He is essentially right about Minecraft XP. It's a currency for enchantments, not a classical leveling system. A system as you describe it here could easily turn into a numbers game, where you gain a new weapon to fight a new enemy but really, only the numbers change and the game remains the same. Level one you fight enemies with 100 hp with a 10 damage weapon; Level one-hundred you fight enemies with 100.000 hp with a 10.000 damage weapon. Tier systems like that wouldn't enhance the game. There is no reason to have more than a couple of versions of the same weapon that are strictly better than the previous version - mostly for giving the player cheap, early game options. Beyond that, the increased difficulty should come from limiting the player's options with additional technology allowing the player to overcome these limits. Like an advanced suit that reduces your oxygen consumption and is resistant to lava, or EMP weaponry allowing you to disable turrets quickly. This ties back to the tech tree. Currently, it's working fine as an early game way to structure progression, but it starts to break down beyond level 7. At that point you have figured out how things work and the requirement to level before you can do what you want to do next becomes a grind. The techtree should change beyond the early levels into different branches which are all equally accessible. So if I decide I want automated crafting first, I can do it instead of grinding to lvl 12 first.
I would agree, except that said enchantments greatly alter the play of the game, efficiency of tools, and power of the player via armor and weapon enhancements. By your argument, XP is always a currency for power, so it's really a null argument.
Minecraft XP is a currency for a chance of power/enhancements that's temporary. It is not at all like how XP is currently used to gate access to blocks in Empyrion. The only thing in common is the word XP. I don't have much to add since I'm of the camp that thinks/prefers that blocks should be unlocked via research/reverse-engineering and material dependency. There is no explicit XP gating in such a system. There have been many posts on how to approach this system already. My personal preference is that the character starts out with nothing but the bare necessities (or customizable starting conditions), the character's wits and yours to survive and deal with a hostile/foreign environment. In Starbound, there is a multi-tool that can be upgraded overtime; in Empyrion you have three tools that should be merged into one, whose functionality should be context and keybind indicated. The recent introduction of the survival constructor is a step in the right direction, but it needs to be a block that can be picked-up, like a survival stove for a camping trip. Initially, the goal is to get situated through any means necessary. This can be accomplished by squatting on an alien structure, finding the crashed Titan to live in, building a small base, or wandering around homeless and vagrant, surviving on edible plants, which is only possible indefinitely on Akua. The blocks for building the initial base should already be known to the character. The base should be bare, no decorations blocks, which are materially gated under plastics and a better constructor, and no BA constructor, but instead a research block and a reverse-engineering block. Both of these block come equipped with its own solar power source and can function at a reduced efficiency/rate without a base power generator. Up till now, the player will still be reliant on the survival constructor to build things. How one proceeds further is up to them as from now on, access to different block is a matter of research and reverse-engineering. When a player raid some alien structure and deconstruct the functional blocks, if the block is not known then such block will drop scraps that can either be researched or reverse-engineered to remake such block. This means that that certain special alien structures are a boon for advancement and may have special blocks that can be combined with the initial base blocks for improvements to its material/durability characteristics. The same can be said for the players' suit. Perhaps those Crohguns are wearing some nifty gadgets that might be useful afterall.
You don't read things before replying, do you? http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Experience Very clearly it's not experience or levels as seen in other games like Empyrion. I'd quote the relevant section for you but....
IMO there are also problems earlier on. I've been following the game for a while and bought it some time ago but haven't had a chance to play until recently. So my experience of Empyrion was with this system. I started on Omicron and ran out of oxygen in the middle of the first drone attack on my base, trying to find the oxygen station. You can build an oxygen tank without unlocking anything but not the oxygen station. I now know where it is and mindlessly grind xp - picking every plant in sight - to hit level 3 before starting a base to avoid that. Same goes for when I start on Akua and take over a station for a base. I start the game mindlessly picking every plant to have enough xp to hit level 3 so I can make a remove and repair tool. If I ate all the plant fiber I typically have in my pockets because of this progression system, I could eat and poop a whole T-Rex without breaking a sweat. Given the limited unlock points I also suspect even more players skip making a HV now. Apart from the problems with HVs, if you spend points unlocking the HV that slows you down unlocking other things which are typically more useful.
Well, I think HV would get more use if there is an advantage to have one. The fact that the HV constructor has a reduced blueprint instruction make the HV not viable as a mobile base. Personally, I prefer to be more mobile than static during the early stage of survival. There is clear advantage to be mobile, especially when it comes to avoiding the drone attacks. I can envision a scenario where your crash landing on the planet has set off alarms for some planetary defense network. The result being a relentless hunt for your biosignature by drones dispatched from the drone station. You are a biological hazard and foreign to the biosphere of the planet and must be exterminated. Clearly, making a base to hold your ground might not be the best approach, but nevertheless open as an alternative mode of play.
I've only experienced the drone attacks recently, but they are incredibly weaksauce. One lone turret - the most basic one in the tech tree - can handle them without assistance. They're a great source of loot. I wouldn't want to avoid them. I'd like them to attack more often. I actively looked for a seed where I could build a base near a drone protected POI just to have easier access to them. The only danger in drone attacks is if you join in. Because then they'll fire at you and when they miss, will hit stuff near you which can damage your base. So just step away from your base while defending it.
The drones don't pose much danger at the moment because the devs have set them that way (imagine the amount of outcry if they were mean little beasties). A small change to their armor resistance and a boost to their numbers can immediately turn them into something else altogether. Notice that the turrets currently also do not run out of ammo. When they do and need ammo to fire, you can see that having a static base will pose certain tactical as well as logistical challenges. If one is not really ready for them, then being mobile might be a better way to survive.
>Says Minecraft doesn't have XP >Contradicts self by saying it does have XP >Says I don't read before I post. Cool story troll, I'll give it 3/10 because I responded, and toss you in the iggy bin.
So sad.... I said Minecraft doesn't have an abstract numeric progression system and it doesn't. It has something it calls xp but it isn't anything like what xp is in Empyrion or other games. Others have tried to make this point for you as well but you're not interested. The fact remains, both Minecraft and Space Engineers are incredibly popular games without this controversial feature Empyrion has added. And that's a big part of their appeal.
I'm dreadfully unimaginative in some respects. I deal with what's there. What's there right now isn't a threat. If that changes I'll adapt to suit. I've discovered one can inhabit the epsilon factory POI without needing to replace its core. It has a constructor you can use free of energy cost and it being an enemy installation drones don't attack it. I've also dug out a room underneath to add things like a food processor and left the power on to see if it attracts drone attacks. It doesn't. Depending on its location (i.e. varies by seed) it can be very easy to move into even right at the beginning of a new game. Don't even need to set up the survival constructor.
When I mine a bunch of stone, redstone, and iron, and collect a bunch of wool, which I use to build a giant farm, to collect chests full of bones, which I use to speed-farm crops, that I can trade with a farmer for emeralds, and then trade the emeralds with a cleric for bottles o enchanting, which I smash on the floor to get XP, which I use to enchant a helmet that lets me breathe underwater, that's not abstract at all.
Well that's a heck of a lot more complicated than I remember Minecraft being :| I had plenty of fun with the game before the silly villages and XP system and whatnot.
Yes, but you don't need to do that at all if you don't want to. Besides, there are potions that you can take that would grant the same effect, albeit temporarily. The XP in Minecraft is not something that you must have to get on to build things or do things. Another difference is that XP there is a commodity that can be bought, and stored through mods, and is mainly a currency to gamble some nice additive/temporary effects on tools, weapons, and armor, which are perfectly fine without. It's an aspect of the game that can be ignored if you want to. Finally, the XP stuff was a rather late feature during the beta release. Indeed, there are numerous mods that trivialize the Minecraft XP, so its implementation and abstraction isn't the best either. Not to mention, character level in Minecraft is has no effect on game play whatsoever and simply an indication of how much experience has been gained for min/maxing.
I agree that you shouldn't have to get any XP in order to be able to do whatever is needed to survive. I hate the current XP -> unlock tech system as well. But you actually can survive just fine in Empyrion without leveling up, you just can't do "everything that's possible in the game" and you cannot acquire/build the luxuries like easy transportation, easy food supply, easy home defense, etc. But you can certainly run around Akua and survive indefinitely without ever having acquired any XP, and you do not need to build a ship or a hovercraft or a laser rifle in order to continue playing the game. Do you have to get XP in minecraft to get everything? Well you actually have to do things that generate XP, such as mining and smelting ores. And as much as the current system sucks in Empyrion, you pretty much cannot avoid getting XP by doing the things you need to survive anyway. BTW regarding Minecraft it also has a bunch of enchants that modify the bows and swords. Between them there are about 600 types of swords, and 72 types of bows. Someone else here kept claiming to be an expert on games and couldn't imagine why anyone would need ten different guns in a game. Expert indeed. Another example of variety is Skyrim which also has about 600 combinations of bows and arrows. IMO it would be great to have this sort of variety in Empyrion (really don't think it would be fun to use the same pulse rifle every day for 6 months without ever upgrading it, and the same amount of variety could be had in stuff like thrusters and constructors) but the question is how to make it so players cannot simply start out the game with all the top end stuff. And using ores to do this would end up with thousands of minerals.
You ever played Ghost Recon? It had very nice gun customization. Something to that effect could be implemented in this game where the Croghuns drop guns that can be disassembled for some rare parts that can be modified into some slots in our guns.
Sorry Muffin, but mods trivializing a game mechanic isn't a very good argument against it. Hell, mods and cheatcodes have been trivializing enemies and game economies for decades.
Perhaps, but that alone doesn't make the rest bad argument either. Of course, it is perfectly fine to disagree.
It is if the game mechanic sucks. Case in point... Bethesda's original decision with Skyrim to introduce a perk system with limited points, which fundamentally undermined the completely open character development skill systems of previous games, was quite controversial. But given the moddability of those games, fans complained but when ignored just modded that mistake away. So many players modded that mistake away that Bethesda eventually effectively did away with it themselves by both allowing respecs and removing the point cap. I've definitely been enjoying Empyrion more since stumbling upon the hex edit solution to remove the tech tree (by insta unlocking everything), which the devs provided.
The experience system encourages multiplayer crimes. I do not know if it's really founded, but alot of trolls justify [on chat] murders to gain experience faster and produce better weapons. However, this system dramatically destroys creativity. We become farmers to learn how to design more attractive blocks .. What would be better would be that the experience changes the amount and quality of productions [in terms of harvest or objects resistance points etc etc]
