I don't even have time to "play"... I mostly do stuff, start a new game, check stuff, exit the game, rinse and repeat. After a few dozen times I delete all savegames to make room for the next ones. There are just too many things to do / check/ test in this game sometimes I just look at my screen wondering what am I going to do next... I would save lots of time if I could have all information easily available, but I can understand why they don't want to spend weeks documenting all, knowing they're going to change things anytime. Just like the wiki that went dead long time ago : too hard to follow the pace I guess...
Sorry, but I have to disagree. Good modding API and docs - is a good source of new features and ideas to implement in the base game. It is like free outsource power. Not very qualified, but very productive Along with that it increases end-user satisfaction and popularity of the product. So, I think they lose more than they achieve, by avoiding of documenting the stuff that tend to change.
Don't make me laugh... "User satisfaction" ? Do you read the same forums I read ? Whatever the devs do, half the playerbase complains, and some do it persistently. They said they would not support "modding" but gave us the tools, because 1- players don't report bugs, they yell "fix this Eleon" 2-when players report bugs, they don't mention what was modded half of the time and Eleon waste time trying to understand the problem 2-when Eleon opens a crack in the door, some players insert a crowbar to try to pry it open all the way (like me hehe) 3-"modding" can not achieve more than what the base game can deliver. Unless they release everything, we can only put plaster on top of whatever is beneath. This means that if a mod is popular but sucks everything out of the machine, the players will gang up on the devs to get it in base game even if it's not realistic nor "optimizable" In my experience, "documenting" is a job by itself and is very time consuming, and it's not something programmers like to do, if I can rely on what people in the field around me know about it. Also note that the developers are German and documentaion would have to be in English, and this is another layer or repulsiveness preventing them from seeing "documentation" as a fun and trivial "routine". Now don't get me wrong : I know the "principles". I'm just saying here that in Eleon's context, being under the spotlight like they are, I completely understand why they may not want to spend more time than needed providing us detailed documentation on everything.
No, no, no) First of all, Eleon's ability to fix bugs is the worst I've seen ever(And I've seen a lot). I reported several bugs in A12, and they are still in the game in a14. I see a lot of posts, when people report bugs, and there are a hell lot of confirmations under the OP from other users, still Eleon "Cannot reproduce it". Last time, when I found out, that items disappearing from the connected toolbar "IS NOT A BUG", I clearly understood that they just dont care. I understand why, a lot of developers dont fix bugs nowadays, because "everything tends to change". I will not express my own thoughts about that. Everything has been told a lot of times before, so you can just consider this another sign of the game in Early Access. Wait, Empyrion is not in EA anymore? What a surprise. The comparison is false. Developers should be creating and fixing base game mechanics. And not waste time to create stuff. Btw, they do just the same right now with blueprints. They just add new POI's from other authors to the base game - and that is right! That is absolutely awesome. Take this system and move over all other aspects of the game. Give people tools - let them create content - add content to the game. Of course. Nobody likes it. You have a fair point. I have created two manuals for users last week, and created two policies this week. Translated all of these to another two languages. It is a real headache and takes a lot of time, I could do hell lot of a job instead of writing all these docs. Or not? Do you imagine how much time I actually saved by creating these manuals? How many stupid questions will be avoided? How many calls and requests replaced by this docs? Hm. There are still would be "genius" guys who is not reading, but they are just a minority. Maybe I am doing false comparison myself right now. But if we talk about experience, here are my two cents.
I see them too, and too often they are not properly supported, circumstancial, hardware-related, or already known but similar so players think they will have the other bug fixed by flooding another bug's thread. The error here is to give all credit to players that just have to say "I saw that too" while giving none to the developer, who sees things from the inside. Ten players can report a similar thing, and these can have no relation but there is no way to "prove" anything without all details, hardware, installed software, action tracking, etc. And you know that. This taints the credibility of your whole answer, as I don't feel you're really trying to find "the truth" behind the perceptions. Then they shouldn't waste time on documentation, right ? We can't have both. And I wrote that I understand that. .
I work in an Enterprise IT sphere for my whole life. And from my experience, the worst thing you can do is to accuse customers of not being "specific", or doing "the same mistakes", or not supplying you needed information. They are ordinary customers, they do not understand a thing in what is going on on your(developers) part and how all processes work. The burden of problem-solving is on Eleon's shoulders. If somethings is reported, start giving suggestive questions. Or create a form, where the user should fill in the form, so he cannot send request without filling all fields. They should optimize the process as much as they can to really ACHIEVE result. From what I see - a lot of posts just getting marked as "NOT A BUG" or "NOT REPRODUCIBLE" without even asking a thing. That is what I call "not trying to find the truth". I just gave you an example that I do both. A lot of my colleagues do both. A lot of my mates from other companies do both. If they are not qualified to document stuff, hire a guy who will sit, watch and write everything. If you want to do something you find a way. If you don't want to do something, you find excuses. © Socrates
So what is the worst thing to "accuse customers of" : not being specific, doing the same mistake, or not supplying information ? You do realise that by making this statement, you include "not supplying information" as something the developer should accept, shut up and obey "customers" ? I think they're doing just that, and just skipping the repeating game to each and everyone, all the time. You can help doing that if you want, I will watch you and cheer. Well that's another neat package here, putting all these in the same bag without a single nuance. Well there's also that thing called "freewill" that Socrates forgot : if you don't want to do something, don't do it. Fair and simple. But on the point : Eleon decides what they do with their money, not us. All we have is a recommendation "power" via good arguments. Shall I repeat ?
@xtended2l You may now relax and read RG release notes. Explosions are nerfed so you wont explode too fast. See my friend? I was right telling you to wait for the improvements.
Hm did I said that? I said "not supplying needed information". Please don't take the words out of context It means, that the end user couldn't know which information is needed to the problem solver along with what is visible to him. So the problem solver should, as I already stated, ask suggestive questions to the customer, to "find the truth". Procedures my friend. Procedures Hm. Not actually a bag. Just two cases from the bag. And what nuance do you need? I already described both cases in color. Isn't it so obvious, that items that just vanish from the game on disconnect is actually a bug? Do you need people to take million screenshots, mention that it happen both in vanilla AND scenarios. On windows 7, 8 and 10. When its dark outside and when it is day. It seems, that you just dont want to find the truth. lol. From that point of view I cannot disagree, you can stop breathing if you don't want to. Nobody is going to stop you
You're just spinning the same argument : if players jump on a thread saying " I saw the same thing" without supplying any info I hardly see why the devs should waste one minute considering these, however "evil" you try to make it look. Actually what you wrote was this : "Last time, when I found out, that items disappearing from the connected toolbar "IS NOT A BUG", I clearly understood that they just dont care." Now it's "items that just vanish from the game on disconnect". So which is it ? That's what I mean when mentioning "credibility". Because documenting is an obligation ? .
Another confirmation is a statistics that should be listened to. And I will repeat until you understand, instead of ignoring this statistics it is better to ask a suggestive answers to find out the truth. That is how it works all around the world. Every sane person understands it is a bug. Developers further described in comments that they understand it is a bug, but they cannot solve it atm. I don't understand your passion about the case. Because everyone has rules to obey. If you ignore rules as I described you are doing damage only to yourself.
Making up facts you can't either proove nor verify does not help your point. Go check everywhere around the world and tell me when you're done, then I will consider. Of course you can't understand my passion : there's none, and the problem I mention is not "the case" but "two versions" of the case that you now simply skip to take me somewhere else. Ho you can try to "scare" Eleon into documenting everything if you want, I'm not going to interfere... lol
It looks like you've never contacted any decent customer support services. Or all you contacted acted the same lol It is a pity. haha It was a good example, that even Eleon admitted their mistake, but not you It is one of ancient ways of making the job done lol My intentions come from a pure heart and a desire to help, nothing more. And tbh I am not inventing America or stuff here, it is just best practices, which again, recognized all around the world, but it seems you are going to ask me for a proof again
Any decent customer service is not the department doing the actual work. Now you sound like a salesman that ignores what the tech guys are doing in the back store. You still avoid the question : which of the two cases are you talking about ? Do you still remember what we're talking about ? Note that after reading what you can write to defend a point, I'm not sure I'm going to trust your word on what you will report from whatever happened somewhere some time ago... "Best practice : use fraudulent arguments and exaggerate issues, invent facts, then try to scare producer into working like told to". I can't deny the humor. .
It is not the first time you are doing wrong assumptions. Sometimes support service is not doing the actual work, sometimes it does. It doesnt matter. What is matter - if you cannot do the job of support service, better to hire a qualified person to do the job. It was just a test to prove you are biased in the conversation. I bet you have your own reasons. You can easily avoid of trusting anyone on the internet lol Way better practice is to be stubborn, take words out of context, calling the black - white, then saying that "they just do whatever they want". And in the end start demagogy and attack the person instead of the subject to totally screw up the conversation. I cant deny the experience.
Drifting away from the topic again. Or "losing focus" if you prefer. I am not forgetting the premiss that Eleon does what it wants with its money, and these discussions trying to show them what to do are fruitless and just to show off one's tiny bit of knowledge or experience in X or Y field. You're just showing that you completely ignore the context of the developer and the game here to argue back and forth on various subjects vaguely related to documentation. WalMart does customer service, they don't document how they make their blankets. Here, just like you, I use "examples" and we're not one inch closer to the reality of the game. Your only reason to continue trying to "win" anything here may be to try to cover that this whole thread was based on a wrong assumption on your part, which some players made you realize after you flatly accused Eleon for something related to player-made content. Seeing now how hard you try to take this "side topic" all over the place makes me wonder if you really believe I think I'm going to learn something from you today. My feeling is that you're trying to show you know much by preaching about how long you worked in IT and how you traveled the world to investigate "customer service" and blablabla, but you're going nowhere. Now you start using logic memes after leaving it aside since the beginning of the discussion. The only reason you start picking up hints from what I wrote and how I wrote it is because you have nothing more to say. Now it's time to call me troll, isn't it ? The plain reality of this discussion is that you just start it saying " You're wrong" and then try convoluted ways to get points when you just didn't have to say it to start with. Just like this whole thread in fact. Nobody is going to do anything here for you with the kind of methods you use. Once again, it's a question of "credibility". Do what you want with your own, and see what happens. .
