@styLmntz I assume "thruster damage on" is like in Space Engineers, so that gun would take damage from the thrusters (and/or reduce the efficiency). If to allow it as in your example, same for me. I have to get some inspiration first if to submit a vessel. You could build a vessel with thrusters in the middle, but with STRAIGHT channels out, where only transparent shuttes (or similar) have heat resistance and functionality to let the thrust pass by (in EGS). In SE you can build thrusters completely enclosed, by directing them towards each other, so they share the same "damage zone". I have built a couple of "Borg Cubes" that way, it can be pretty efficient use of space, since then have the whole outer hull to put stuff on (or not) without thinking of exhaust damage or thruster protection.
I am going to throw a dissenting opinion out there. Truss blocks would seriously mess up the flow out of the thruster. As this challenge is mean to assume that the there is engine burn any flat surface put in front of an engine would impact how the engine performs. I would even argue against the windows but the explanation that they are directional vents makes sense and I can see that. However "Let's put a flat peice of metal in front of our engines, one that is meant to hold parts of the hull together" does not sit well with me. In regards to the power usage the very first point of the challenge says. 1. You are only allowed one T1 Large Generator to power it, and the generator cannot redline (go over 90%) during flight on Omicron The iron hawk build proposed by Rucky can redline power usage. It can be made not to redline during Omicron flight but by that logic I could build a ship that is designed to take off purely vertically and call it good. The challenge rule says it cannot redline power usage and this ship absolutely, positively, can do exactly that. Just my 2 creds worth of course. Cheers folks!
Looking at the attachments, that's fine. While the truss blocks cover the thrusters, they are thin blocks and do not visibly block the exhaust from escaping.
I actually rather like that he used this concept as it adds depth and use to a realistic build that can still function far outside of the challenge perameters. I think its creative and puts the responsibility on the pilot to manage his/her ship properly. As Rucky said he has multiple toggles for atmospheric and space flight, I support the build.
I support this Build too! I think it's not fair just because @rucky uses something like an "overdrive" mode to diqualize him for that! The default setting meets the requirements! I think it's right to show all the technical possibilities that the game currently offers (especially because it is a challenge!).
On switching engines, not sold. The ship *can* redline where the challenge specifies that it cannot. I ripped out over half my engines on my entry to meet power requirements, if I could have just turned them off...
Thats the "easy" way! ;-) I think its more difficult to meet the requirements with the additional weight of the thrusters as just remove them!
That's just it; a build doesn't meet the requirements with unpowered thrusters. "the generator cannot redline (go over 90%) during flight on Omicron." If you just scrape the requirements with half the thrusters turned off, the ship can redline during flight on Omicron, so does not qualify. Rucky's ship is lovely, and it's clever, but it doesn't qualify. Now, it's not my final call as it's not my challenge, but the group was asked for opinions, this is mine.
So you actively are going into the ControlPanel to try to break the Configuration, just to break the requirements for the challenge? You know, You have to actively change the Configuration, this would only advanced players do, and these will know, when they switch something on and it f.e. redlines, where the problem could be, namely that configuration change they did beforehand! Additional it would be easy just to remove these additional thrusters, but this would be utterly silly, because that ship - and let's say the truth, many many ships here - will not be used by players in Survival game without refinements and additions to make these ships "playable". So what I've done is providing the player already some additions he *can* use, while still providing the standard requirements and criterias with the default set configuration.
Why? (Sorry, but i really did not find this restriction) I did not read, that all energy consuming components must turned on during the flight(Guns, Lights...)? You are right, that's how I see it too! I think @Robot Shark should speak a word of power!
Well here's my entry to the competition. It's called the Elephant Light Carrier. Tons of internal vehicle space and a rear shuttle deck for a pair of scout SV's or a single combat SV. The upper hangar can fit the Tier 4 shuttle just fine and even a second one if you have a good pilot The lower hangar can fit multiple large movers from my Bulldog Mk1 to the Thanatos Tier 6 tank without issues. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1328858670
"Cannot redline in flight" is not the same as "Won't redline in flight if you don't change any of the configuration", to my mind. Iron Hawk *can* redline in flight; not with the config as-supplied, granted, but it can do it. To argue otherwise is like saying I cannot break the speed limit on the motorway in my car because it's currently in first gear.
To argue otherwise is like saying you have to remove gears 2 to 5(6) because you COULD drive faster in cities. Edit: To add to that analogy: 1st gear = ThrustersNorm for Cities = Omicron, 2nd gear++ = ThrustersSpace for open world autobahns (freeways) = Space...
The opinions swirling around the thruster options of @rucky CV entry is interesting. As for which side of the fence I might lean towards, I would say that I am fine with it. If all thrusters on was the default, then I would object. Then again, depending on how one reads the rules, it would also make sense that this simply shouldn't be allowed at all. So, I am fine either way the final ruling falls on this, even though I do lean in favor of allowing it. In fact, all this discussion of strict adherence to the rules actually excites me. I get distracted easily enough so I am not sure I will get an entry done in time, but I am well aware that it will have to abide the rules or be openly disqualified. Knowing that I will not be allowed to just slide on the rules is somehow exciting.
Of course, the last word will always the Challenge Creator have, and rules, restrictions, guidelines should be there and have a meaning. Still I don't think we should take anything too serious, it's a game after all, and also these challenges should make some fun and should be player-friendly, usable and practical after all! The Truss blocks from @Na_Palm look very cool at the thrusters, still from a burning standpoint, when burning will be implemented, that isn't something only air venting, it's heat that must vent, and if one want's to be very strict, is sadly right. Still I would not forbid them. Rules, restrictions, guidelines are here and have a meaning, still some common sense and immersion (in the meaning of we don't have alot different block(type)s, devices, mechanics and such, for some we try to self-immerse us) should be applied as well! (But if you want to be strict, either the rules must be even more restrictive or at least list all the exact things possible or not allowed, it will be a mess, much less creative freedom, but there should always be fair-minded to any submission)
Thats my opinion too! If all thrusters were on after spawning, ruckys entry should disqualified! But its not. It is an extra bonus! Energysaving is very important in many situations(specially on CVs). Why always switch off to save energy? Why not in the other direction? Why not switch on the overdrive? Maybe (I do not know if planned) will the generator be destroyed/damaged if it gets overloaded for too long? Then you have to think twice if you press the switch! Small example: You can overclock almost every computer today (fun fact: my Mainboard even has a real switch for that )! But it is in my decision whether I press it or not! But I do not complain about the component because it can and it fulfills my requirements!
Analogy aside, as I've obviously missed the mark, are saying the Iron Hawk cannot redline in flight? There are no provisos for config or user actions in the challenge rules; the requirement is "cannot redline". The Hawk demonstrably can, which is why I'd disqualify it. It's a good looking ship, and I might give it a whirl on my next playthrough. 17k ingots at lvl 15 for that much awesome is a good deal Common sense and immersion are subjective, sadly. Even more so when set out in a text medium. I personally don't consider hotspots, airless areas and covered thrusters to be immersion-breaking, for example. The game mechanics currently allow these builds, so I'm ok with them. Opinions vary. Robot Shark's values (for example) are different to mine, and are embedded into the challenge rules about landing gear, thruster covers and device accessibility.
