I would like to build underwater bases but the last time I tried there was no way to remove the water from inside the base. That was like 2 or 3 alphas ago. Any progress on water physics and to be able to do this in the future? Edit: I can confirm water is still getting in SVs, CV, and Bases even though they are airtight. I really would like to see water physics improved. I have a boat SV I should be able to turn off thrusters and have it float like a regular boat would. Also to be able to get water out of the interior so underwater bases make sense. Water builds is still on hold till they fix water. Please update us.
I'm not sure if you read my post. My post is about water not acting like water. That you cannot have underwater bases because you cannot get rid of the water inside your base. I tried as soon as you build a base underwater your whole base is complete filled in water. It's a base and functions like a base but only with water in it. And you cannot use any types of boat builds for SV/HV/CV cause water gets inside even though the hull is intact. The water physics doesn't exist. Which makes all my water and underwater builds useless. Water still acts like a paper mesh. The water as it is now gets really really borked if you start drilling in or around. Its like paper water.
I have a boat hv and it does float like a boat should do on water I can even turn off thrusters and it gets pulled away with current, or it used to. If you want boats use HV, sv just wont cut it and never will for water and its very unlikely elon would code anything to do with sv using water. I got a workshop full of HV boats though, probably need some updating because of weight and stuff, all them maybe got a inch of water in the carpets now xD
That does look like a lot of fun. I made a boat SV and had plans for a CV sailing or some kind of water ship.
My main collection of hv boats were inspired by a sv yacht I found on the workshop by another builder.
What ravien_ff said was accurate. The only way to remove water from your underwater base is to use your drill on the fill mode (right click and select it) and fill the area with terrain. The terrain from your drill replaces the water with regular terrain. Then when you remove the terrain you placed down you are left with regular empty "air". An underwater air pocket as if there was never water in that spot. So you remove a block from the floor to access the ground and then fill the entirety of your underwater base with terrain. Every......Last.....Inch. Then you simply remove all the terrain you placed down. You will then no longer swim inside your base. It will be exactly the same as the "air" on the rest of the planet. You can then properly seal and pressurize your underwater base with oxygen if the planet isn't normally breathable. This is a painstaking process, yes, but it is also the only way to remove water from an underwater base. You do also have to be careful not to accidentally fill any of the area outside your base with terrain or it will look weird, since there will just be an air pocket outside the base when you are done. I recommend to use at least one layer of full blocks for your exterior blocks to minimize this issue. I also don't recommend using the thin window blocks on the exterior.
That sounds way too complex and it will just look borked if you mess up. I know this isn't really high on there list of things to do at this moment but It would be nice if they worked on water physics. And it would be nice to see marine life. Also it will make underwater builds make sense but I can wait. I'm always hungry for new content.
So, this is a 2018 thread. How is that feedback review going ? Whats the decision on water ? Will Empyrion's water ever change now the game is 1.0 and beyond and updates have slowed ? Is there any chance at all we might see water function similar to Minecraft ? Is there any chance at all that water will have some sort of pushing force, handy for traps etc ? Why wasnt a ''dynamic water'' update done before 1.0 ? Are there in fact no plans to ever change water now ? Moving slightly beyond water but still physic's related, will Empyrion ever see the OPTION for players to have more realistic physic's ? From space to planet to water ? We have not really had a really memorable update for ages, something you look back at and see a clear milestone was reached, 1.0 doesnt count because lets face it the game is still being developed like its pre 1.0 still anyway and if its a true 1.0 release where not much changes from here, well water is pretty fundamental isnt it so what does that say.......... A water update that gives water some physics and dynamics, would have been something people would have remembered, really liked a lot, as its popular, what a great update that would have made for the 1.0 release...oooops. There has been literally years of , data collection, research, feedback on this topic now, any chance of a final answer to some of these questions ? Its blatantly obvious to me Empyrion's playerbase would like some of these things, and I am pretty sure Eleon know the answers to most of the above questions by now, so what about some Eleon feedback to us with some answers.
Have a look at this... https://outerra.com/ And then this... https://forum.outerra.com/index.php?topic=3228.0
Noted this thread was started in 2018. And yet water still looks pretty bad if you start messing with it with a drill cause you can create unrealistic air pockets and voids that shouldn't exist. I'm not sure if the Devs ran into a major problem or just abandoned the water project cause there happy with how it is. It feels like so much more can be added to improve water. Marine life for one why is there no fish life? I think one of the components to survival is ability to catch fish to eat. Ether a fishing spear or a rod and reel. There is always a problem when developers take a game out of Alphaa is that you won't be getting new updates like you used to. It's why I'd prefer games to stay in Alpha stage till it is complete. Once a game leaves Alphas the Devs can and most likely will abandon a game and call it complete. There is so much more Empyrion needs it isn't even close to being done. With the slowing down of Empyrion development i'm just not sure moving Empyrion out of Alpha was a good move. Cause I feel this will put the idea that the Developers can abandon the game. Or complete it unfinished. My concern is that Empyrion will get abandoned at some point unless stuff gets added for core play. It's been awhile since we had a wow thats Awesome patch. I'm not saying the next one should be a water patch but something that is refreshing and brings in alot of players. I even see 25-50% decrease in the forum activity then when I saw it in 2015. I'm not really seeing people talking like they used too here. Which points that Empyrion is slowing down and slowing down on the updates. It won't be long till the game stops updating. Unless there is another wow factor patch that brings people in. A water update would be one of those wow factor patches if they added marine life and realistic physics to it. This picture is someone elses screenshot on the Steam Discussion forum. You can see the water looks really messed up. And it was on a V1.3.3 on this screenshot. But water will still be the same way in V1.3.4 current. That water in this picture looks like a paper cut out and he used scissors to cut the water and the drill just made a unrealistic air pocket on the bottom. https://steamcommunity.com/app/383120/discussions/1/2998801130542332805/ Once you start adding the drill to Empyrion water the water physics in Empyrion collapses. Drills always messed up Empyrion water in this way.
I think we probably have to face the fact that this game is centred around space physics not planetary, whilst planets are a big part of the game obviously, there no doubt has to be a point when you must draw a line because too much of one thing can negatively affect another thing. Water is not talked about a lot by the community except for cases where underwater bases are concerned. This thread was just my way of trying to find out if there would be more done on the water, hummel previously stated that anything water is very minimal priority. Though he did say there were some plans for water, however minor they might be. The focus is more in the space and flight physics as that is what the game centres on. I can understand this. It is still possible that some at least, minor tweaks and changes might come to the water. As it stands though I am still able to use my HV boats and they have never worked better( though i need to update some of them for cpu and weight etc because there a little water in some of the carpets now with recent device weight balancing) And several recent eleon changes have made things better for HV boats. 1. the cruise control system makes hv boat movement a lot more controllable. 2. Shield added to boat gives me shielded warships for attacking poi from the water. 3. Docking sv-hv-hv gives the potential to make an aircraft carrier hv with docked attack jet sv and also other docked smaller boats. Would be nice to have a working submersible to dock onto it ! Without even trying, eleon have increased the potential for boat builders and water play I think at this point, they could at least just throw some fish in the water add a fishing rod and maybe add a fishing net system for hv ^_^
And now that I have said it, I totally want to build an aircraft carrier hv with little jets on the deck my mind is already churning in creative thought. Perhaps I could add some lifeboat braces to my cruise liner with hv lifeboats attached. Maybe even dock sv helicopters on the helipads i made on the roof back then. Perhaps a personal launch to launch from a rear mounting on my regular yachts. Perhaps a cargo ship with moveable hv cargo containers. Whilst eleon does not seem to be investing time making new content for water, that does not mean that we cant, in fact the more wonderful concepts we produce for water, the more likely it is that water will get some future attention. Would be cool to see commerce and combat taking place over water, between water using neighbours on a planet. Each player has a dock, some private yacht, some combat boats, some trading/cargo boats. Go further and imagine if we could make a segment of water within a large water body into PVP. We can hold carrier battles Each carrier manned by a faction, each carrier has a few basic sv fighters. HWS already has this in a way, they have a PVE water planet called atlantis, and there is a giant stargate there which can teleport you and your vessel to a PVP water planet. I can dream of scenarios all day long, but it is as I said before, it is something the community does not really talk about or actively engage in during play. Hence the lack of eleon interest toward water based play. Building bases underwater is not currently intended mechanics by eleon as far as I am aware, even though its possible to some degree. So the water removal problem some players face when trying, is not an issue to eleon. HV boating is also not intended mechanics by eleon, it is just an accidental by-product. However the amount of boats I made and posted in the forum, did get at least one dev's attention. And eleon did help me with at least 1 bug report that could only be detected using a hv boat. I think that was because the boats worked so well as if they were intended mechanics. Anyway, the boat phase died down and is forgotten,(but still fully viable) I have made no new boats over a year. I never ever see anyone using boats anywhere. They are a fun short lived novelty unless your gameplay and the gameplay of others is centred around using boats or water. And that is not likely to happen much in this space game. I think the water is probably finished because after hummel's earlier statement, updates came much later that did add more underwater foliage and stuff. The other problem is if your going for water content its all or nothing, eleon knows this, once you start getting real water content/pysics then much more is expected afterwards such as new vessel starter block submersible, lots of underwater life underwater poi and other various underwater content. A new physics system for underwater vehicles. New start locations etc And then a million other ideas and requests from the general community. It is almost a pandora's b0x for a developer They will literally be creating a whole new game within the game they have and that would be a huge undertaking and this point. Currently, I believe from the developers point of view, the water is just a visual effect to make planets look and feel nicer, with the added bonus of supplying us vital substances for survival, and it works. When i came back in alpha 8 the water looked a whole lot nicer, I only made a boat as a scenery object, felt right to see boats in the water in the distance, I guess I got carried away because that was when I found boats to be very viable. Next thing you know, I have a fleet xD I dont expect eleon will develop the water much but as i said earlier, fishing would be nice And if possible, have it so players can use an underwater base without breaking the visual water as they do today. Allow a pressurised underwater base. Perhaps a device that when added to a base underwater, could auto remove the water blocks from the confines of the bases sealed interior. This could be considered a pump and when unpowered could allow water blocks back in ^-^ The bigger the interior the more pumps required. Though, I am sure someone has probably given this very suggestion before. As for fishing: I wrote a fishing script in a couple of days in second life using ll just last year, creating fishing in empyrion would be relatively easy for the devs. However I am wondering if with the new dev tools we have to hand, can we write our own fishing scripts for single player or server usage ? We would not need to have fish in the water, a basic script could just spawn a fish model on the end of the line for a few seconds when you have a positive catch. Creating a sort of fishing simulator that could even host competitions and hold stats of most and larges catches. Add some new models of your own fish designs and turn them into cookable, edible objects right ? With what little i noticed and read about new tools, im not ruling out that we can actually code our own fish to swim around in the water at the moment. If this is possible, could it not also be possible that we could make our own pressurised underwater base script ? Can we not do something like this with current devtools ? I have been away so I really dont know whats possible atm. Somebody will have to fill in the blanks here
As in that screenshot it takes one drill to bork the water beyond reality. Creating air pockets and making water look like paper cut outs thats been glued to the edges of a land mass. The drill makes it known that water needs attention as far as basic physics goes there is no way water should looks like you drew water on a piece of paper and glued over a pit to make it look like a pond. Water is not done and it would be a waste if the developers left it as it is. I get it this is a space game with planets but if they want to planets they need to add basic physics in liquids as planets will ether have lava, Liquid methane, Water, Liquid Oxygen and whatever. I'm not saying they need to add water based poi's quests. I'm saying liquid in general including water needs to look real and not a piece of paper. I'm having big plans to build my Grandpas old fishing boat into the game as a Memorial. My grandpa did pass away last month I want to build the boat as a memorial to him. But the way water works right now I'd have to make it a SV or a CV and have it fly and avoid water all together. Cause paper water really break immersion. I really just want water to behave like water not paper. We don't have to have poi's, quests and special loot or even fish. I do want and I do ask for water to be worked on to have better physics. When you drill a hole next to the beach or shore water should rush in to fill the void. When you dig a hole underwater it should fill the void instantly and not create a air pocket. To think of it this way. If your on a server or even on the official server from Eleon someone can seriously troll alot of people by damaging the water so much with the drill creating massive air pockets and air voids that would cause chaos to HV's trying to cross. All it takes is one troll to cause massive damage to a lake that will make HV travel very difficult. If someone can cause air voids in a small pond imagine what a harden troll can do to a lake creating air pockets to hinder HV travel. This really needs fixed. HV's needs to hover and if a HV is crossing a mass of water and a troll creates air voids that would sink the HV to the lake floor then when your trying to get the HV out your hit with a mixure of air void water air void water air void sinking and floating. You can see the problem this creates on Servers if someone really wanted to cause alot of trolling.
This game is actually centered around the PLANETS not space. Thats Space Engineers, its centered around space. Empyrion is about the planets, in 2014 the whole point was to build a game like SE like MC with actual planets in the game, because back then no game really did it well at all and SE didnt even have planets until Empyrion was released and put them on notice as all the MP crowd switched to Empyrion where you can actually fight someone and not have it be a slide show. So Empyrion is a planet based game set in a space environment, the space bit is the expansion to get to other planets, and the amount of work Eleon did on the planet generator, hands down winner of all of our generators, the most complex and has the most assets to place. The galaxy generator does not even come close to the solar system generator which in turn does not even come close to the planet generator. And although this is a 2018 thread, doesnt mean Eleon have given up on water, it might, or it might not, until the devs actually answer some of those questions asked in previous post, we dont really know, because re-doing water might be one of those projects they have been doing on the side for a couple of years knowing its a huge task, its a guess but we need to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Now water is really important, I have posts going back many years pushing for a water system similar to subnautica and how they did it inside of Unity. A check for all bases below sea level, a check for base being in a body of water, if below sea level and in water, game applies same rule set for example that subnautica has, where you can flood or drain a base and animations to suit. Its the simple non volumetric way basically. Our water worlds should have had a light and colour spruce up, to try and become more like Subnautica underwater, more colourful and vobrant and alive with creatures, Empyrion seriously lacks this. Eleon didnt do a bad job on underwater assets, but I think it could be much better also. A whole set of new underwater assets would do wonders for this game, a section of the SP story that takes you to a water world to explore under water would be a great progression step and give players something serious to do, really interesting goals. If your going to spend all your time in space, and not on planets exploring etc, the game is only half the size for you, most of the best content, is on planets. Maybe water was just to much for performance ? Maybe, it would be nice to get some actual answers from the devs being this is a 2018 thread where the devs commented about re-working water and have never said anything since that comment , is this how water will be for ever now ?
The devs has to look into this as a anti grief measure now since I pointed this troll tip out. And i'm not sure why this isn't even a bug at this point. Cause you can make a drill use filler mode and dig the fill out this creates a air pocket and and if you wanted to stop HV traffic from crossing a lake all you need to do is make a fill large enough to destroy enough water mass then dig out the fill. And people will have to use SV's to cross the lake thats been damaged. With a group of people you could basically destroy and entire lake where Water should be. Filler dig filler dig.
Making water dynamic fixes that, like Minecraft has. Asked for that before too but it might be to much performance wise, they havent said. Our issue vs MC is that everything in Empyrion is lovely and curved, and in MC everything is square and blocky. So our water if its the precise same as MC will look blocky and squarish and just out of place. But making that curve and fill a voxel in a fluid kind of fashion is much much much more PC intensive.....Now consider lakes and oceans and you get the problem. Just the edges of the lakes oceans would use a crapton of processing power to pull off smoothly so I dunno how far Eleon will take water, but not leaving as it is now would be a fantastic first step.
