I would like some mods for weapons like some other games have. They could even remove the T2 and "Epic" classes and replace them with mods for specific weapons, if ID limit is a problem. Then transfer the "tiers" system to mods quality that players can either unlock with progression in game. What would be more "realistic" would be to die if 1 bullet hits the right spot, but no one would like that. We could also bleed to death, lose usage of limbs, and high velocity weapons could pierce targets and hit the ones behind, etc. Games replace all that by the meta "damage" concept, and doing better at this means aiming at things that cause more negative effects on the target than aiming at softer spots. Since targets are not "realistic" either because of modelisation and computing constraints, we can't really aim at a joint or precise point expecting to affect the target more or less, except for the head/ body multiplier difference. The "damage" meta takes care of that very simply. For the drill, and multi-tool "damage" also translates to getting more ore faster or faster scavenging, meaning ============================================================== About other stats that could be modified by skill increase, maybe... - health items ( faster/ more points ) - food items ( same as above ) - armor mods ( more efficient ) - could be breaked down into each category for example 1 upgrade for cold resist, one for radiation resist, etc. - weapon degradation ( slower with better skill / player has good maintenance habits) -camera shake for weapons ( similar to better recoil compensation / could be coupled with recoil ) It could be a cool thing also to raise the values of the main stats when leveling up ( Health, Stamina, Hunger ) but there's only Health in the eClassConfig...
What would be more engrossing for me, as far as combat/damage/etc, would be if humanoid bad guys actually acted like they didnt want to die sometimes. It is certainly convenient for me to zap a Zirax only to see them turn and run directly towards me, and directly into my hail of fire...but it would be far more "challenging" if they reacted to damage by at least immediately trying to seek some sort of cover. Some bugs flee for a moment when hit, so seeing bad guys do the same would be nice. I can see the legacy creatures having a reckless assault, but trained soldiers should know that not getting shot is an excellent strategy in a gun fight.
You can't make this game too realistic, as then it would be unplayable. We can walk round with 3 trees in out packpack... I do like the idea of 'more realistic' with you dying of you get shot in the head, and you are not wearing your helmet. This would have to depend on the armour and what you are shot with. This would also need the enemy AI looking at and balancing. Also seeing that I can hardly see where the cross hair is, then all of the above is irrelevant to me. Don't get me wrong, the game would be really great if it had the same features as Escape From Tarkov, but I just can't see it happening.
@Spoon : that is exactly my point. I was just showing that instead of "realism" we have the "damage" concept, which compensates for elements that we can't modelise. I had my fights against "realism" quite regularly, don't worry. This is like music in movies, where people will say after X scene "that was so moving"... Take out the music, and the same scene is just boring.
Empyrion already has the 'damage' feature in the game, with the Tier system for the weapons. To add to this with more damage per 'skill level' would just make the game more tacky, in my opinion.
This is just a switch available for scenario makers ; it's not an obligation to use it. For those who will aim for more RPG setups that's one more option available. In other games players have all kinds of boosts like "berserk mode" or weapon buffs on X consecutive kills. If Eleon had not included "damage" in the possible modifiers, someone would have complained and asked for it.
Well hey look.. my 0.02 -> ARK Survival has weapons damage down PERFECT... it is all linked to the quality of the weapons (which I think Empyrion should look into) that modify the damage done.. and then, there are modifiers based on where you hit the thing.. like in the head its more damage (which this already exists)... The only other thing in ARK is the player's AIM, and that's a real-life skill using that mouse or whatever, and has nothing to do with the in-game player character's skill level (with the exception of melee damage from hand to hand combat). Look, if I shoot my bow and arrow with 100% damage modifier, but I miss the dodo bird, that's completely on me, that's the skill part. If I hit it exactly the same with two different bows, 100% and 120% damage modifiers on the bows, then that is a function of the weapon quality, and has zero to do with skill, but, 'damage' will increase. I think its important to vet out some of this stuff now before they put in too much work on stuff even new players will scratch their head. This is a good discussion, and I don't consider it "people fussing about".. because this is setup specifically for feedback on the idea; literally the point of this pinned topic!
The modifier is applied to the weapon, not to the player. It has to come from somewhere, and it has to use values available in the weapons config. This is an "invisible" process, but the developers expose it here for us to understand how it works. For the time being, we don't have new "items" like mods, and we can't have "new weapons" because of the lack of ID problem (Unity default system limit). But that doesn't prevent the feature from being made functional, and it's up to players and modders to use it as they wish. So as a simple example, the "passage" to a "better damage output" via this "skill" mechanic has to be abstracted, but the result is that the weapon does more damage, NOT the player >> it's the weapon ''damage'' stat that gets modified. And since it will only be modifiable via a scenario then it's just a question of making it credibly : " To reward you for X action, young spaceman in pajamas still not wearing an armor on this hostile planet, I will teach you how to slightly modify the pistol you are holding so it will hurt thy enemies a lil bit more". We don't really need to believe it nor to see the guy replacing parts, do we ?
For those who will aim for more RPG setups, why didn't they add the ability to crouching and going prone? People have been asking for this for a long time. Going down the RPG route without these is just another half baked change, IMO. Personally, I'm not a fan of the route the scenario makers are going at the moment, with their 'corridor shooter' POI's
Because they're allergic to work on anything with proper animation ? Your guess is as good as mine... Sure, but still, one step is better than no step at all. Not a fan either, but I'm not playing these scenarios myself. My main problem, like surely is the case for others, is that not knowing what is coming next makes it hard to decide what to do in terms of scenario, design, balance or modding. All powers to those who decided to commit themselves to scenarios and unavoidable maintenance/ "public relations" at this point, but I'm not into this because I'm the kind of guy who wants to see all tools and parts on the table before diving into a lengthy task. And presently, big parts of the puzzle are still missing, and doing trial and error with temporary tools/ incomplete features is like trying to find the shore when lost at sea in a thick mist...
Just another minor note on "realism"...One of my favorite "realistic" weapons game, oddly enough, was Red Dead Redemption. Anyone who has done much shooting can tell ya that a 9mm shot out of a $100 Hi-Point pistol will smack you just as hard as a 9mm coming out of a $500 Glock or CZ. So when games start down the path of "better gun = better damage" I always cringe, just a little. If there is something intrinsic about the weapon that would increase damage, then cool...i.e. a sniper rifle firing a larger round, or a laser weapon having better beam control or whatever. But a T1 Pulse rifle that shoots the same ammo as a T2 Pulse Rifle makes little sense to me. T2 should (in my opinion) perhaps have a higher rate of fire, a longer effective range, or a higher durability. I know, its all about game balance and providing the player an incentive to get out and seek new treasure. But a rifle round coming out of a minigun has no >realistic< reason for causing less damage per round than an assault rifle or pulse rifle.
It's also about "fun". Everyone has his own domain of "expertise" and can argue to no end around it. We had the same kind of endless discussions regarding physics, where "specialists" were constantly criticizing the game because of how it treated physics. Their endless pressuring for "realism" mostly resulting in the developers trying to please both parties with "compromise" features, which were neither "realistic" nor "pure fun fantasy". We had the same for "food" and "medical items" and now it's a mess new players can't understand and it's not an ounce more "realistic" than it was previously, nor "more fun", just more convoluted. We had the same for "mass and volume" , the same for "logistics" (what a joke), the same for "power consumption" (loook at how unrealistic it is : X device takes sooo little power! It SHOULD take WAY more) and then players pour on the forum complaining their base has been drained and plants died/ food perished while they were offline. I could go on like that for each and every "change" we had in the last years. And now the guns... Don't look too far why we often get half-baked features that satisfy no one. But at least we can get some comfort knowing they will expand the feature, and that we still have the freedom to use it as we want.
I knew there had to be some reason I dont play that **** - actually 'MMO' is enough of a hint to stay well away. I have no problem with things that are naturally player skill but thing whos behaviour should be entirely self contained to the thing should remain so. So a gun, rocket launcher etc make no sense to benefit in damage from a skill but accuracy recoil etc - that make sense to some extent. OTOH, weapons that would logically benefit from the skill/strength of the player (throwing knives, bow (to some extent), melee, magic etc), then fair enough. Doing this to guns, rockets etc is just plain lame and anti-immersive. Next it will be endless grind gear score crap as some cheap way to extend the game/grind...
I want bothered so much about more realism, but more bothered about there being less blatant and inexplicable (beyond someone at Eleon thought it was a good idea at the time) unrealism.
And at no point in my post was I asking for a change. I understand why it is the way it is, and think its fine, and "fun" is fine. Just pointing out something in regards to the "realism" that was being discussed. I really dont want the game to be much more "realistic" than it is, or we will have to run cables through ships, only be able to eat a hamburger with our helmets off, and never use the wireless feature to transfer 5 gazillion tons of ore magically through space.
what if the weapon damage skill increase applied not to the weapons the player USES, but the weapons they MAKE? you still get to dish out more damage when you up your skill, but it makes a little more sense. you make better guns. although, dont get me wrong, i still like the weapon handling skill ideas like accuracy (weapon spread), reloading, and recoil. those would obviously apply to the guns youre currently using. but imagine leveling up your weapon skills and being an arms dealer in mp servers.
I'd say that what @ChumSickle post #31 would apply to this. Quote "Anyone who has done much shooting can tell ya that a 9mm shot out of a $100 Hi-Point pistol will smack you just as hard as a 9mm coming out of a $500 Glock or CZ.". Your suggestion above is just like the current tier system with the guns. I agree with you that the 'skill level' makes more sense to "accuracy (weapon spread), reloading,".
Having watched the debate here, I have to say I still really don't get why some people are up in arms about (one part) of this system. To complain that character skill increasing damage is unrealistic seems an absurd argument to make in a game that has already happily abstracted out such things into a hp & damage system, one the bares no relationship whatsoever to real life, as demonstrated by @ChumSickle. This system already effectively uses these things as proxy for aspects of the characters skill. As someone pointed out above, you can invent any number of handwavium explanations for this, if you really want to spend the mental energy doing so (and coming from a d&d background, there are thousands of pages of debate about these things!) At the end of the day, this game has always prioritised 'arcade fun' over realism - thank goodness. I for one would hate a 'realistic' FPS take on the ground combat (though there is much, much room for this to be improved obviously).
Yeah...would suck to have to set up inertial dampeners in all of our vehicles for when we go into warp/speed up/crash. Or having those mutilations and broken bones take days to heal...or the magic of extinguishing the flames that engulf our bodies from a Zirax flamethrower with a bottle of water...or being able to stand 1 foot from an XL capital ship booster without immediately evaporating. Realism is cool, until it isnt.
I'd like to see a weapons upgrade system ideally. Be able to for example use different ammo, attachments, etc to modify a specific weapon. The player skills is cool too.
