I like the idea of the tech tree. I do agree that maybe using the XP to just unlock builds might not be the way to go. Maybe a research tree, that requires use of some of the Deco lab items. Still it's a step in the right direction.
We are talking about improving your character because that is what a character leveling system should improve, unless your trying to say using your CHARACTER to perform actions that give you xp so your CHARACTER can gain levels is not a CHARACTER progression system. the current system of "I killed a dinosaur with a pistol, now I know how to build a flashlight" is just a bad game mechanic that makes no sense. taking a missile to the head and living sounds more like a balance issue than an issue with improving character stats, besides wouldn't a longer lasting food or stamina bar be useful? As far as NEEDING vehicles, leaving a planet, storing large amounts of food from a hunting trip, flying further than a few hundred feet, a place to keep your food from spoiling while you are out exploring, all sound like mechanics that are currently in place to make you NEED a vehicle that will be completely unaffected by your max health, food, or stamina stats, and I never said anything about classes just perks/skills that improve your character.
U totally misunderstood me there. What u mean are basically skills of ur character. I get that. I just think the character itself should be made a little weaker and also the npcs damage. so that u dont die when get biten once. But improving the character itself would be dumb as far as the stats are concerned. I absolutely do not mind improving his skills.
That will probably happen. Once we have the ability to improve the character's health and armor. Doing it beforehand would be cruel. The advanced drones and interior turrets can really rip a player up, regardless of taking a rocket to the head or not. It's about DPS, not alpha damage.
Ok the "Tech Tree" system is easily the worst game-ruining update that I have ever seen. And I've experienced SEVERAL F2P updates that blatantly punished the playerbase for not using the cash shop. If you want a quick summary of how I feel about this here it is: the day before the update I played a marathon session with my friends starting from scratch. I finished that session wishing that we didn't have to go to sleep and was looking forward to hosting a dedicated server for this game. The day after the update not only was I instantly compelled to make an account so I can post this lengthy rant, it now one of my life goals to publish negative reviews of this game if it released with this system intact and it would be my first time writing a review for any game. To properly express how terrible this system is, I'll give you some background. My friends and I migrated to this game from a certain zombie sandbox game. My main selling point for this game was the fact that despite having a failed kickstarter campaign, it was a far superior product to the zombie game which met all of its kickstarter stretch goals. I can no longer say this is the case. Why? Because it is now using the same system to force mundane repetitive tasks in order unlock recipes which made crafting unfun. Except at least it actually made sense in that game because: you crafted things with your bare hands the tools you use can break so it's reasonable to keep making them you are surrounded by things to loot so in theory you can forego crafting you can punch things to death if you needed to None of these things are true for this game. How do you even explain why experience unlocks constructor functionality? The escape pod's constructor can create a more advanced version of itself that is ten times bigger. Not even Star Trek replicators can do that. Any user interaction with such a device would not be more complicated than pressing buttons. So I guess my character suffered such a specific brain injury in the crash that made them forget how press buttons on a computer but they still remember how to operate an advanced space suit, with a jet pack, that lets them run at superhuman speed. Even if you could convince me that operating the constructor requires engineering skills, then how exactly does pulling plants or shooting a laser gun at the ground develop those skills? What does this system offer in gameplay? Simplifying the burden of choice in the early game? Nope. It even fails to do that by introducing a much more complicated decision tree; not only do you need to be gaining experience faster than you can starve, but you need to think about what to unlock and when to do so. The decision tree is even evil enough to include many false choices. You can spend points to unlock the hydrogen generator without unlocking the large constructor with no indication that it can't be built in the small constructor. This is not even an interesting puzzle to solve. It only took me 5 minutes to figure out that I can directly convert my drill charges into 1500 experience each by firing into surface level ground. You would think finding deposits and actually mining would be more efficient but you would be wrong. Traveling to a node risks running into hostiles and once you get there some times you don't even get experience if you're too deep underground and you need to plan an exit route. Why bother with that when you can find a mountain to demolish for a guaranteed amount of experience? I easily reached level 7 with this method by only using 2 unlock points and I never had to risk dying. The experience grind was completely trivial after I built a HV with a gun. My friends, however, are not like me and they don't care about finding the shortest path to get what I want. They just want to play the game. I haven't been to space yet because I needed to spend my time teaching people how to: download a third party tool so we can play together in the first place use short term memory to create more effective constructor queues use undocumented input shortcuts that I discovered And I was more than happy to do all those things because it made the game more fun to play. This new system does anything but that. I haven't even started to describe how it affects co-op dynamics. Before the update when you started as a group, it was your choice to complete the same goal together or to manage multiple goals simultaneously. Now you're FORCED to complete the same goal SEPARATELY. Your teammates are now competition for exp sources. That is absurd. I'm sorry but I don't understand how expecting a team of 4 to lumber around before they can even think of building a base is reasonable. And what if one of my friends joins well after I have an established base? If I want them to actually be able to produce something of value I'll need to spend resources by either letting them build useless things or waste ammo on easy targets. Let's assume that every single one of my issues are resolved. The system is STILL fundamentally flawed. It makes the player spend time chasing artificial experience when they could spending that time gaining PRACTICAL experience exploring game mechanics. Or in other words making decisions that actually matter. The fact that you can starve to death while designing your architecture and managing your resources to actualize it is already an interesting challenge. Who actually asked for the crafting to be more cumbersome? People who found that it was too easy to "beat" this sandbox game? Sorry, but that is not the core audience for this game. Your core audience doesn't need this game to prove their worth to the world by raising their GAMERSCORE. We understand that sandbox game are supposed to played at your own pace and we're too busy actually playing the game to chirp on the forums for more content. But I guess I'll have to chirp if this the "new" content we're getting. A linear progression system has no place in a sandbox. The ultimate goal is to exploit every resource, including other living beings, contained in an entire galaxy for your own purpose. Why would anyone want artificial sub goals along the way? I appreciate the idea of rewarding you for playing the game but this system never ever does that. It instead rewards you for chasing an intangible asset by actually letting you play the game. I actually tried really hard to think if I would feel differently if I never played the game in the previous state and came to the conclusion that I would have refunded within 20 minutes. No one has fun doing complicated math if they're not getting paid to do it. I have a hell of a lot more things but I'm getting bored so TL;DR: Keep the grindwall out of my constructor. Shooting things should make you better at shooting things not building things.
Not sure this is the place for this but it is about the new update. I was mining asteroids and popped into the research station and they had some of the biggest plants I'd ever seen. even though I started a new game after the update the research station did not get notified to replant it's crops it would seem
All I am going to say is the game is Pre-Alpha, the devs are listening so constructive feedback is required to improve the game. Again this is a Pre-Alpha title and EVERYTHING (expect the absolute core of it) is subject to change. So with constructive non threatening(your whole giving the negitive steam reviews is a threat and not cool) feedback will improve this game and could become something truely unique and beloved by many.
- about the curent system I was initially sceptical, Empyrion versions before 3.6 had an almost perfect action/survival game mechanic about it so i felt the new system would be restrictive but having played through a game from scratch of 3.6 i can say i'm loving it. I had started and played through loads of practice runs with the aim of getting a CV built and ready to go in th e shortest time possible(set up base by nightfall on first day, build SV during the night from parts salvaged off the escape pod{get attacked by drones... loved the drones.... free spare parts } and then salvage parts and loot from the 3 crashed CV's on Akua. Now however i have been made to slow my pace and the levelling system has me trying everything.... actually love the new system. Anyway i have a few suggestions - I reckon a "SPECIAL" tab in the tech tree menu which will allow for new templates to be learned, templates found during the players travels etc. During play i noticed that by level 19 i had in excess of 255 unlock points which i didnt need because i had unlocked verything except for the level 20 stuff and all the evel 20 stuff added up to about 140 points to unlock and this before getting however many unlock points i will have on achieving level 20. The "special" tab would include maybe superweapons(imagine a weapon that runs the lenght of a ship costing 150 points to unlock), improved alloys which require unknown ores(the only assurance been that whatever system the player gets the blueprints from will most assuredly spawn aforementioned new ore that is required.) This way all those extra unlock points have a reason to exist i.e. to unlock as yet undiscovered blueprints for new components/weapons et all - as to level progression i'd say its as close to perfect as you can get it at this stage...... but i reckon it's as close to perfect as you can get. It's simple and relatively unintrusive, it inspires the payer to enjoy the game I could probably ramble forever but there it is. I have put a lot of hours into this , playing almost every iteration since version 3 was released(sunk in close to 600 hours in 2 months.... Thanks guys, love the game ) and i've loved very minute of it. Tjis update though truly changed the gameplay and i still loved every moment of it.
a trivial system making this game 'unfun'??? also you make it 'unfun' for yourself...drilling random places for xp??? that is super boring and super easy..more fun is to explore and killing things.. which have risk... you did not wanted to take risk...so you stuck with boring , 'unfun' drilling holes.. absolutely agree with it...I am more for find blueprint, study alien structures for newer stronger material... and the things you do will increase proficiency in that work(like more killing decrease reloading time, more mining yield more ore etc)... and that is what the devs want to know.. how this system is broken..and what you want to fix that not whining about 'this new tech tree ruin the game' and not site any valid reason for that...I like that unlike many, you post exactly why you don't like this system... yes... they have to rethink how it affect multiplayer..
You seem to misunderstand my point. What is unfun is the concept of chasing imaginary points. I don't need my sandbox games giving me homework. I usually start new games by collecting a bunch of plants anyway because I like having an abundance of resources at my disposal. But the mere presence of artificial incentives changed that and I quickly got tired of instantly dropping everything I just picked. So I moved on to mining and found out that my side drilling method stops gaining exp halfway to the node. Gaining 50 exp per ore wasn't enough to hold my interest when I realised that I wouldn't even be able use what I was collecting for 5 levels. So I saw the clear pattern that thinking = no exp so I decided to turn my brain off and showed a mountain who the boss was. That was actually the most fun I had beside building the ship since it was the most direct route to getting to do what I want. So my point for sharing my algorithm of: Get level 2 -> make drill charges -> convert to exp was to show how easily the "challenge" of gaining levels was solved without even need to interact with the skill points. It was not to express my displeasure of having to play safe. The very first thing I did when I started playing was try to see how many things I could kill with the starter ammo before running out. I had a blast learning each creature's patterns and discovering my own limitations. I sure as hell didn't need "fun points" popping up every time I hit something to tell me I was playing the game right.
yes , only topsoil gives xp, not the black part of the soil(stone?) yes it is, lvling system should be passive(in my opinion, which I said many times, so not repeating anymore) LOL.. right now it is necessary so we can easily see how much xp we are getting doing something so we can comment on if / how much rebalencing it need
only once did I want to do something I couldn't atm and that was the very beginning when I wanted to make extra drill charges. other than that I played as I normally would and never had a issues with the Tech. by the time I'd used the starter drill charges I had I could make more, any time I couldn't find some thing in the constructor that I needed after that, all I had to do was open the tech tree and use the points I had already gained. the levels came fast and easy just by playing how I normally do with out bar watching or doing anything to push levels up.
I play with a few other people, and we've not had any issues with XP barring us from doing the same activity. You're working together after all, so if your buddy unlocks something, you don't have to. When clearing out a POI, none of us were concerned about XP going to one person over the other because we're working as a team. Frankly, it still takes less than an hour to get a SV (or even a CV) up and going without even gaming the XP system. That is both with and without a group.
So are you saying that the tech-tree it is pointless? I'm pretty sure you aren't, but as you can probably deduce from your own words..it is a meaningless mechanic. I've maxed it out myself, and hardly noticed the thing,(except at the beginning, with low ammo and mobs coming from all directions.). It just seems like an added mechanic to slow(maybe RETARD, would be a better word), the players ambitions. It just isn't needed...not in its current state anyway. Does it add in ANY way to the basic principles of the game? Does it add value, or just busy work? It just seems thrown in to appease those who's idea of a game MUST include some silly hoops and ladders...and dare I say it "Achievements" for every step of the game. IMHO, it does NOT add anything to the game, and just sucks the fun right out of it. Whats the purpose of having gathered all the resources if you can't use them, because some arbitrary LEVELING systems says you can't. *This is why pure democracies rarely work for long...The majority ISN'T always right...sometimes they can be VERY wrong. But hey, its their money...now.
ahh but the point is it doesn't detract from game play, you can go about playing normally and just skill up in the tech tree as you go. I think the current tech tree is more of a place holder for what is coming. just like the dino's. it is a step in setting up fundamentals that will later be put into play, and as long as it doesn't hurt the game I can put up with a little inconvenience. this is pre alpha after all. would you rather wait until it was a finished product and have to say in how it evolves, or have no fun playing it in the mean time.
You're definately not alone in this. My experience is similar. 1. What I think about the current system The techtree in its current state is nothing more than a very minor timesink. It forces me to spend some time mining, exploring, killing and picking herbs for a little while but soon enough I'll be able to start constructing either my base or my SV and from that point on, I've not experienced a lack of points. On the contrary, I get to unlock stuff I won't be using for a while. So what's good about the current techtree? Well it ensures that new players aren't drowned in all the items and stuff they can build at once (though before the techtree, I've never felt overwhelmed, at all). That's about all the system does. Unlocking stuff isn't a challenge, at all. It doesn't offer me anything unique due to everyone being able to unlock everything. The timespan in which you might have an advantage due to the choices you've made in the techtree will not last for very long. 2. What could be improved Whenever I play a game that has a techtree I like to decide on a buildpath which will give me certain advantages (and disadvantages because I can't have it all). That's what makes a techtree fun for me. It's also what ensures diversity amongst players. What's the point of a techtree if I get to unlock everything anyway (and in a relatively small timeframe mind you). Does it change how I play the game? Absolutely not. Can I get some sort of bonus by investing into a certain part of the techtree? For a very short timespan maybe, right until my neighbouring players also spec into that part of the tree which they will do, because everyone can unlock everything in its current state. Don't get me wrong; I'm glad we'll get to play around with a techtree in Empyrion, providing it gets changed and enables us to create different builds which give us actual (and unique) advantages (and possibly disadvantages). Some suggestions for alternative tech trees which I would be likely to enjoy: Character talent tree Allow us to pick or build our own class. Offer us some techpaths. Here's a couple of examples of what I mean (note: examples below are just that; examples. The numbers/skills are not actual suggestions): - Weapons techpath: better zoom, increased damage, faster reloading time - Pilotting skills techpath: +10% maximum speed, ability to build a slightly better RVC, -10% fuel consumption rate - Builder tech path: increased armor/hp on stuff built by you, shorter build time when using a constructor built by you) - Miner techpath: +10% more gore gained when mining and/or faster mining, +10% increased range on detecting ore nodes Technology tech tree Gives me an actual reason to fight aliens besides stopping them from hassling me and my base. Give us more base items than the current tech tree does. Feel free to leave thruster upgrades and everything else that's an upgrade to an excisting item in there (I'm honestly perfectly fine with that). I would then like to see more upgrades to current items added to that tech tree. So how do we unlock these upgrades for our base items? Experience points ofcourse! How do we want to gather them? Well, I for one would be more than willing to go head to head with aliens for that yummy new tech and sweet upgrades. I'll gladly find blueprints and/or gain experiennce from my encounters with aliens. Added advantages if you don't give us enough points to unlock everything 1. People will want to seek out each other. I mean, by the time I get to the stage of wanting a CV, I'm going to want the best stuff on her and if that means I need some other players (either to co-operate or trade items with) then so be it. I'll take my chances with my neighbour. At least I'll now find out whether he's a good guy or a soon to be dead guy, right? 2. If I can't unlock everything on one character chances are I'll want to start playing a new character at some point and play through the game with the stuff I didn't get to unlock on my 1st character. Et voila, more replayability. 3. Level progression too fast/too slow That depends on how the system is going to change. Right now it's nothing more than a timesink so the progression can't be fast enough. I'll happily provide feedback when/if the system becomes relevant. 4. Tech tree and unlock points I'm not sure what the exact question is here. 5. Other feedback When people use words like 'arbitrary', 'trivial', 'gimmick and 'timesink' it's not because they're trying to be mean. Please dont'be discouraged by it devs. We're really not trying to be jerks. Really! We're just being really honest. Maybe if you guys (the devs) would tell us what you intended with this techtree it might create some understanding among those who currently dislike the system. Also, it'll enable us to give you more accurate feedback on what we think you need to change to achieve the goal you set out with this tech tree. I know I've said this before but I kinda feel left in the dark when giving feedback on the current system. Edit: Sorry for even longer post. Added some suggestions to my answer on question 2.
