Yeah I've been thinking that as well. If we must have a tech tree, at least get rid of the levels. We can unlock the tech tree in other ways such as research or a device to copy blocks you find in the world. Possibly a hand scanner.
Gates and pacing are key concepts. You want to have a gate to pass thru to gain something, but you want to make it so that it feels worth the effort, and the fact it takes time, gives all us gamer the dopamine hit we're all looking for. I mean, really what are games except hormone dispensers in electronic format. So, how much of the drug is our brain going to administer, and is it enough, based on the time and effort we put in. The mechanic is really irrelevant. We're just looking for our fix. It can be levels, it can be time based research, it can be hand scanning, it can be finding alien parts, and research pages. At the end... It's all about the HIT of brain candy, where we feel we DID IT! (In our virtual world.) So, it just has to feel right to be "fun" aka, trigger our reward center. I think the delivery method is irrelevant, it's fun if the gate and pace are adequate. It's not fun, if we don't get the hit. So, just set nobs, and let people determine the rate, speed, and difficulty, so each player can maximize enjoyment. Everyone knows that primate HATE loss, more than anything. So that is the other driver. If there is too much loss of work, like PVP, or lost bodies, lost effort, people HATE that, they hate it a lot. So keep our rewards, and pace them, and make sure the gates aren't too far apart. It will be fine. Blueprints do a good job of minimizing the loss of a good design. Lack of XP loss, keeps your progress in the skill trees. The one thing we're risking right now is rare finds. You have that T5 uber epic item. Well don't lose it! I agree that just killing monsters to learn how to make a big engine is kinda disconnected. But the result is the same... Input effort, output result, get our reward.
You are right only that part of the kick we get is this virtual reality. When you do stuff like this that breaks the sense of immersion, it takes you out of that experience in general.
I get that. It's just that levels have no real meaning. They're sequential numbers. Finding items you want to build is also a progression that is more organic, more of a rush when you find a t2 rcs to reverse engineer and upgrade your ship with. Levels are like bellbottom jeans, out of style heh.
As it is right now...i dont really like the way we leveling/unlock stuff. Things i am about to say are i am sure people said already so dont shoot me about it pleeeeeeeeeease I dont see any reason why spamming corndog gathering can help me build a warp core !!!!! Guess thats why Einstein could never build one,he never gathered enough corndogs lol My thought is something like that: Keep the leveling as it is with two major differences A) The current one shows only the level REQUIRED to use any of the stuff in it, NOT to unlock it B) I can gain 2-5 points per level to raise my stats (health,stamina or whatevere) so i can be more resilient as the game involvs around me (which will be the main reason of ''WHY'' i should level up.I dont like pew pew much,i am more into mining,so i could use my points to raise my stamina more so i can stay out in the field for longer and do more mining (stamina will drop faster for me though since mining is hard job doing) Someone who likes pew pew though would like more points to his health so he can take more hits before going to Valhalla,St Peter,Hades or wherever lol ....see my point there??? Geeeeeez i hops so cause my English sucks when it comes to explaining !!!!! When it comes to ''unclocking'' our stuff: We start with the basics (more or less with what we have at tier 1 one,but the whole thing needs adjustments) To be able to build something from level 5 (as we see the levels today) FIRST i have to build/use the item in level 4 ''x'' times Example: To USE an Advanced Constructor i should be (lets say) level 7 BUT TO build one firstly i have to build a simple constructor and construct 5000 items with it (easy considering how we spam steel plates and energy packs) To USE a gardening plot a can be level 3 but to BUILD one i have to harvest lest say 500 plants first This way it could make sense to me of WHY i can eventually i am able to build a warp core cause i learn in the process by using/constructing everything else in between and by doing so i gained even more point to add to myself and use them freely Did i made any sense at all????? Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.....
your English is fine. I understood your points. I fully disagree though. It is not your experience that allows you to build things in this game. It is an advanced, futuristic, 3D printer called "Constructor" The constructor learns through programs and hardware that is installed. An advanced constructor, for example, probably has improved hardware that allows you to make the more advanced things. Therefore the only scenario which makes sense in this game is research points or unlocking things with scanners or upgrading your constructor with better hardware. Building 5000 things actually would have the opposite effect as it would cause your machinery to need repairs or maintenance. Just some thoughts. Going the imaginary, fairy tale route would ruin this game. The only reason it hasnt ruined it for me yet is because it is alpha and I am willing to forgive and give a pass for the time being. 1: Research points: Obtained through hacking, scanning science loot of some kind, stealing research from POIs etc... Use points to unlock new technology as you want it. 2: Scanners: You find it, you scan it, you unlock it. The player is rewarded with new technology through a dice role but the core essentials are already unlocked for you. 3: Upgrading Hardware: Installing upgrades for your constructor will unlock new technology. Similar to your average RTS, when you build certain upgrades for your constructor you are able to unlock new technologies. This feature would work as the original Empyrion worked. You lock technology behind resource cost and hardware obtained. In order to make something advanced you would need to find the rare resources needed to upgrade your constructor and thus advance your technology tree. Which one of these options do I want to personally see? Actually would like to see a combination of all three. But if I had to choose only one, then it would be the 3rd option.
This type of bonus is terrible in a open world PvP system. It makes the power gap between levels extream. The difference between a new soldier and a vetran has very little to do with physical attributes. Experience is represented in his skills. His tech is what gives him a physical advantage armor/weapons/utility gear. Please no I hate arbitrary grind feast. This is just bad. You learn new tech by reasearch, corporate theft, or purchasing it from some one else.
I am not so sure if scanners could work well in this matter Yeah,definitely sounds good to me but what IF i don't cross eyes on something? I won't be able to build it at all !!!!!!! I would go for it as long as i could have an alternative....a combination as you said. For example i don't remember eeeeeeeeever seeing it looting a 2x2 hover engine. Means that alone with the scanner i couldn't lay hands on that. I didn't meant to gain 100 health points with every point distributed. 10 per point would be ok. That's 250 points in all which wouldn't make such an impact,something like that. Not to the point to unbalance the game but enough to make a small difference towards that attribute you're aiming (As a "soldier" you would have let's say 250-500 health points more than me when i would have 250-500 more stamina/endurance than you) I don't think such values are game breaking in a 25 levels gap. Was just a thought though hehehe Cause i have no way to explain to my still functional brain cells of how a warp core is related to corn dogs and tomatoes lol
Neither do I but as I said core technologies are already in the constructor they are locked via resource requirements and don't need to be unlocked. Research is for non core enhancements. For example different size/Shape warp cores
How about NO. This isn't World of Warcraft. We don't need skills. Tech trees are great! Leave it alone.
Can you explain what aspect of skills you don't like? A statement with out a reason why is pretty useless .
In your opinion, that's useless because it doesn't agree with your opinion. Why make the game more complicated? What makes it fun and beautiful is it's simplicity. You, and others like you, want to complicate the game, put in things we don't need and then start screaming for "balance". Am I right? That's usually how good games start going downhill, fast. Played Wow for over 12 years from BETA and left when it got ridiculously complicated. It takes the FUN out of it.
I never played WoW so I have no idea where your coming from. This is a survival game. Skill are quite common in survival games. Your comparing a "Skill" to a "Game" is like comparing a "Seat" to a "Car" Skills/Perks/Advantages/Specializations/Certs need not be complicated they can be as simple as a buff, you have x skill you gain y benefit. No leveling, No grinding, No skill/activation triggering Lastly keep the thread about the its content. You know nothing about me except what I have posted. All I know about you is that you joined the forums yesterday.
I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you. You attacked my opinion and I responded. No reason to be rude.
No one attacked your opinion, it's the other way around. Just relax and welcome... Why come on a discussion board of you are not willing to discuss? You sound very toxic just breath and relax. I do agree with you that we dont need a leveling/experience skill tree. The tech tree could be alright if implemented in a way that made more sense but it currently is not that way.
I will give you guys my reason to not want a leveling/experience/skill tree. 1- Balance..... playing more = being stronger not because you are better, only because your character has more health and skills than mine. Equipment and assets can cause a similar imbalance but the person with the equipment and the assets has the most to lose. There is a sort of natural balance which makes sense. But with a skill tree, that balance is completely gone and combat would break immersion. You have to shoot someone 20 times instead of 5. I was looking forward to a more realistic type of tactical combat in this game that aligns with realistic survival. Realism in the sense of science fiction. Having levels and skills would take the game in a direction that I do not want to see. 2- It becomes an additional layer of grind. Grinding levels is something that might be fun in some games but trying to mingle that into this game doesnt seem to fit, nor does the game even need it. It already has a grind tree and a progress tree that is natural and not artificial through gathering and acquiring assets and building up your ships and bases. Additional thoughts: I hear people wanting their character slowly becoming a better miner so that they can mine faster the more they do the task. That is the whole point of higher tech mining equipment. As you acquiring more assets you are able to produce better things that will speed up your mining game. The same goes with all other game play elements. That is the direction this game seems to have gone since the beginning. Now we seem to want to experiment with skill trees and I think it will be a big mistake. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
I disagree with this to some point Its true if skill give huge advantages such as more hit point, more damage, or more ammo that they are going to be game breaking. Greater ammo is a tech tree upgrade, aka extended Clip (more ammo, less in a stack) Greater damage is a tech tree upgrade, aka heavy rounds (more damage, less range) Greater HP is a fallacy, Better Armor is again a tech tree upgrade (Reduce damage, reduced speed) All of these give benefit, disadvantages and cost additional resources. As for Skill i'm talking more of a unlock system or limited boosts. Any person can pick up a gun and point it, so basic weapon skill are not need. The weapons are already resource locked and the constructor can already make them A skill in Weapon Proficiency energy rifle. May give me better knowledge of how to use an energy rifle allowing me to reload faster. Its true that I may be able to do more damage in a stand up slug fest but if my opposition dodges or hides that advantage is lost. This skill can work just like the tech tree unlock system. You still need to aim and hit as you did before A skill in Weapon Maintenance energy rifle, may let me keep my weapon in good repair slowing its degradation but in combat this does nothing. This skill can work just like the tech tree unlock system. A tech tree researched skill this skill is unlocked after tech research is complete. Anatomy Xenu, This gives a slightly better critical hit box but it still requires you to manually aim and hit your target. The main difference here is XP is used for personal unlocks. This has no more grind than the existing system. The only issue i have is how to generate this generic XP Things like picking flowers would still be stupid. Perhaps something like Ark where XP slowly generates over time representing a general increase in knowledge giving skill point. no levels. Another option would be You gain X skill points at character creation and that it. No Levels, no Grind and no XP. just a form of character individualization. What i don't want is a you need to grind a skill to unlock it.
In a non-combat PVP game... Levels, typically give you power against the monsters you fight. In a combat PVP game... Typically levels give you cosmetic things... In a game where progression is 'technology' and the ability to build things... Levels typically give you better buildings, with better ratios. (Resource to HP, or Product vs Time.) In a PVP game, where you focus on PVP, you have to gate combat between levels, or you get instant gibs. So prevent PVP till max level, or something else like that. It's perfectly reasonable to have 3 different XP systems, that all grant bonuses in their respective "trees".
The only problem i see with a multi XP system is that its complicated and we have mixed PvP/PvE systems
