Feedback Required EXP 1.8 - New Game Start: SKILLON (Barren Starter Moon)

Discussion in 'Experimental Features Discussion' started by Hummel-o-War, May 17, 2022.

  1. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Interesting. I built a base in the "Crash Site" biome - which for me was basically low hills, uneven terrain, lots of Plant Protein, mushrooms and fibre plants - and the area was indicating 4.0r consistently. Is the Skillon crash site biome low hills for everyone? I will say however that rad accumulation didn't seem that fast, I think I was at about 0.6 body rads before I built the shower. I really did have the base built very early though, as it was my main goal once the Constructor (plus any collected ores) was placed and the O2 generators were working.

    Regarding the different easier / harder settings for radiation impact, O2 consumption etc. I usually use the default (medium) setting as I assume that represents the balance intended by the devs, with easy / hard being a personal preference modifier. I don't know exactly what the impact of these settings is, could the devs let us know? I.e. is it something like Easy = 50% O2 consumption rate. Medium = 100%, hard - 150%, and something similar with rads?

    Regarding other settings, I usually go "hard" in term of equipment, so I start with very little. I used to go "Hard" for NPC's too, but as that just made them bullet sponges I stopped using that as stuck with the default balance, which feels better, not simply easier.

    Edit: I just went back to double-check this and I suspect I may have had a UI issue. When I started, the area around my base was showing as 4.0r on the right-side panel - the same as the surrounding terrain. After leaving the planet and returning, this same area now shows at 2.5r - matching what others reported. Now, I did venture to the edge - and possible just outside - the "Crash Site" biome during the very early game, and I wonder if the UI updated to 4.0r and then didn't reset to 2.5r afterwards. Can't explain it, but this does explain why despite the reported 4.0r my radiation body radiation gain was low.
     
    #61
    Last edited: May 28, 2022
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  2. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    Actually I would rather prefer to see the Crashsite the other way around...
    High rate of RAD from which the Player tries to get away as fast as possible - with an of course deactivated RP from the start(not even getting asked about it)..
    Normally, me thinks, a crashed Pod would leak fumes and fuels/liquids that would contaminate the area and by passing through the Atmosphere would carry a high level of Radiation.
    Therefore rather a 'Escape from the Pod':NewWink: than an Escape Pod:NewStuckoutTongue:
     
    #62
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  3. BushiNeko

    BushiNeko Lieutenant

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    For sure there needs some feeling of action = reward or effort = benefit.
    For the now it does feel to cheaty and easy. Medium / Normal is pretty much, even for a new player just a matter of live to find the clearly marked start POI and your set with some easy basic. I do feel at the least for normal play some effort to earn a place is needed. Core is a good start.
    It not only requires you find it ( often VERY EASY to do! ) but remove it and craft replace. Not impossible, but does require you KNOW how and what ( more an RP / knowledge thing but something )

    ALSO on that too cheesy. The abundance of free craft remains crazy IMO. Especially that old old issue of the HV. Plus you can actually have a free starter SV with it. I pull the core, replace it and the engines with small thruster = basically free SV. I ve done it twice now. That in itself is not a big deal, but why waste time on the HV when I can just mine and such, get some levels and ' pimp ' the HV to SV? I never bother anymore with HV at all.

    This last start on EXP 2 I just ignored the HV completely on Skillon ( DESERT ) and scrapped the whole thing, then built my first SV from the LIBRARY. No fuss, no muss and an SV with no HV time sunk.

    RADS: I am not sure you want to go so tweaky on the radiation. Especially without some justification. It just gets weird. It's understandable how a planet like that can have high rads, there is really no atmosphere ozone to speak of. So a radiation blanket is logical.
    But if it starts swapping around a lot for no obvious reason ( resources, items in zone ) then it just gets... weird.

    In fact I just replied to another post about a member asking the same thing. Where is the source of this hotspot of radiation?

    I think at least a minimum reason and or cause is needed for every major change affect of rads, temp, etc.
    The equator could be a death trap for sure tho. Even ignoring going into some huge science explanation of ozone spots, it just would make simple sense.. equator hot and more radiation. ( that's just game keep it simple vs science facts of course )
    And the opposite on VERY distant planets. That line wont mean so much. Simple kindergarten explaining if nothing else. ;)

    There is food for thought too.
     
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    Last edited: May 29, 2022
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  4. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    I think having the free POI bases as Alien or perhaps without a Core / missing some devices might be quite nice.

    Having certain area being a bit hotter when it comes to rads would be good too. It's a shame that POI's can have a local RAD level set, as this would be perfect for wrecks and the like. I.e. a said wreck might contain some goodies, but there's a risk.

    I tend to agree with @Germanicus regarding his suggestions. Having to grab your stuff and flee the environmentally-hostile crash site would be quite cool. I ended up setting up camp in the crash site as it offered everything I needed. That's great for a start that's intended to be fairly easy, but not if this start is supposed to be a little more tough and aimed at experienced players. Now, having some decent goodies here, be it resources or perhaps other wrecks, might be cool, as the player can perhaps return when they're better equipped to exploit them.

    When surveying the area during the crash sequence, my initial inclination was to make a bee-line for the trees (there were three circles of vegetation) I could see in the distance. However, the crash site had such good resources that I never left. The idea of heading for that "Oasis" in the distance though, gather what I can on the way is appealing.

    Note: I do also like the ideal of (luckily) crashing into an "Oasis" type biome, with all the basics to get set up, then push forward into more hostile areas. I think this start would have been more challenging if places outside the starting area were harsher. I think I had a minor UI glitch as, before leaving the planet and coming back, my HUD was showing 4.0r everywhere, leaving me to believe that the crash site wasn't any safer in that regard.

    As this is intended to be a harder start, I think it's important we cannot just settle down and set up base right where we land and have everything we need. Their either needs to be good resource, but we cannot survive (yet) due to environmental conditions such as rads, temperature or nasty critters. Or it's "ok" for immediate survival, but we need to go forth to gather stuff from less hospitable areas. I.e. perhaps we can craft a basic shelter (BA) from available resource (Wood, Carbon, small number of resource rocks) but to be able to build further (BA expansion, HV / SV) we need to move out, as local resources cannot support that.

    I have really enjoyed this start, but have a number of observations:

    - I think the available resources in the starting area were a little too generous for a harder start.
    - I had little reason (other than exploration / curiosity) to venture further (until I was ready) for this reason.
    - When I did venture forth, I didn't feel there was any greater danger for me (in part due to UI being stuck on 4.0r everywhere, I didn't realise it was higher rads)
    - That said, it was fun to establish a base early and have a camp to explore from like this. I'm usually an HV first type of player.
    - The Rad level (on medium) was good to motivate progress to get a BA - with shower - quickly.
    - The O2 situation was pretty spot on, giving a good balance of the need to get the dead basics - Portable Constructor (making fuel) and O2 Gens set up ASAP.
    - I could have had a free BA within the first few minutes, one was situated just outside the crash site. However, I initially assumed more danger / hostile environment than was actually present. Plus, I tend to ignore such freebees anyway.
    - Having to actually do some work - craft a Core, Generator / solar to get a base up and running would be better in my view.

    Anyway, random brain dump there.
     
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  5. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    All good points. :)

    So what I get as as a summary (Although might be too late to get it into EXP3): Either drop the idea of a "safe harbor" of the crashsite and turn it around OR make the stay more unpleasant (reduce rad mushrooms and resources).

    What I'll possibly do apart from that
    - Change drop of Scraper drones (maybe add a chance for biofuel or a small energy cell?)
    - Rise RAD in certain biome spots
    - Remove functional devices fully from Opportunity (vent, growing plots, solar generator) + make a few visible holes in the shell.

    Thoughts?
     
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  6. boolybooly

    boolybooly Commander

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    If you rejig the start zone to be radiation hostile then it will provide a significantly different dynamic with early logistical challenges but you are going to have to rebalance the rest of the planet for radiation and resources to make it work.

    With fast oxygen use currently you must have two gens running ASAP and that will mean setting up a camp just outside the high radiation start area, as you wont have time to travel further.

    If it is 4.0R in the start zone it needs to be 2.5R nearby, because it wont be survivable at 4.0R on hard settings.

    One can envisage a situation where the player has to raid high rad zones for resources rather than live among them which is OK though biologically counterintuitive to have life in high rad zones. You should really encounter low rad biozones and higher rad mineral nodule zones.

    Then the start zone would need to be mineral zone encouraging escape to a lower rad biozone nearby to get food and biofuel after grabbing enough carbon to make constructor, oxy gens and thermal device.

    Life would prosper in less extreme temps which are currently found in the high plateaus not the lowland desert. This suggests the biozones would be higher and the mineral zones lower and even hotter than desert in the day as well as higher rads all the time. This would be consistent with the spider pits having higher rads and temps as well, as if the rads are coming from the planet.

    We may run up against that bug causing objects outside the start zone to take longer to become harvestable in the region approaching Opportunity unless it is in a different direction to the biozone.
     
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  7. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    I think having the crash site as a relatively (some rads) safe harbour but perhaps with fewer resources would work. Enough for the player to be able to gather what they need for the basics - Portable Constructor and O2 Generator - and be able to construct a very basic base. As one log can make a decent number of Wooden blocks, this works. This allows the player to collect what resources (consumables too) are available, set up camp in a temporary base to get out of the radiation, shower store stuff and refrigerate food items. This then forms a good basis for scouting trips to gather more resources / explore in more hostile environs.

    This is basically how I played this start, and loved it, I just feel the starting area's resources were a little too generous. For the record, I never once used any meds (mushrooms) to counter radiation, I built a base quite quickly but then that was my focus.

    I will say that I think the idea of a particularly hostile crash site, where the player is forced to collect what they can and flee is also potentially fun. However, unless there are really tempting things (resources, POI's) in that Biome, the player is likely to never return, making the biome only a brief player experience. With a more hospitable crash site biome, with surrounding areas less so, the player can focus on the basics of collecting basic, fuel production and O2 Generation, before building a basic shelter.

    Scrapper Drones dropping something that's immediately useful would be great. Be it basic crafting items or fuel, that's what the player needs early on.

    The idea of being on an "island" (the crash site) surrounded by higher rad areas the player can only stay in for a short while appeals to me. Having to return to that initial camp to offload and decontaminate is cool. After a couple of trips being able to build a basic vessel then allows the player to do more.

    Having POI's like Opportunity etc. needing some work to make functional would be great. Perhaps allow them to have the odd free "bonus" Device, with the different free base models each have something distinct? One might have working O2 (just needs topping up) another might have a grow plot or two...you get the idea. Also, these POI's need to be in a logical location. I.e. why did the (theoretical) original (now dead?) builder set up there? So, having one in a high rad area (for example) that has decent resources nearby makes sense. Having one in that same high rad area where no resources are present...less sense.

    As an aside, when considering the various environmental hazards the player can face early-game with the various starts, do you think it's time to allow us to craft basic Suit Mods? I.e. Radiation and Temperature boosts? The player has had to rely totally on luck to get these for so long, yet they can be so very critical to gameplay in some environments. A lucky find can be the difference between a near impossible and trivial challenge. For example, without a boost the player cannot survive in a certain zone for very long without spamming appropriate counters such as hot / cold drinks, rad protection etc. With a boost, they have a window in which to actually do things. The boost may not offer total protection, but enough to allow an extended activity window.
     
    #67
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  8. Foofaspoon

    Foofaspoon Commander

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    Just played Skillon in phase 3. Thought I would put down a few thoughts!

    Firstly, love the look of the place, same with all the new worlds. Though an empty world, I still found there was a lot of enjoyment in exploring, just taking in the sights. Nice to find things, not just the POIs, but things like the crater with pentaxid. With 1.8 it is really encouraging me to just enjoy exploring the worlds. I'm sure as I get used to the new Deco it will loose some of that initial wow factor, but it gives me that sense of being on an alien world, so immersive.

    Love the new NPCs - the scrappers are great. As I landed, there were a couple of the Overseers flying over head which were just wow - again so immersive! However, with the Overseers, the one problem is them popping into and out of existence. Up until this point, it hasn't really mattered to much about render range of NPCs - but now we have big flying NPCs it highlights this and it is a little jarring. Not sure if there is anything that can be done about that though.

    In terms of difficulty (I was set to medium) I did find it quite an easy start. I had plenty of time to gather lots of materials, set up a base camp and start cranking out oxygen and get opportunity built up. Lots of good ideas above, and wouldn't want it to become punishingly more difficult but I do agree it probably is not quite challenging enough atm.

    Overall good work, loving the new planets and NPCs

    Oh, the PDA quest seemed to be working perfectly, no hiccups or lost quests this time!
     
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  9. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    I agree that critter - and NPC in general - pop-in can be quite jarring. In heavily wooded or hilly areas one can imagine they just popped out from behind that tree or just wandered over the brow of that hill. When they just pop in suddenly in open terrain - or mid-air in particular - it isn't ideal. Seeing them pop in and out as they move around right on the edge of render range is a thing too. Can critter / NPC render range be increased at all?
     
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  10. The Big Brzezinski

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    If they're scrapper drones, maybe they should drop multitool charges.
     
    #70
  11. BushiNeko

    BushiNeko Lieutenant

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    Having read over the follow ups, and trying to keep it short.
    Scraper is super cute still... but annoying zipping around with no actual goal.
    I am favoring adding the chance for some to be hostile... drops would be logical of multi tool charge in that, along with ' scraps '.
    Yes.. the entire RAD thing remains in need of tweaking, along with the ' safe ' harbor. And the now way easy rad med creation... :-/
    Challenge, but not frustration is always better than... well. That is nothing but 5 mins of my time to solve.
    YES. To easy remains the biggest ' gripe ' I have with the new starts. There is just to much free stuff around to present any challenge = reward still.
    :CatKissing:

    P.S. Any ideas on requiring....something... to power the shower? Water still tops my list of most logical. And adding more reason to acquire it
     
    #71
  12. BushiNeko

    BushiNeko Lieutenant

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    I just broke orbit on the ' Skillit ' ;) for v3.
    So far this iteration was good on world. The balance was overall better feeling.
    Opportunity felt better finding.
    Was able to not trip over HV all over.
    Had to really work a little for resources to dump in IKEA ( library ) ship T1 to leave in. Grindy but not yawwwwn.

    0 crashes during play.
    0 bugs showed heads.

    Sticking to all medium / default for this one

    Wish me luck in space!
     
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  13. boolybooly

    boolybooly Commander

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    Tried this on hardest settings (fast oxy food, high impact rad therm, slow constructor bluprint) 1.8.3831.

    It was tricky because the start zone is now 3.0R. This means you cannot survive without taking meds for radiation burn, there just isnt enough time for any preventative method. The good news is the meds now reduce contamination so its a viable start and you can spawn in a base or build a micro base with shower after taking a couple of these, which are possible to make thanks to the mushrooms

    No HV wreck so spawned my own.

    I found a more productive POI in Abandoned Vessel Factory which was tricky on high impact because you dont have much time in the open due to the 5.0R environment. Opportunity is really not much use now except for the meds and salvaging the core for computers as you cannot change its faction and you dont want a base in 5R territory and you dont want to go out to it before you have your own shower base set up on the start zone and meds manufactured there because 5R costs too much contamination for too little reward early game.

    If you want Opportunity to be useful it needs to be in the starter zone IMHO.

    Oh and the hotdog plants look like lipstick now, bit too pink IMHO.
     
    #73
  14. boolybooly

    boolybooly Commander

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    Tried this on hardest settings (fast oxy food, high impact rad therm, slow constructor bluprint) 1.8 v4

    Seems like harder Oxy timing now, there are about 5 secs of oxy left when you get your first refill if you do everything in the right order ASAP. Maybe I was just sleepy this morning or the seed was harder for early carbon.

    It is playable, there was a surplus of food and mushrooms, about twice as much as would be comfortably enough but that can also vary by seed.
     
    #74
  15. boolybooly

    boolybooly Commander

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    I checked in v 1.8 3840 whether it was possible to play this start with all hard settings plus slow levelling as that increases the time before you can start to make the portable constructor. I found it did not cause a problem because there was a bit of slack in making 5x food bars at the beginning and slow levelling just used that slack as it takes about 8 items more to get lvl2 to unlock the portable constructor, which is feasible while gathering carbon for the constructor.
     
    #75
  16. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Hi,

    I did a fresh start with Exp IV on Skillon - my current favourite starting planet. Once again things were pretty easy on a mixture of Medium and Hard settings, however, I did have to work a little harder. As I sorta know what I'm doing, I had O2 production up and running in ample time, and an oxygenated shelter built quite quickly. I've not had any issues with resources, however, I've had to work harder / travel further for them. For me, the starting area is over three times the size is was in my prior game. So, while resources are plentiful, they are much more spread out. This is good. I've not venture far outside this area, but 5.0 rads mean I'd not want to stay too long out there on foot.

    Thought: Plants that grant O2 when picked would be an interesting option. I.e. pick plant, consume their "fruit" and gain a little O2 back. This would allow for more roaming before the player is obliged to set up a camp in order to leave the O2 Generator producing. Currently, not that I mind, but the player is very much tethered to that initial camp until they have sufficient O2 to roam further. Once the player has an HV, it's all moot of course. Just a thought.

    Note: I inadvertently left it on normal levelling speed, which meant my level has sort of run away from my ability to actually craft stuff. So, what I can actually achieve isn't really impacted during the early-game, if you see what I mean.

    Edit: Just to add, I think the resource balance in the starting area is spot on. I cleared the place out of Ore rocks and didn't have enough to build a basic HV. I expect Seed might make a difference (starting area is procedural and not hand-crafted right?) so I had to venture away from the stating area a good while to gather what I needed - and get some handy loot in the process. Nice balance. I now have a basic HV, so can explore further, which is what I'm doing.

    Some further feedback:

    - Those "free" base POIs. Much better now they're wrecked / alien Core, but there are still a few too many of them.

    - Wrecks: Lots of these, they add flavour but don't contain much of use. By the time the Player is venturing forth to discover these, they have an HV (most likely) and the basic resources. The loot these provide is generally not that great, a bit of Steel Plate or, rarely, some food.

    - Other POI's: While many contain nothing of note, they're just a step above "Wreck" POI's, certain POI's like the Submerged Tank contain useful loot. The more difficult POI's ramp the challenge up nicely for the early-game.

    Overall, I'm really liking this balance. It's likely not a challenge for an experienced player, but does offer an entertaining start.
     
    #76
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
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  17. Kundara

    Kundara Ensign

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    On a number of seeds for testing I have found Promethium deposits which have nothing in them but crushed stones.

    I first encountered this after flying to Skillon form Ningues but since then I've done multiple starts on Skillon and this happens more often than it should. So far about 1/3 start seeds where I've started on Skillon, or visited Skillon after leaving ningues, the Promethium deposits have been empty.

    Not sure if this has been an issue before but thought I'd mention it just incase indicative of something more problematic.
     
    #77
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  18. BushiNeko

    BushiNeko Lieutenant

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    @Hummel-o-War
    Confirmed on Omnicron after my skillet start.
    Promethium shows as such, mines as ore.
    Giant hole leaves indicator of Promethium with no mining change.. but no ore. :-/
     
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  19. The Big Brzezinski

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    All the promethium ore deposits I was able to dig up from Skillon were in underground nugget form. Been a while since I needed an ore scanner.

    EDIT: Looked like this. This isn't Skillon obviously, but the promethium deposits were the same.
    [​IMG]
     
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    Last edited: Jun 12, 2022
  20. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    When I first did the new Skillon start in Exp II, the Promethium deposits were regular voxel ones. In my current Exp IV start, they've been nuggets so far. I assume this is a deliberate change?

    Basically, we need to use Ore Scanner visor thingy again for promethium.
     
    #80

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