I don't like the tech tree being in there. If you have the resources and the equipment, you should be able to make it without putzing through a tech tree unlocking stuff worrying that I might not be able to unlock something else later because Of what I unlock now and hitting some points cap.
Tech trees don't have to be a progression limiter if done right it can give positive advantages and benifits. I agree the current inseption of the tech tree and exp system are down right terrible. I do feel however that a properly developed tech tree can add to the survival experience. Not being able to get every thing strives to keep survival more in the foreground. I'd prefer a diverse world Vs every ones a clone.
Progression comes from tech building tech. Learning how to use a machine that can turn raw resources in to advanced space craft by plucking plants and shooting the wild life is down right stupid.
So what you're saying is that you agree with what pretty much all of us have said here, including the people you think you are disagreeing with.
Current system is fine for the future, a longer tech tree making reaching CV and SV more difficult. HV is a great vehicle if used correctly, but people can just jump over it for the SV, why bother? I'd think as the game seems focused on survival, a longer tech tree that is more difficult to advance would make the playability of the early period better. Too fast, I'd also say cockpits for HV and SV should be separated. HV has a LOT of potential uses (utility vehicle, possible walker type etc) that it would benefit from as being separate. Ditto to above More combat improvements added to the back end of the tree. Armor, heavy armor, etc.
I agree. Part of what people seem to be overlooking is that this is Pre-Alpha. I doubt we'll only have 20 levels you can run through in a few hours of play for more than a few more updates.
I can't think of any reason how mining ore or collecting plants could lead to any high tech knowledge (as do most here, it seems). So I think, the knowledge to build an initial base, a hover vessel and a small vessel with basic weapons should be available from the beginning. Operating machinery (building base or vessels, crafting, flying around with vessels) should give the XP to learn how to craft more advanced machines. There might be a completely different approach to learn things: learning by doing. Example: you have to build at least two gatling guns for your base or your vessel and at least have to repair them three times to get the knowledge to build a rocket launcher. Something like this. Just my two cent
Wall of text incoming, TL;DR at bottom. My opinion on the tech tree right now is that it isn't good. I understand this is a pre-alpha and that things are bound to change, but I would at least like the option to disable it for now. I can't speak for everyone here, but when I play Empyrion I'm looking to play a survival game where I can build things and have fun experiences and get away from the monotonous grinding of MMOs. Adding monotonous grinding to Empyrion makes the game look far less attractive in my eyes. I suggest changes to the tech tree so that you get experience and points not by mining and picking up plants but experience in different fields depending on what you're doing. To clarify, I'm saying you should get weapons experience by using a weapon - shooting it or swinging it and killing things with it. That allows you to see what needs to be improved to make the weapon better, giving the character insight into a new design or improved schematic. Constructing and placing blocks should give experience towards better-armored or differently-designed blocks, because the more you work with metal and the materials used and the more you construct the items and see their structural weaknesses, the more you can improve upon them. All of the unlockable levels and designs should also be obtainable just by playing the game and there should be no or minimal grinding involved. I don't want to make any judgements on the tech tree point cap because I haven't done too much playing recently and I can only act on what I've heard, but what I will say is this: So far, it sounds like you can't get everything in the tree as one person. That would be perfectly okay if the stuff you couldn't get was balanced out by the stuff you could get if you invested your points elsewhere, but from what I hear hovercraft are effectively useless in comparison to small vessels. If that's true and a newer player invests points into hovercraft and then later on isn't able to acquire the points to get something they need for a CV or SV or base, then the single-player experience is severely limited in my opinion because the player, after having spent points on something that looked like it might be worth investing in but in reality is not and with the absence of the option to undo their decision, has effectively screwed themselves out of progressing forward. I suggest that the only one-time choices offered in the tech tree be things like researching high-torque low-speed engines vs low-torque high-speed engines or maybe a railgun that fires faster but does less damage vs a plasma cannon that fires slower but does more damage and that everything else should be unlockable. Now, before you flame me for being incorrect, I'm making the last couple of suggestions and criticisms based upon what I have heard. The tech tree may not be that bad in regards to the point cap. Just read something that nullifies that whole half of my post, but I feel like it would be cool to have choices like those I mentioned - between balanced but different items. TL;DR: Must grind to get more levels. Don't like grinding in my survival games. Exp should be given based off what you are doing. Might be cool to have choices between two differently-styled but balanced items, for example high ROF with low damage vs. low ROF with high damage. Everything should be able to be unlocked by just playing the game with no or minimal grinding involved. Just my opinion on the matter.
My thoughts on the experience system... Experience should reflect what you are doing. So if you are shooting a projectile pistol, your skill with that weapon type should increase. There should be a certain amount of experience to go up a skill level, with each skill level increasing your ability bonus for that skill. Weapon Skills: +x% damage per level --> Projectile Pistol, Shotgun, Sniper Rifle, Assault Rifle, Rocket Launcher, Laser Pistol, Laser Rifle, Pulse Rifle Harvesting Skills: +x% yield per level --> Mining, Farming, Hunting Industry Skills: -x% time per level --> Construction, Refining, Food Processing Science Skills: +x% chance of success per level --> Research Blueprints, Reverse Engineering Piloting: -x% fuel use per level --> Hover Vessel, Small Vessel, Capital Vessel Turrets: +x% damage per level --> HV Turrets, SV Turrets, CV Turrets I think these could be good skills to start off with....
As for the Tech Trees, I don't like the way it progresses at all. Progression should be a function of research, or reverse engineering, not some arbitrary advancement because you picked enough plants... You would start off with basic knowledge of the lowest level items (basic blocks, pistol, ammo, food)...then you would either have to learn via research (you use up items that are similar to fuel your research, or are used int its construction...i.e. an advanced block would require basic blocks to be used up to have a chance of successfully unlocking the new type of block)or destructively reverse engineer an item to learn how to make it (every item you reverse engineer, gives you a +% chance to discover that item's blueprint...so if you found a T2 sniper rifle, the first time you tried to reverse engineer it, you would have like maybe 30% chance to discover how to make it...the next one you reverse engineered, you would have maybe 50% chance...and the result of each attempt would be randomly determined to see if you discovered how to make it, taking any skill bonuses into account).
If player should have to unlock items, I think hijacking tech from aliens would be more plausible. I don't think it makes sense that the tech haven't already been researched and saved to the survival constructor prior to the crash down of the escape pod. I recognize the need for skill progression, but the skill tree appeals to a character who doesn't know anything about survival. Not in this sci-fi setting where I think it would be highly likely that the character knows a lot about space tech because of the very fact that he was on a space ship, fled in an escape pod and has a hi-tech spacesuit.
I think someone serving as a Captain of a Capital Vessel may or may not have ANY survival skills to start with. Captains give orders that are to be followed without question....they don't harvest or cook the food, nor do they do the repairs on ships systems. Some MIGHT conceivably know those kinds of things, but I think the only thing I could say for sure, that he had some kind of CV captaining skills...although, since it crashed, he might not have had very much
By definition, a survival constructor would know how to produce the items necessary for survival, not flourishing. So, a gun, ammo, oxygen, basic tools, charges, basic building blocks, food & small med packs/antidotes, and a small constructor. You make a lot of assumptions otherwise. Game setup could account for starting tech and skill levels as options to the single player game and dedicated server setup yaml.
What I mean is. If we abandon the XP based tech tree unlocking and the technology was meant to be researched, the process of research must end with some data that allows you to construct new items. But I don't think it makes sense that data wasn't already stored in the survival constructor or that the data would have to be researched again, since the faction from where the player origins already has researched the technology given the fact that he crash landed. It's not that I don't want the survival constructor to be simple. It's more that it doesn't make sense that it is. It would make sense to say that the survival constructor due to pshysical limitations is not capable of constructing large items. That would make sense, but we'd still fall short on why we would have to unlock skills. In short. I think researching tech makes just as little sense as unlocking it with points achieved from leveling up.
i think the techtree xp upgrade thing is ok. Maybe all the stuff should be unlocked at a station... like browsing throw the tech and unlocking it with your xp. As said above all the tech you can unlock has allready been researched. I would say with your xp gained you just learn to understand how the tech works and you don't have to research it from the beginning. And gaining xp from plants... why not? Its not as easy as you think to grow plants (especially when you come from a high-tech world). So with everything you do (mining, building, harvesting....) you learn a little bit more of different techniques. I hope you can understand what i mean (english is not my native language).
The Issue with the exp is picking a plant attributes to learning how to use a oxygen generator. It seems disjointed. Picking a plant seams more in line with learning how to harvest better or plant/transplant/grow them elsewhere. So in the future world we are doing things to expand our grey matter(EXP) then we go to some machine and exchange that knowledge for new knowledge (Jonny Neumonic Data Wipe / Matrix Skill Upload) and our level = skill security lockout
Maybe you should only get xp from harvesting plants that you have made and not the ones in nature because growing them in your base or CV is much difficulter than just taking from nature (having the lightsorce, the right earth....) That would make it a bit more logical... Maybe....
Just a question for your consideration and because of my very personal interest: how about having XP unlock and unlock via research side-by-side, so everyone can follow the path he wants (or even go cross-roads now an then)?
I view XP and RP to be for different purposes My Personal View Point CP (Creation Points) is used for personal Skills/Perks/Traits/Flaws/ at character creation RP (Research Points) is used to unlock Augmentation Blocks, Laser Amplifier Weapon Add-On Equipment , Recoil Suppressor New Skills, Anatomy(Xenu) New Skill, Drone Combat Not Basic technologyFP (Faction Points) used to unlock faction specific benefits XP (Experience Points) Hidden effects player internal skills not visible bound by the action done. Or Bound to Skill Categories, Soldier/Engineer/Colonist in which point can be allocated to skills Picking Fruit increase the availability of spawn points. i.e. 2 players look at a plant the higher skill player can sees it as ready to pickPicking Medicinal plants increases the availability of spawn points using a weapon increase the recoil recovery of that weapon using a weapon reduce the reload time of that weapon using a weapon to inflict critical increase critical damage (character knowledge of vital points increase) using a tool reduce ammo use over time (more efficient with tool To be more annoying internal skill could atrophied from non use (only when logged in)
