack a destroyer in a fishing boat? Nobody is making their destroyers slower in order to let the fishing boats escape.

 

Except for the fact that you don't have to be the attacker and you still get screwed if you were in the SV.

They can't be the same speed.
We've already tried that and it played out exactly as I already explained.

It's about balance. If they are the same speed then the balance goes compete out the window.

There is very good reasons why it is the way it is.
We've already tried your way and it completely did not work.

 

I'm screwed far worse when I'm in my CV rather in my SV when it's too slow to get away because it is way more expensive to repair or to build a new CV than it is to repair or rebuild a SV, and the CV is much more likely to have lots of resources in its cargo containers than the SV is. That I might get killed either way is irrelevant because I can always respawn somewhere without loosing anything except for the CV or SV, or the CV plus whatever it has in its hangar and in it's cargo containers.

This is not about balance but about having the option to build my ship in such a way that it has better chances of survival when it gets involved in combat. I don't have the option to build a better ship because the amount of weapons it can have is limited, so at least I might build a faster one with which I may be able to escape. Of course, an enemy may be faster still, or as fast, but what from what I've seen so far, the ships that attacked me or which I attacked were slower, and I want to keep it that way.

With the current limits, you can not balance anything. When you don't have the option to use better equipment/technology (like better/more weapons) than your enemies, you can only win if you have more resources and more manpower available to you so you can overwhelm them by having greater numbers. In this game, you don't have either, so you can only loose. That is anything but balanced, it is totally unbalanced.

I already have 3 factions as enemies now, so that's a huge disadvantage, and I didn't want any of them to be enemies. One of them I only have due to a misdesigned story mission. All of these factions may have thousands of ships and troups and drones and whatever they can fight me with all at the same time while I have only one ship I could bring to a fight and no troups at all. It can't be any more unbalanced.

Well, it's nonsense. Look around and you'll find that ships (and airplanes) designed for combat tend to be pretty fast. Both destroyers (SVs) and fleet carriers (CVs) go over 30 knots. Considering that the amount of energy (fuel) required when going through water faster can increase by the power of three, a little more than 30 knots is probably at the limit of what is feasible for the type of hull they use. Otherwise they would go faster, and it would be nonsense to artificially limit their speeds. Nobody does that. The airplanes all go pretty much the same speed and differences in speed are only due to their role and other advantages or disadvantages that make up for a lower speed. The same goes for tanks, and so on. They all got faster over time, not slower.

Of course you can not expect to survive in a SV when getting into a fight with a CV. Why would you even think that you could? Manipulating their maximum speeds is certainly not the way to change that. Besides, it's totally unrealistic to have speed caps like that in space.

If you want to try to balance this aspect, start thinking about the efficiency of thrusters and generators, and you'll find that a CV may not be faster than a SV but outrun it because its fuel may last longer so it can continue to accelerate while the SV can not ... The result will be the same, the CV wins.

In that case, you also need to rethink if it should be possible that we can carry hundreds of fusion cells in our inventories or not --- and I keep wondering where the NPC factions get so much fuel that they can power huge bases and space stations even without reasonably wiring the teleporters. I haven't seen any fuel transports supplying them yet. If their mining drones are that efficient, I want those, too. Or how do you intend to balance things, and how is that currently balanced? Same goes for other resources, like to build ships, bases, space stations, weapons and ammunition from ...

 

You're overthinking it. By a huuuge amount.

The facts of the game have been made plain. Whether you accept the realities of the game is up to you, but claiming they are nonsense doesn't really help you in any way.

Lots of aspects of the game are the way they are due to technical limitations (like speed limits and such). You will have to use a bit of imagination or simply overlook some things that you find illogical (like "never" seeing fuel transports and such doesn't mean they don't exist. I never see my neighbors taking groceries into their homes, but obviously they do. I'm just not actively watching while it happens.).

The other option, of course, is to make a mod of you own (like Reforged Eden) and change the rules and stuff to be how you want them to be. But that whole realm gets a lot more complicated.

As for combat, keep in mind that the AI is kinda dumb. Assuming you can reach 100m/s, then you can very easily change course away from the AI and accelerate to full speed, and they will literally never catch you. Once you get far enough, they even forget that you existed.

You just need to be smarter than the AI. And in this game, that's not much of a task.

 

Well, they don't even accept any feedback and either ignore or delete posts or both giving some, so there is obviously no interest whatsoever in improvements. This will remain just another unfinished and broken game not worthwhile playing.

 

I've not seen any feedback get deleted (but I guess if it was deleted, I wouldn't see it anyway, so kinda a moot point) but I have seen a fair bit of feedback get interacted with.

Unfortunately this forum is not highly populated, so a lot of people won't even see it to start with.

You can always try the Steam Discussion page for this game, or even the Empyrion Discord group. Both tend to get more traffic than these forums do, perhaps you would do well to post there as well?

Personally I find it quite worthwhile to play, bugs and all. But we all get to choose how we spend our free time, and there are a lot of space games out there on the market

 

Actually they do accept feedback

 

It's just that you're a little late to the party. Not saying you shouldn't provide feedback. But you're trying to start discussuins again about features that have been changed and discussed back and forth already multiple times years ago. So it's not very likely that those things will get changed a lot again.

I'm almost 7 years here now and most of what we have now, has either undergone lots of iterations and changes already unitl we came to a working middle ground.
There were and still are a lot of strong opinions about some of the game's features between the player base and what they expect from the game:
MP vs SP
Old vs. young
Sim fans vs. arcade fans
So you see it's not easy to find the right balance to please everyone.

Secondly some things are simply not doable with the game engine in it's current form and would need massive parts of the game code to be rewritten, which is not very likely at this point of development.

But as said before, keep it coming. Maybe there is something no one has thought about before.

I think Empyion is a great game already, even if not everything is perfect. But seeing where it came from I find it very much fun and enjoyable.

/jmc

 

That's been my experience as well. I've logged dozens of bugs, and many/most have been addressed.

Breaking bugs down into individual issues lets them merge similar items and prioritize/group discrete bits of work. The end of the day prioritization of what's next is their thing. Stuff changes every release and the way you solved in-game problems today may not work after the next drop. Things do change.

Try turning CPU and weight/balance off and you'll "fix" your OP problem; those features were added to increase the challenge, grind, and need to build mission specific vehicles. You can console im or sbp away painful outcomes or use save games to let you jump back in time to try the same thing a few times ... figuring out what actually works by suffering through the challenges can be pretty fun if you give it a chance.