Feedback from Pro PvP Player

Discussion in 'Other Discussion' started by -=Ice=-, Dec 8, 2019.

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  1. Demonic

    Demonic Captain

    Feb 2, 2018
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    That's true, you didn't make it personal, you insulted everyone who doesn't like or want to PvP and you act like a spoiled child.

    If that's not an attempt to insult everyone who doesn't play PvP, then I'm a pope.

    Oh I'm not saying they shouldn't fix stuff, quite the contrary, it's just your way of saying it isn't going to help any.
  2. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

    May 13, 2017
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    There's the thing: if you make big ships you expose more surface to be hit, and "splash" damage transfers through blocks with explosions, so I'm not sure that's the best design. Maybe you could show a "cut" view of the ships so we could see the interior design and how it can mitigate splash damage ? And more hits = more server calculations to be transferred via the network to both sides = more stuff to synchronize. Less is better for fluid network play.

    Like someone already mentioned, having lots of guns + blocks + speed + maneuverability is what causes lag problems on network, and especially weapons with big tracers that tax the graphics engine. There is an optimal number of things any server can synchronize and over that number problems start compounding.

    I agree. I don't even use blocks because of their mass. I prefer shutter doors and windows everywhere.

    With the recent changes we can get insane mobility, which is not good for synchronization. Whatever problem they were trying to solve it just got worse.

    200 m/s for dogfight, with ability to move sideways, is just insane. If ships were restricted to fly like world war 2 planes it would be possible at this speed, but not with strafing and instant stop and change direction like it is right now.

    What guns would you like "fully automatic" ? The gatlings are full auto, the laser too, but not the railguns or rockets, and that is understandable : their ammo cost a lot, and normally if we're OK to accept some minimal realism these weapons need to reload and take some time to charge (railguns) before firing. But the fire rate can be adjusted in the config file anyway. I tried making some guns fully auto (handguns) but I forgot if it worked or not. Worth a try ?

    Pilot mode was made to help moving big heavy and slow-to-turn ships. For dogfight it's better with pilot mode OFF. But the problem is also that players expect ships to behave like a player on foot, and that is a big problem because such rapid motion and reaction can't be properly synchronized on the network. The only solution to bring player input (mouse clicks and motion) closer to what happens at the other end of the network on other player's screens is to slow down everything. Making ship fights like a simple 1st person shooter is never going to be well synchronized because of the computing strain associated with voxel ships. Maybe one way to test the optimal builds (size + complexity) would be to play in a completely empty space playfield, without the zillion asteroids around to render, and start with very small builds. If the network can synchronize that effectively, then start building a bit bigger and test again.

    Moving targets not getting as much damage as stationary ones is normal, it's not a problem. And players can "see" things on their screens that are not really happening on the server side, because part of the rendering job is made with data from the server, and part from local data.

    You could try making empty space playfield and very small ships with just the minimum, and test if all bugs are as severe as in a "normal" playfield. That will indicate if the problems you see are "bugs" or just network bottlenecks.
    Germanicus likes this.
  3. CyberMech

    CyberMech Commander

    Jun 23, 2018
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    Я знаю как решить этот вопрос, все очень просто :)
    Нужно просто ввести систему прогнозирования местоположения игрока, упреждения, а также оружие на гимбальных подвесах (для ракетных установок не обязательно, поскольку ракеты у них и так должны прицеливаться сами в определенном диапазоне наведения)
    И хоть в эмпирионе ПВП не является главной его частью, но это его неотъемлемая часть без который игра про космос была бы крайне странной и не реальной.
    А раз так, то почему бы не использовать уже имеющиеся разумные идеи?!
    скрин ниже

    I know how to solve this issue, everything is very simple :)
    You just need to introduce a system for predicting the player’s location, anticipation, as well as weapons on gimbal suspensions (for missile launchers it’s not necessary, since the missiles they need to aim themselves in a certain guidance range)
    And although in the Empirion PVP is not its main part, but it is its integral part without which the space game would be extremely strange and not real.
    And if so, then why not use the existing reasonable ideas ?!
    image below


    "Thinking out loud."
    As for the beautiful ships, so the game system should be built so that square ships have poor aerodynamics, fly poorly and have no advantages over well-designed and decent-looking ships. Because this is the face of the game and you should not scare new players with flying coffins, because everyone likes good graphics. In short, it should be beneficial to design a ship similar to a ship, rather than a box, so that at any moment it’s can to place such a vessel in the game trailer.

    Two years ago, when I drew attention to the genre of multiplayer space games and began to look for a not very demanding game, but at the same time with wide opportunities for the player, I chose Empyrion when I watched the game trailer. In this trailer, I saw not only good graphics and great features, but most importantly - the ability to create spaceships similar to spaceships, whether it’s a star cruiser galaxy or a cruiser from star wars. And all this despite the fact that in the game ships are made of blocks! If in the game trailer or before I looked at the trailer, I would see such boxes that are shown in the pictures in message # 1, then all the desire to play this game would quickly disappear.
    Therefore, I believe that the game should be developed in this direction, focusing on the projects of good designers such as Jeff Randall, XCaliber and others, because they make the face of the game.
    But at the same time, of course, do not forget about the PVP of the players, motivating them to more carefully relate to the construction of their ships, as well as improve the mechanics of the PVP battles themselves, possibly upgrade damage to large ships and strengthening shields. And many successful solutions are already there, you just need to transfer them to Empyrion. In the end, why reinvent the wheel every time, when you can take advantage of proven solutions simply by adapting them to the game and finalizing it a bit?

    As for the balance of the CPU, as I wrote a little earlier - the boundaries of the CPU need to be adjusted. Because for example, 70k for PVP HV is very small, and the maneuverability of PVP HV is very much affected, turning it into a coffin.
    SV needs a new aiming system simulating a gimbal weapon.
    And for CV, you need to either increase the limits of the CPU from 10kk to 15-20 or reduce the cost of red engines.

    gOOgle translate

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
    Kassonnade likes this.
  4. Minelaus

    Minelaus Captain

    Sep 12, 2016
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    i don't play Singleplayer Survival , and creative i play only for design new stuff , i play PvEvP Multiplayer and you have those problems even with Npc enemys , just try to fly a sv and fire a volley of rockets with full speed on any npc turret , the rockets fly truh or disapearing without making any damage .

    how do YOU wan't to know how I play .

    o_O I done a lot in this game , somethink i like and some stuff i dislike , i think i make a lot more in this game than you , the think i didn't try yet is block modding :p

    Sound's more like youre atitude "I'm a PvP Pro and im sooo Badass" , of course you aren't but who cares.

    Yeah i like to design new ship's or making replikas, but more i would like to make fleet battles pvp or pve with them , but unfortunaly empyrion isn't very good for this , for this gametype i prefer Space Engineers .

    And again
    Google Translator : "Nevertheless: The Alpha means = It is primarily about feature installation, secondarily about performance."

    Kassonnade likes this.
  5. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

    May 13, 2017
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    Don't use the pilot mode on SV, and just make sure the ship turns/ aims adequatly. In fact the cost of ammunition could be reduced for automatic weapons (config file), so players can simply "paint" their opponent's path with lasers or bullets (interdiction fire). In the video posted in the first post we can see the player is not "leading" his target and waits for it to be aligned, so there is no path restriction for opponents here. With very low cost for ammo (ex. lasers) players can shoot non-stop in the path where opponents want to head into, forcing them to change direction unless they fly into damage. That is usually the tactic in other "space dogfights" but I didn't see that here.

    For CVs there should be a serious nerf to turning and acceleration abilities for PvP, because the bigger the ship, the slower it should behave. In fact no ship should be allowed to turn faster than a bicycle, and lots of problems would be avoided that way. If combat relies mostly on turrets, that eats a lot of bandwidth. If combat relies mostly on frontal weapons then it becomes more tactical, if frontal weapons could make much more damage and at much greater range than all turrets.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
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  6. SilvRav

    SilvRav Moderator

    • Moderator
    Jan 13, 2017
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    Thread locked until everyone can calm down. @-=Ice=- debate the topics and not the players.
    SacredGlade and Germanicus like this.
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