Thats because we DON'T WANT it implemented in the game. Not half-way, not this way or that way...We just want it out of the way. Just a minor correction: I personally am not trying to provide better ways to do something I think is a mistake all the way around. So, in that regard you are correct. I DO think I've gone above and beyond, explaining what I would like...ad nausim. I would like it gone, or a way to avoid it if they insist on using this tech/level system as part of the game.
Have you tried using the jet pack? LOL! I'm starting to re-learn Mario Brothers just so I can keep from committing suicide every time I try to fix the roof of my SV.
@Alo see me and Otterbear is not in the same page... not even in the same book.. for some unknown reason(as far as I understand, progression somehow hinder his imagination) he is against any type of progression... so it was , and still is an argument..
@HM POWERED I really regret that English is not my first language to be able to express myself with the same easiness like you. (It's not a joke I'm serious). I'll try to express correctly for start So I think I understand your point and I respect it. But if you read all the topic why you didn't talk about "optional" tech-tree ? I understand the purpose of a sandbox game is (I think ...), but most generally in a video game the purpose is to have fun, I think we are agree on this point. So what is the problem if you can deactivate the tech tree with an option in creation map ? (You could play with a sandbox like you want and the other ones with tech tree activate for them.) For the purpose of a sandbox game in the first place I don't really appreciate creative mode but I never ask dev to kick it from the game because it's "optional". (I just said that to press my last point ). Ok I'm not a specialist of sandbox game the (really) one I know is Minecraft (where is not tech tree or leveling up) and a bit Terraria. But Minecraft still is a sanbox like you describe it : no forcing goal, access to everything since the begining and especially the total freedom to make what you want like you want when you want (expect the order to go to the End you have to go in Nether first, it's probably the only obligation in solo mode, because many server let you go there trough portal enable for everyone <= I don't really like this system personally). Anyway what I like in Minecraft was in survival mode. Like you mentioned it I'm adult too and I make my own challenge. @Mindkiller asking and even if he respond for us I disagree to his answer "No". It's the type of challenge I've already done in minecraft like kill the dragon with only wood sword on even with hand (it's very very long). So attack an outpost armed with almost nothing is for me a good challenge, maybe not right now because I'm not totally familiar with all the mechanics of the game but in future yes it's a good challenge and especially fun to try it with the goal of a survival : do this without dying. I also playing actively to ARK : Survival Evolved. Many player say in first time playing "Oh it's like Minecraft : cutting wood with hatchet or stone with pickax !" But it's probably the only likeness in fact. ARK is not a sandbox game but a survival game, and in this one we have a sort of tech tree. First time playing (after 3 years of Minecraft) I was a bit lost to don't have access to every thing in the game until a certain level. Worse when update came out and added new item I can't testing because I don't have the level. But I still playing because the game offer so many other way to play and to have fun I finally don't care to have access to all. And in Empyrion maybe @Mindkiller has right when he ask I think it'll be interesting to have also the opinion of the dev themselves on this question. I take Empyrion like a SURVIVAL-sandbox game with survival aspect in first place more than sandbox I don't have the same approach of you about the question of tech tree. And more the tech tree is actually pretty unbalanced and no blocking you long time. But in the future I think it will do it. And like in ARK you can't making weapons or food tier 2 or other thing that don't exist yet in the game until a certain level. Like I said before I don't need someone taking my hand to create my own challenge but I don't take the tech tree like this. Because in survival game we can imagine a background story who explain why our character don't know everything on everything and put the necessity to learn thing in time (in fact like in ARK). Another point I find it's a good thing in a survival game to get a tech tree is to push player to cooperate like in ARK when you get the max level you have access to everything but you can't "buy" everything so choice became a bit strategical and need a bit organization between player in the same tribe. So it's why I like the idea of tech tree. The actual need to be balanced but the global idea is good for me. But I stay agree with you when you said it not a good thing to get a tech tree in a sandbox game. And I still think it's a good thing in a survival game. And I understand if your approach is about a sandbox it's a fully limited version with the tech tree and deception. And I disagree player who talked about playing creative mode if you don't like tech tree because there is no challenge (from my point of view) in creative mode (but the BIG ENORMOUS ASTRONOMICAL construction) you can imagine in normal mode. Not only about killing creature but also about mining all material to create thing yourself for example. I guarantee to them in Minecraft the building make in survival mode was more impressive than in creative mode even if it's smaller. And in Empyrion it will be the same thing. So I repeat my ask, for your fun in sandbox and our fun in survival game, why not an option "Creative/Survival/Sandbox" gaming ? Where more player could continue to playing Empyrion not like you not like me but like themselves ? And more Survival Mode like I said in my last post here I will also please by an other approach : RPgaming. So "Creative/Survival/Sandbox/RPG" gaming option ? Ok It'll be very difficult for the dev lol Maybe the RPG aspect join the Survival aspect ... PS : Hope to be readable and understood with my Englilsh
Look, I never questioned your leadership skills directly or passively. If that comment was directed at me (since you quoted me and no one else) I am sorry you think I was specifically calling you out in the first place, because I wasn't even replying to you. If you look at my other posts, I am not disagreeing that the system needs to change considering I suggested a change myself in the Suggestion Section. What I was replying to was that the game has not really changed. Means the system we got was a failure because it didn't slow the player down in any shape or form. The doom & gloom posts of the game becoming unplayable is baffling because how I played did not change, and I still could accomplish the same tasks in the same amount of time with or without the stupid XP. As far as the team based play is concerned, and I apologize this wasn't made clear, but we never ran into conflicts with XP because we had so damn much of it, the system was totally irrelevant. Even when we only went for what we needed, most (if not all) of us had the whole damn tree unlocked anyhow. Aside from that, it was business as usual of x goes to mine, I'll go raid that base, and y and z go hunt for meat. When we raided a base as a group, it was call targets and that's about it. No one cared about the XP, and let me make this clear a second time, because the stupid XP was irrelevant. Not sure why I got singled out, but whatever the reason I am in agreement with you so you're barking up the wrong tree. I only welcomed the change at first because I thought it would slow me down and give me some form of progression, and it accomplished neither. I suggested a totally different system, one that was more based on crafting and not XP. The fact that this discussion is going on in like 4 different threads doesn't help either, because you'd have seen those posts. If you're gonna quote someone and get pissy, make passive aggressive comments, and the like, next time call out someone that is actually disagreeing with you. EDIT: I realized today that a game I reviewed, GRAV is pretty much the same route Empyrion is kind of going, and I really hated GRAV because it was essentially Borderlands in Space. I really do not want to see this game go that route.
Honestly, I found it a little less grindy than before. But maybe grindy is not the right word. Allow me to explain... Before the tech tree, early-game (for me, at least) was usually spent setting up a few recipes in the constructor, then sitting around and waiting for them to finish. Now, with the tech tree, it's broken up a little bit. Set a few recipes, then wander around and shoot animals, collect plants. Return to the Pod, add a few new recipes that you learned, and repeat. So, for me at least, early-game is a lot more interesting now. Sitting around for 10 minutes while the constructor struggles to produce a few blocks was mighty annoying, IMO.
The problem I see is that the second they added the XP, it made people pay attention to what they were already doing. Now, the same stuff you have to normally do in the early game feels like a chore, and it wasn't the game itself pushing you anymore but the XP system. They've made it appear that if you're not getting the XP+ every couple of seconds, you're failing and that is not the right approach. The game needs to give incentives to progress, but the more you look at this system, the less it makes any sense early implementation or not.
The main thing I liked about Empyrion was that, unlike most survival type games out there, the game mechanics made enough sense for me to suspend my disbelief to allow me to feel immersed in the experience of survival on a remote alien world. This new "tech tree" system really breaks that immersion for me. Having a world where you now have to grab everything you see to gain "experience" points turns it from an adventure/survival experiance to something that feels like a more child oriented, collection game, like Candy Crush or Mario Bros. The"for everything insignificant thing you do you must get a little reward" mechanic, tends to appeal to kids who crave constant feedback and direction. If many people want this kind mechanic in Empyrion, perhaps the feature could be made optional through the settings screen. This tech tree thing, while not a game breaker, for me is an enjoyment breaker. Fortunately, I have an older game I can resume that lets me explore and do what makes sense to survive and most importantly, to have fun. For me, game mechanics need to make enough sense in relation to the games premise to allow me to suspend my disbelief enough to accept that premise and get lost in the experience. Getting lost in experiences is, for me, the entire point of gaming. That said, this has been a fun ride and I really appreciate the dedication of the dev team with their frequent updates (like the time I fired up the game and there was a whole new planet in the sky! Wow!). I have confidence that they will address this in a way that builds on what made the Empirion experience unique, fun and addicting.
Well, whether it feels like a chore or not is on the individual player. Like I said, it feels like less of a chore now, to me, personally. For you, it may seem as chore-ish as mowing 50 acres of dry thorns on the side of a hill in the middle of summer, before cleaning the stalls of 100 sick horses. To me, that's why they have Creative mode... in case you don't want to be held back by any arbitrary restrictions, and just want to build and build and blow stuff up and build some more. Or is that not what it's for? I agree that the implementation may be less than smooth, but the idea itself adds a lot for me, personally. YMMV.
I actually don't play Creative Mode because you're not actually doing any Survival at all, the parts are free, no combat, nothing. I agree what one finds a chore is another person's "fun" or just another day. I have not found anything to be a chore in the game before or after, but saying that it seems that when the exact same activity has "points" attached to it, people freaked out. Do I think some form of progression is needed? Sure, but XP really does not seem like the right route to go, because there's more than one way to make a Tech Tree, so there's other options available than resorting to levels.
I also got GRAV in the hopes that it would be a space sandbox explorer experience. I bailed after a few days of pointless bashing random stuff as that was the only way to proceed. No immersion, just pointless mashing. Not exactly a blueprint for adventure. Thats why I found Empyrion so compelling.
...yes....indeed...the steering of the controls/keyboard must be fixed/overworked seriously....but there are some more primary major bugs to fix too....
Well I'm glad we're in agreement then. Hopefully the devs get the message. I got tired of all the vague statements from people saying that's they're able to enjoy the game because they're trying hard enough. Someone even used the word "spoiled". Your post didn't look any different so I'm sorry for unloading on you. Definitely wasn't trying to single anyone out though; would've have called out a lot more people if there wasn't a 10000 character limit. But point taken, I can be less aggressive while expressing myself. I'm not advocating for absolute power at the start. I just want to demonstrate why artificially shackling the constructor is a bad idea. I'm not someone who is interested in creative mode either. My designs don't mean anything if they're not put under pressure. It may very well be true that there should be less starting options in the constructor. I definitely share the desire to be more challenged to survive. But I want you to decouple these ideas from the conclusion that there needs to be pressure from an abstract, artificial source. It's not even close to a viable option when there are many other concrete environmental sources. I said in my previous (shorter) post that sandbox character progression is fine if it's in the appropriate place. So put construction schematics in lootable boxes. Maybe there are some other escape pods that crashed with no survivors so you can find some that aren't guarded. This alone encourages you to take bigger risks earlier on. Once item weight affects character and vehicle mobility that will be a big source of pressure. Maybe animals gang up on you when they're close together so you have to choose your shots more carefully. The point is concrete environmental pressure leads to much more interesting gameplay decisions than from an abstract source.
So this is the core of survival in my opinion. Step by step improvement. Weird. I thought that in the alien stations there is also better gear than u can craft at the start of a new game. So that is also true. So you do realize that a need to do this "busywork" anyway to be able to craft stuff right ? That means more work = more blueprints. I could not agree more. And now you even progress while doing so. That is not good ? Its partially a SURVIVAL game, remember ?
So that would be solved by just adding alien bases and agressive NPCS to creative. Or make it an option to turn on or off if u wanted to build a large structure in peace. Maybe thats the solution. Splitting the game more than it is now. Creative with/without monsters and Survival mode with progression and stuff.
I would love a hostile creative, it is hard to study features in survival (either you have to play few hours to get to the point where you can roam freely everywhere or you have to fiddle with save files)... to compare damage of various weapons or study the loots/ weapons of some alien structure.. survival is not a very good place...
Not exactly. Creative is Cheat mode. I don't want everything handed to me as far as resources go. But, I would like the cookbook. Its just a different approach thats all. Some like to be told what and where to do stuff in a game..(and there are many games that cater to that audience). I was hopeful that this game was different. Can you imagine the possibilities this game had?...people in MP could colonize a sector, and then battle other people and such. Some could (given the option), wall themselves off from interacting with others (SP), and just take on the AI/NPCs. Some could use Creative mode to build massive structures to their hearts content. Some could use Survival mode to do BOTH...on and on and on... This jogging in place to earn XP/achievements/levels whatever, is just not needed in this game. If on the other hand this game is catering to the COD/GTA fan-base than it will fit perfectly...maybe we could even play Candy Crush on the constructor! *Yes, I understand that the levels are basically walking you through the first steps of the game...ON RAILS...so, no going off script and doing anything imaginative. Its just such an unnecessary restriction. I learned what you could do and what you could/should not do in the beginning in under 2 hours. AND THAT WAS THE FUN! This hand-holding, restricting, game on rails system, is just SOOO unnecessary. I dread thinking of the MANY ways they can restrict our imagination in the future...I mean we have people practically begging to be shot in the foot! "Hey, hey, ...why don't you make us all start out blind...for the first hour?...THAT would make it challenging and "Harder" for those of us into pain!". (Face-palm!) I used to LOVE using the random seed generator to challenge myself. Now, its suicidal at worst and dumb at best. If they would have just fixed the bugs in the previous version...even with only 4 planets, I would STILL have played it for hundreds of hours. Now, I'm starting to get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when I look at the date, and assume another update is coming down the pipe.
It is not a past tense as the system is not final yet...and why you attached to the idea of the lvling?? I have seen no one said that lvl is a good addition.. everyone said a progression process is needed and have many good suggestions about that....no one just blindly bashing a very crude, simple process devs implemented... I would love to know what is the devs idea for the progression process in future, and hope they did not stick with this system , but I (and many other )suggested what we want.. not just ****-talking (can't find any other suitable and less offensive word in my limited English vocabulary,SORRY) about the system.. from what I gather from the posts of yours.. you just want to mine ores , build things and kill NPCs... what is worth of exploration of a galaxy full of planets if I can't find anything new which can improve my gameplay... but you want every items handed to you from the beginning.. you don't want to explore, fight , kill or be killed for a new item....I don't know what to make of it...
For f*** sake. Then we are going to implement dificulty settings. Easy means all recepies max level, no hunger, still you have to find the resources and mine them. Normal means as is right now. And creative as is. I am realy sick of this conversation. One says it is to easy, others say it is to hard, again others say it sucks (for those: GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE THEN !!). You canot make everybody happy. Life is no ponyride you know ? And for those who just want a sandbox game they should try far cry 2 map editor.
