There is a very large discrepancy between the actual rates of fire for turrets, and the ingame listed rounds per minute (RPM). This means if you are trying to figure out the damage per second (DPS) or ammo requirements of a turret over time, you will not have an accurate number using the ingame tooltip. I have done tests in Creative mode that outline the real rates of fire for all base (BA) turrets. Minigun turret: 120 RPM vs 600 listed Cannon turret: 60 RPM vs. 300 listed Flak turret: 60 RPM vs. 150 listed Laser turret: 60 RPM vs. 150 listed Plasma: 7.5 RPM vs 8 listed Artillery 4.6 RPM vs 5 listed Plasma and artillery are pretty much accurate if you want a rounded number (Plasma fires once every 8 seconds, artillery fires once every 13 seconds). Rocket turrets are accurate. The worst offenders are the other four: Minigun, Cannon, Flak and Laser turrets. Flak and Laser only fire at 40% of their listed RPM. Cannon and Minigun fire at 20%. This results in a significant reduction in DPS. Another big issue I found: The actual damage values are different from the listed damage values. Minigun: 26 dmg vs 8 listed Cannon: 53 dmg vs 16 listed Flak: 53 dmg vs 40 listed (splash damage not included) Rocket: 680 dmg vs 502 listed (splash damage not included) Pulse Laser: 70 dmg vs 40 listed Plasma: 1725 dmg vs 1278 listed (splash damage not included) Artillery: 2563 dmg vs 2212 listed (inferred through splash damage, first block is destroyed but surrounding splash is 2.5x less than the ground zero block) Methodology: With the damage test: I tested a single shot from each of the turrets against a variety of blocks: BA combat steel, BA reinforced concrete, BA steel, BA concrete, and SV hardened steel. The results were always the same—the damage did not change. You can now compile a table of realistic DPS per tower with the information above. With the RPM test: I created a turret platform in creative mode and tested each turret, one at a time. They first fired at a wall, and then an attack drone, to rule out if the DPS changed depending on enemy type (they did not). I then timed exactly each shot as it fired, and also the number of bullets spent over time. No changes to config files were made. Anyone can replicate these tests and confirm the results.
I then timed exactly each shot as it fired How was this timed? I have noticed that the visual and audial cant always keep up with the turrets and the turrets sometimes fire without any visual or audial queue . The only result was seeing a drones being shot out the sky.
Up to now I was under the (possible imaginary) assumption auto firing turrets have LESS RPM as if manually fired. This could be only some visual or audial problem as @SilvRav said, of course. But now @iAdmiral saying even in manual firing it's not up to the ingame description... that's.... interesting
this dosent surprise me once oh ever sadly the CV space only guns sadly fire to slow for my liking, but made up with good range.....intill that nerf at 7.0 T_T
You might find this interesting—I timed the shots in 3 different ways. First was from being next to the turret, and the audio-visual signal of the turret firing was timed. Then I was at the block that was being hit, and I timed each instance when the hitbox took damage. The third was I checked how much ammo a turret had, and then checked again after a set amount of time, and calculated the difference. The result was always the same, the actual rates of fire, and thus ammo consumption, are vastly lower for several turrets. I have only tested automatic turret firing, since manual fire cannot be perfectly replicated. However, I did do a quick test just to see an estimate of what manual fire does, and you can achieve slightly higher rates of fire through manual firing. None of them hit their listed RPM values, though. Minigun was the only turret you could hold and shoot, which gives you about 180 RPM (vs. 120 auto fire, 600 rpm listed).
I reported similar findings a few weeks ago in a bug report thread. It was never acknowledged. Hopefully this is looked into because the listed values aren't correct at all.
I'm curious as to whether or not the tests were performed with Vsync locked at 60, or unlocked? There's the possibility of it affecting the results, if the back-end engine is allowed to process at a different rate as visual/auditory updates are registered.
When I did my comprehensive suite of tests, I had Vsync unlocked. Either way, to account for any visual/auditory discrepancies, I did other tests like timing when the block hitbox took damage, as well as timing how much ammo the turret used over a controlled amount of time. I do not know if the Devs intended this and never updated the information ingame, or if this is something that should be fixed. Both damage values and RPM are completely off.
I don't doubt it - could just be tooltips needing updating. Could be discrepancies due to engine overhead, processing delay in the engine, or other weirdness. Just thought asking about vsync might help eliminate another potential difference. Unlocking it can cause really abnormal behavior in other games with physics, etc.
The discrepancy between minigun stat damage and actual damage makes sense. They bumped up the damage and reduced the ROF for both, but I don't recall seeing the stats change, so maybe they just forgot to update the tooltip? Anyways, wouldn't these numbers all be in a file somewhere to check?
I have, all of that is in the methodology section if you're interested. The results are still the same. You can also replicate my results, too (it's very easy to setup and see for yourself). Base turrets do the same damage, regardless of whether it's concrete, reinforced concrete, or combat steel. Even minigun and cannon turrets—they will do the same damage regardless of the material (exception is wood blocks, which takes a huge damage multiplier). Handheld weapons have different multipliers. There is a discrepancy between every actual damage and RPM output and every listed stat. Not just minigun. And thus the overall DPS for all turrets is also lower than what you'd assume with the listed values (by over 30%, for minigun and cannon turrets as an example).
The damages are fairly similar. Just the minigun and cannon are so massively out of scope. I'm just saying that the reduced ROF and increased damage vs the listed stats is consistent with announced changes.
It was part of 7.6 "- Significantly increased DAMAGE for Minigun and CANNON but reduced Rate-o-Fire in the same scale (so the DPS are similar to the before state)"
Awesome work @OP! The current turret tooltips do not match the 7.6 patch statements. Glad to see the values listed here.
My tests were done in 7.5 with the base cannon turret because it's RoF was supposed to match it's ammo capacity exactly. Cannon turrets fired at 39% of their advertised speed in auto fire in 7.5. Now it seems they are even slower going by the OP's tests. https://empyriononline.com/threads/bug-reports-alpha-7-5.34598/page-15#post-207269
