Feedback Required EXP 1.8 - New Game Start: NINGUES (Snow Starter Moon)

Discussion in 'Experimental Features Discussion' started by Hummel-o-War, May 17, 2022.

  1. thatpixguy

    thatpixguy Ensign

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    Ahh, it appears I benefitted from the probably-bugged output-slot-of-survival-constructor-acts-as-fridge exploit more than I'd imagined.

    Decorative elements tend to drop carbon, presumably from their plastic housings. That and a hoverbike core were the main sources of carbon for me. Just mentioning this as it speeds up the process of searching a POI for potential carbon.
     
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  2. Kundara

    Kundara Ensign

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    Hi folks once again,

    I'm back with an update of my 3rd test, which I started a about an hour ago.

    This test is as yet ongoing, lady luck having granted me a boon at last, so this should be a more rounded playthrough, especially given I can now build on what I've learned from the previous 2 test seeds and any mistakes I may have made and am still still likely to make as I go forward.

    Despite my progress, it is still of note that I got lucky when salvaging a Debris Field. Had it not been a debris field, with the right items to salvage, had it been something else entirely, or if I had got just a little less per salvage, I would still be out in the wastelands freezing in my boots and unable to start the crafting cycle

    I will post my usual full feedback once the test is done but, since I finally have a start about which I can be more positive, I thought it might be nice to give an early preview of how things are going and what may follow.

    Planet Seed, 35310
    Test Branch : v1.8 EXP II
    Test Date : 27/05/22 (late at night/early in the morning, I really should have gone to sleep already)

    3rd Test Game Settings : ( Settings relevant to test )
    • Start Equipment - Medium
    • Keep on Death - Toolbar Only
    • Player Progression - Fast
    • Amount of Ore per Deposit - Rich
    • Number of Deposits - Plenty
    • Check Mass / Volume - Off
    Initial Start

    I have, for the first time, managed to establish a base, using one of my own design spawned from the factory. I started in a more barren area, which forced certain decisions that, in hindsight, could have been better

    It took 3 deaths to get here and, in all honesty all 3 of those deaths could have been prevented had I made better decisions. Could I have made it without any deaths? Possibly so, but we are where we are.

    Death 1 – I had not spent enough time trying to find a source of bud/protein before going off to find stuff. Nothing was obvious from where I stood so picked a direction and off I went and starvation soon followed.

    Death 2 – This was a gamble that, ultimately, paid off. With no survival resources, as I hadn't yet found the plants, and nothing but snowy wastes ahead. I plunged into the expanse between myself and a random structure on a far away hill. Turned out to be a Debris Field. Had hoped I would find survival resources, I found food, but didn't have coffee to defeat the cold. I did find carbon substrate, 6 to be exact, so I made my constructor, then a heater, then realised, as I was dying, that I should've made the heater first!

    Death 3 – I have found, at last, an area with enough plants and buds on which to survive, even some raptors spawned near by so I could admire the red designs they splattered all over the nice white hillside. Update on the Shotgun, still works! I still had not got my base by this point but was in the process of gathering ores and stones for the craft. As I was still outside without shelter I could still become a popsicle, which happens, as I soon forgot all about the coffee in my survival suit output box and promptly die a needlessly cold-related death.

    As things stand my base has now been spawned, I have a motorbike for travel and, in time, I hope to spawn in my scout fighter for a wider exploration of the planet and, hopefully, whatever is in orbit. Not actually sure if the EXP branch has stuff in orbit yet but I guess I'll find out soon.

    As it is, I got what was needed and I can now really test out what new delights this playfield has to offer.

    As always, have fun and see you in the next post.
     
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  3. Kundara

    Kundara Ensign

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    Again, much appreciated for the info, that should indeed speed things up in future. The carbon I got from the hoverbike was also from the core as well, so nice to know it is a reliable source when you find one.
     
    #23
  4. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    That's great feedback on the snow start. Thanks a lot and plz keep it up .. but maybe wait until next weeks EXP3 :D

    - Carbon surface rocks will be added to the starting area
    - Amount of food plants will be increased
    - (Not sure if i dial down the coffe plants a bit).

    The crashsite area will also be reworked in terms how it looks as in EXP2 we still faced the issues that you fe.x could spawn on a hill with no plants at all > should be more aligned to the Barren and Temperate start where you have a "crash zone" that is set up a bit more generous to allow a game start .. and the rest of the planet will be harder to venture through.

    :)
     
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  5. michael.mccawley

    michael.mccawley Lieutenant

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    Is the entire moon of Ningues made of Cobalt? I mean, I started on Skillon, but needed Cobalt, so went to Ningues.

    Flew around. Found a deposit. Landed. Started mining, a deposit marked small.

    Underground, it's Cobalt as far as my drone can go, in all directions. Endless cobalt. Not just rock with wrong texture, it gives Cobalt.
     
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  6. Kundara

    Kundara Ensign

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    Hey folks,

    my last update on my testing for EXP II, although I will continue my save to explore, until the next branch comes out as recommended :)

    Regarding my completion of my test on seed 35310, from a previous post, it has gone well.

    As I said in my last post on the test, I have spawned in my base and am now self sufficient living off the land on Ningues. I may have spawned my base right next to a flower-filled hillside, but since I'm the only one on this moon, I figured why not.

    I completed a full inventory of the moon and it's resources from my scout fighter. I shan't say too much about it as I dont want to spoil it for folks who don't know already. Sufficed to say that I found all the ores I was told to expect and plenty of POI's to poke around in later.

    I can confirm that there is indeed Carbon on this seed, just not the rocks above ground. Once I had the portable constructor I gave up looking for carbon rocks, in all honesty, and focused on gathering stone to craft the carbon substrate I needed. Once I had my HV, then SV, I was able to scan it down and travel far enough to find the underground veins of Carbon that are available elsewhere on the moon.

    Alot of interesting POI's, more so because some of the POI's I looked in to that I've done before in the main game seemed to have a different set of mobs lurking this time around, a nice refreshing touch. That may also be down to the mob spawns available on a snow playfield as opposed to a temperate one, but still was nice to have the variation.

    I am now currently in space and building towards my first warp capable SV so I can explore even more, but for now, seems like there is alot of interesting things happening in the space above Ningues and some new things to discover....

    As always, have fun and see you all in the next post
     
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  7. Kundara

    Kundara Ensign

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    Happy to help, I really enjoy the game and what you're doing with it and looking for ward to EXP 3.

    I like this idea alot. What the player is given to allow them to start must later be earned if their survival is to continue.
     
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  8. thatpixguy

    thatpixguy Ensign

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    Just started again on Ningues in EXP3.

    First time off, I got cocky because of the carbon rocks, and headed off without anywhere near enough bud collecting / rock mining. Froze to death between POI's when I ran out of buds and the heater wasn't enough to offset the cold, even during the day.

    I stumbled across a Legacy Infected, and they are a LOT more alarming when properly aggro'd! I managed to dispatch it with the survival weapon but it was more adrenaline than I've experienced in 1.8 so far :)

    I haven't noticed any tutorial popups really this time around, have they been made that subtle?

    EDIT: Also, it's a nice change of pace to relax in a hot spring while the constructor does its work...

    [​IMG]
     
    #28
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2022
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  9. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    The tutorial has been activated on the 3 other starter moons except Akua (as they are not considered "beginner worlds" ). A note has been added to the game start selection screen as well.
     
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  10. boolybooly

    boolybooly Commander

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    I have just been robbed by a bug which I have seen before which is that if you try to deploy a heater on normal looking terrain it sometimes vanishes completely.

    FYI this has been reported before (by me) and is still happening.

    This is why I try to carry a spare heater and on this occasion I needed it.

    I dont know if it is coincidence or factors which are conditions related to the bug but at the time this happened the temperatuire was dropping rapidly and when I positioned the avatar next to the second heater which I put down in the same place, the game would not register the thermal increase from the heater until I moved the avatar around and found a spot where it would work, which was not necessarily closer, as if the game was willing my avatar to die of cold...!

    NO FAIR!! Stealing my heater is just cheating!

    UPDATE... I just found the missing thermal device about 50m away from the location where I placed it, as if it teleported to a new location.
     
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  11. Kundara

    Kundara Ensign

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    Hey folks,

    Back once more for EXP 3 testing.

    This time round I used no custom settings, just default settings for Medium difficulty. I used the same 3 planet seeds as before:

    Test 1 : 482224
    Test 2 : 959595
    Test 3 : 35310

    Previous Issues :

    1. Carbon - found plenty of carbon rocks on the surface this time around, especially in the start area, so getting production started was not an issue.

    2. Protein Plants - found plenty around the start area, and in other areas where trees and alien bud planets were present.

    Conclusion :

    I think this is now a viable starting playfield, at least on Medium difficulty.

    Whilst it seemed like there are now too many protein plants, sometimes in clusters, the fact that the rest of the moon is essentially barren in this regard may bring balance. Stray too far without first harvesting enough protein or buds for the day and starvation or exposure are still not far behind.

    Along with being able to harvest carbon, I was able to start the game in earnest.. Starting to craft early allowed me, each time, to craft the Shotgun and ammo needed to take down the patrol guarding the convoy in short order. I was then able to use the convoy, and it's shielded compartment, as a temporary base while I explored the area and gathered the resources needed to spawn in my own base and transport.

    Until I could travel further faster, I was limited in range using the motorbike, essentially keeping me tied to the start area, not knowing where the next area with plants may be, as I was still reliant on harvesting food and buds for survival.

    Once I had enough resources to spawn in my SV, this changed. I could rely less on harvesting protein and buds as I could find food in POI's and the sealed cockpit of the SV offered a break from the cold when needed. Once I found armour upgrades in POI's to help protect against the cold I no longer required to harvest buds for warmth.

    This felt like a natural progression.

    The lack of tutorial popups was also a nice change. The presumption of a certain level of knowledge based on the decision to take on a tougher start seems to fit well, I wasn't even asked to turn off tutorials by selecting the 'veteran' option.

    Difficulty :

    On Medium, this was an enjoyable start. Not too hard, with plenty of resources, but knowing that starvation or exposure were not far behind should I fail to take advantage of those resources.

    My over familiarity with the new scenario may be weighting my assessment of the difficulty unfairly as I knew what I would need to get started early and to take down the Convoy to use as an early game shelter.

    Knowing what I was going in to, I already had a low level base and SV blueprint custom made for snow/vacuum starts ready to go. Although, given this is suggested as a start for advanced players, that may be somewhat expected. Not sure how viable this start would be relying on stock blueprints for spawning a base, although there is certainly early options for an SV in the White Dart - my own early SV is a modded version of the White Dart, adding a detector and wireless connection to what is already there.

    It's entirely possible that the Medium start is more difficult than I have considered for someone who has yet to experience a snow-based playfield start, providing the additional challenge intended.

    I've yet to do a Hard start, so I don't know if the new level of resources is enough, too much or not enough to allow a Hard start to be viable.

    Ongoing Testing :

    I'm continuing to play through the start on random seeds, mostly as I enjoy the process, although I may throw in a Hard start, or try a different moon for testing purposes.

    There does seem to be some issues concerning Explorer Tokens, but since that's likely not specific to Ningues I have posted a more detailed query elsewhere on the forum.

    As always, see you in the next post.
     
    #31
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2022
  12. Kundara

    Kundara Ensign

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    Hey there.

    An update on my EXP3 Testing.

    This test was done on the default settings for a Hard Start, as listed below :

    Seed : 432105

    Difficulty Preset: Hard

    Player Settings:

    Start Equipment - Hard
    Keep on Death - Nothing
    Progression - Slow
    Degradtion Speed - Fast


    Life Stats :

    Food - Fast
    Oxygen - Fast
    Temp/Rad Impact - High

    Resources :
    Amount per Deposit - Poor
    Number of Deposits - Few
    Auto Miner Depletion - True

    Enemies :
    Difficulty - Hard
    Drones - High
    Drone Attack Base - High

    Construction :
    Speed - Slow
    Blueprint Spawn - Slow
    Blueprint Limit - False
    Block limit - False
    Check Mass - False
    CPU Points - False

    Getting Started


    This was not easy and, in all honesty, I was a little uncertain as to how aggressive the survival bars would deplete, having never done a Hard start before. As a result I may have hyper-focused on gathering buds and protein plants straight away.

    The higher spawn of protein plants was very welcome. What seemed more than generous on Medium was more than welcome on Hard.

    Likewise the high availability of bud plants was also welcome. Again, what seem generous for Medium was needed on Hard.

    I was able to survive day 1, including crafting a shotgun and ammo to clear the convoy, which I used as shelter from this point on and building the heater and constructor.

    I found out on day 1 that trying to spend equal amounts of time gathering ore and food resources was not viable, my food and cold issues were just too present and ore mining was taking away from time needed, at the start, making sure I had food and could stay warm.

    Grinding out buds and protein on day 2, I was finally able to get enough stockpiled so that I might consider other things come day 3. This was not easy as, at one point, I was using more food and coffee than I was able to find. I thought I had picked the wrong direction as plants became thin on the ground and my survival bars started to plummet.

    I changed direction and went looking for more on my motorbike and was rewarded with enough plants to get through the day and stockpile some for the next. With resources to spare for the next day, I was able to focus more on gathering what was needed for my SV come day 3.

    Once I had my SV, on day 4, which I choose over building a base, I was able to start looting some POI's, from one of which I got lucky and found an EVA booster module for my armour. From this point on I no longer had to worry about the cold, my food issues were reduced as a result, and the rest of the test became a more simple affair. I now have Theta Labs as a base and a SV to head to space so things are going well.

    The cold was a constant issue, especially to start with, as I was drinking coffee as fast as I could make it at one point, and eating when I could between finding ores to mine or trees to cut down. This forced certain priorities when crafting, adding another thing to manage that was critical early on due to the slower crafting speed.

    Conclusion

    As things stand, I think that this is a viable start on Hard settings. The current spawn settings seem like a decent balance, not sure if they are ideal, but providing a challenge requiring focus and attention to survive for the first few days as the player builds a stockpile of food and coffee to allow them to move on to other concerns as the days progress.

    Having never played on Hard settings before I don't have a previous frame of reference for what to expect.

    That said, it did feel like I had accomplished something when I knew I had enough coffee and energy bars to allow me to start exploring properly, instead of just looking at the ground for plants.

    This was a fun, yet frantic, start as I scrambled for early supplies and I was pleasantly surprised I survived it. Some decent luck regarding loot in my first 3 POI's and I was able to move on and start looking towards leaving the planet to continue the story.

    All in, a much better experience than I had expected for my first Hard start.

    As always, see you in the next post.
     
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  13. boolybooly

    boolybooly Commander

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    I played this start on hardest settings for avatar survival , fast food/oxy, high impact temps/rad and slow build constructors and factory.

    It was not easy. I died 3 times in three restarts but got it by #4, so it was doable.

    Main factor was the seed had changed and dropped me on sparsely resourced high plateau with carbon which I needed to vacate ASAP to gather in warmer lowlands which did have a carbon ore deposit but no nodules. This was survivable but pretty close and if you picked an unfortunate direction to escape it could fail, which I think is probably what you want on hardest settings.

    Lowlands were more survivable with thermal doodad and the convoy was in the lowlands. Highland travel was prohibitive with the utterly dreadful motorbike which was useful for faster lowland only travel in straight lines but you cannot use it to push the envelope because it will not turn and digs in to hilly terrain so starter HV or SV with enclosed cockpit becomes essential for all early travel beyond the lowlands.

    I will try a different seed to check consistency.

    UPDATE: tried a different seed and likewise it was doable but you had to pay attention, found a thermal spring which helped as a primary campsite. Zero HV wrecks, I assume that is intentional. I was able to make my own in the factory.
     
    #33
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2022
  14. michael.mccawley

    michael.mccawley Lieutenant

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    I did a new start on Ningues with Medium, and had no troubles. I had a pile of 20 Hot Beverages and I think I used 1. I made my base down in a low land crevasse 100m away from the escape pod, which had water and actual brown mud, which never got colder than 3c. The brief trip up to the Convoy was no trouble with a heater. And jetpacking back and forth over the top of the Convoy POI (low gravity, why not?) got the golems all confused and made it easy to kill them with the Survival tool.

    So, maybe too easy?
     
    #34
  15. boolybooly

    boolybooly Commander

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    Also want to add feedback that getting the portable heater/cooler to work is very hit and miss.

    Your avatar can be standing right next to it and it has no effect, shuffle 6 inches to your left and it works, shift another inch and it stops working.

    IMHO it really should not be so finicky, if you are standing in the light you should reliably get the full effect.

    UPDATE big blemish near engine compartment / crashed shuttle / geothermal garden

    How it should look
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2816765353

    blemish manifesting at a slightly different angle
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2816765345

    this has a physical location, you can fly through it, like two black curtains parallel to each other, odd
     
    #35
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2022
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  16. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Got to agree with this as I've noticed the same thing. I move to stand right next to it, send the Drone off to gather resources and the next thing I know I'm freezing or overheating (other planets obviously). It does indeed seem that the slightest of shuffles, either towards or away from the device makes all the difference.

    Could we perhaps have it firstly be a little more forgiving of player placement, plus perhaps only light up when the player is with its area of influence, thus making it clear the player is safe. Basically, it only powers on when the player is in range.
     
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  17. boolybooly

    boolybooly Commander

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    TBH I quite like that it provides a light even when not near it because this makes it easier to spot in the dark if you lose track of it, like a kind of beacon.

    Though it would be quite nice to have a visual indicator that the heater effect is working, apart from checking the temp readouts.
     
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  18. thatpixguy

    thatpixguy Ensign

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    I've noticed that it's often tricky to stand in just the right spot to get the "Press F to Teleport to Teleporter <planet-type>@Obelisk at <planet>" message at the teleporters in the Obelisk. I've noticed this on all of the starter planets, but I'll mention it here since it's the game I started here that I've been playing the most.

    Sometimes when entering the teleporter, the "Press 'F' to teleport..." message flashes up very briefly, and it is quite tricky to move away far enough to get it to re-appear. Other times, it does not disappear so quickly and stays visible most of the time that you are in the teleporter.

    I notice this when jumping from teleporter-to-teleporter trying to find the right planet. I've since started using the coloured spheres to determine the planets, due to this difficulty. A sufficiently annoying workaround that it reminded me to mention the problem here.

    Is it perhaps fighting with the similar "Use Space / C to move up and down" message from the elevator block?

    I get the feeling it was easier in EXP1, but maybe it's a case of "familiarity breeds contempt" :p
     
    #38
  19. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    I do agree that it's certainly easier to spot when it's lit up all the time, however, with it showing on the mini-map you can't really miss it. I do still think that some clear visual indicator that you're within its operational range would be welcome. Perhaps something like the light colour changes? I.e. it's lit up with a white light when not near it, but that changes to blue (cooling you down) or red/orange/yellow (warming you up) once in range
     
    #39
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  20. boolybooly

    boolybooly Commander

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    I have been testing 1.8 3840 and unless I am imagining things the heater seems less unreliable now. However it does still glitch. So if you did something to fix it, it seems to be helping but it needs a bit more of whatever that was.

    e.g.
    This is it still not working, I waited and waited, nothing. But this only happened a few times as opposed to every time I placed the heater previously.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2819385486

    This is the same location after shuffling around to the opposite side of the heater whereupon it started to work.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2819385511
     
    #40

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