Yeah, everyone keeps making a big fuss about the 3080 - but I think that is proximity hype. Ordinarily that 70 series of cards is the sweet spot, but this time around it is a honey, icing, doughnut, mega sweet spot. That looks to be about 15 - 20% faster than the 2080 *TI. Which is absolutely nuts. <- no. Nvidia lied. Intel should also do something flailing interesting in the spring too. They have virtually disappeared from new chip sales so I fully expect them to come out swinging; INTEL SMASH! From October through April/May is gonna be a really interesting time for consumer tech.
Well, it is confirmed: https://www.techspot.com/news/86683-big-radeon-6000-reveal-could-arrive-tomorrow.html October 8th for Ryzen 4000 series of CPU's and October 28th for Next gen GPU's. About what I expected and it means that Nividia cannot sneak in behind them with the 3070 which they nebulously mentioned is going to launch in October.
@Fractalite I used some plastic plates, that could take a bit heat, half hard from some box. Proper duct tape to fasten to chassis and other walls. Do not need to be completely sealed towards MB and such, not that high air pressure. Avoid screws and glue. Can probably use "compact" cardboard or thin wooden composite plates. Or find a worn metal chassis and cut it up.
Whelp, it's official, Nvidia lied through its teeth during the announcement: @michaelhartman89 the 3070 could still be a decent upgrade, but it is not quite the sweet spot anymore. There is a very good chance that the sweet spot is actually RDNA2 that is announcing late October(which I think is still in your time frame.) This is Actually Hardcore Overclocking with Buildzoid: And while that is definitely not content for everybody, and he, in the very next video, criticizes himself for putting out a speculation video; still manages to extrapolate the card or cards coming in late October for AMD might be really awesome for cheaper and lower wattage. I dunno, since they are tied to a collaboration with Sony and Microsoft it is highly likely that they will be well supported. Maybe? I am now going to wait to find out. One thing that IS true is that with Nvidia's colossal lie, things have become a little less clear.
I don't think NV lied, they just used the base-case scenario as pretty much everyone does. I mean, it IS more than twice as fast at certain tasks, just not for gaming. I agree, it's a very deceptive practise - if what they say is taken at face-value - however, I've learnt to filter much of the hype and, as such, the 3080 performs pretty much exactly as I expected based on what I knew about the architectural changes. All that said, I was sat on NV's own website from just before 2pm today UK-time, waiting for the option to order, but it never came. It went from "Notify me" (which I had done, no notification received) to "Out of Stock" in the space of one refresh. Aka - solid out in less than five seconds... Retailer have been no better here in the UK, with the big players such as Scan and Overclockers UK suffering web site outages for the first half hour. Broken links for the next half hour after that then no stock. To add insult to injury, prices were going up £50 every half hour for certain cards, yet there was never any stock shown (all had dates in the future, at least a week off) and "Pre-Ordering" to nab a spot in the queue was broken. I've been using a 1070 since launch in 2016. A great card, but now the oldest - and most restrictive - part of my system as I did a rebuild in November last year to a new 3900X build - sans the GPU of course. I actually bought that 1070 on launch day - or within a few hours of it - and got a great card for the best price it was ever listed at. I'd hoped to repeat that with the 3080, but I was never given the option to. Those who have managed to secure cards in the UK, well, I wonder how or whether it was pure luck as it simply hasn't been an option for me. I'm hoping stock will actually appear, but I worry that the price gauging has gone a bit nuts before there was any actual stock. Maybe things will calm down. I don't need a new GPU - hell, I don't "need" a gaming PC, nice car, house or 101 other "nice" things we all like, but I had hoped to treat myself to a GPU upgrade today lol. I of course stand by waiting when something new and shiny is on the horizon, but it's a frustrating process when I've already been waiting ten months to finish off my build - the 2080/S/Ti never looked good value to me, coming from a 1070. However, the 3080 looked like a really sweet upgrade, being typically three times plus faster than my current GPU, with the option to go 4k - something I plan to do after (if) I get a 3080. Maybe this is a blessing eh? Perhaps AMD will surprise everyone this time...though my faith in that is low after prior over-promising...and I still have driver issues with other AMD GPU's I own to this day *sigh* Anyway, happy thoughts, first world problems and all that. I just ate five cookies....bloody Nvidia lol. Scoob.
*Fractalite slowly eases forward with hands outstretched* Baaaacccckkkk aawwwaaayyy from the cookies Scoob.... In all seriousness though, Scoob, friend, you say "I've learnt to filter much of the hype" but you are sitting at your computer mashing the refresh? I mean this in the most supportive way possible but it sounds like just a teensy bit of denial there. Really, come away from it, I promise, come late October when AMD announces RDNA 2 the supply lines will suddenly, magically, get better. So if you really have your heart set on the 3080 it is just a month and a half away. This current scarcity is clearly deliberate, which is adding to my anger around Nvidia. And yeah, Nvidia clearly lied. The video on the previous page has Jennson stating multiple times "2x the performance of the 2080 TI" without any context. I have always expected greed from Nvidia, but *their 20 series stuff and now it seems the 30 series, is clearly more. Which is unfortunate. I agree that AMD is going to have to earn the trust back with drivers, but wait Scoob wait! No matter how frustrating it might get; even if you have to chain your arms to the office chair, wait till late October. I believe you mentioned something about patience being key back on page 1. So I will proffer your own advice back to you.
Heh, the cookie guilt will last for days, so I'll be back on track and disciplined lol. What I mean is the cards performed as I expected so I was pleased with the level of actual gaming performance on offer for the price. I was a little excited at the idea of getting one at launch, especially considering my four years with the 1070, but I wasn't expecting the peak improvement figures for everything, hence my general satisfaction with the product as a whole. Yeah, deception via omission is pretty much the norm and I never believed it'd apply to gaming and certainly not across the board. So, Jensen's "Marketing speak" (aka lies lol) was largely filtered out and a still pretty solid product was presented to me. A good enough product that the aforementioned "Marketing speak" seemed a largely pointless exercise to me when the 3080 is a really solid card, especially at 4k. Unless a particularly good deal pops up (not gonna happen I expect) then I'm actually fine waiting longer. I expect many feel the same. They would happily have bought today, but this release has been such a total fiasco of disappointment that much of the excitement has gone. Yep, I will continue to be patient as NV and AIB's obviously cannot deliver product to people at the moment. As an aside, the only games I play at the moment run just fine: Empyrion, Ark, X4, Forged Alliance, though it'd be nice to turn the settings up a bit on the first two. I mean, I'm hardly slumming it with a 1070 @ 1200p - glad I didn't order that 4k Monitor in advance now as I was going to, the 1070 would likely have died running that native at my preferred settings. Scoob.
Ah good, I hope I was not too personal with the whole "in denial" reference - I did that only to jar you a touch in the even that you were sitting at your computer, shivering, saliva dripping from one corner of your mouth muttering to yourself "I m...must get o...ne" while frantically clicking at the screen. So, holy crap, just the reference I was hoping for - how is the 3900x performance in that game? Frankly I am surprised it is not used for more benchmarks. I used to play SC:FA a lot more but I never really got a CPU that could comfortably handle it like I wanted. Course that was 7 years ago and should have had me thinking "why did I not buy intel?" <- at least at the time. Owing to the fact that I am not as much a gamer as I used to be, I am more interesting in AMD this time around for other tasks, but it would be neat if the 3k series or the 4k could also handle that game.
Heh, no worries, I appreciate the consideration Re: FA - its predecessor, the original Supreme Commander, was the title that made me go from AMD (X2 4200+ duel core) to the mighty Q6600 back in the day. It's interesting actually, the vanilla game of FA will still slow down on larger maps with lots of AI's that go on for a while, even on this system. However, I use the LOUD Project Mod, which fixes many of the bugs that cause this issue - yep, they were BUGS that were alleviated somewhat by faster CPU's - some gameplay is great. I recall, back in the day, using the excellent Core Maximiser tool that actually managed thread allocation back then as Windows was TERRIBLE at it. These days, with the LOUD Project Mod, I can play on 40x40 maps with 10+ AI's and I never see below zero (standard) sim-speed. That's in a Skirmish that goes on for many hours. Game basically runs on ONE Thread, load on other threads barely registers. As an aside, the aforementioned Q6600 is still in regular use. I'm typing this on a Q6700 system right now, such good CPU's and still more than adequate for lighter (non-gaming) tasks... I really must try LOUD on one of my three Q6600 / Q6700 systems.... When I picked the 3900X over the then current 9900K I did it knowing that the 9900K would likely have the edge in games - especially at lower resolutions that were less GPU-limited. However, to me, getting 220 FPS vs. 200 FPS (with a supporting GPU) wasn't worth the higher price considering I'm fine with a vSync'd 60hz display - though I will be upgrading at some point. I wanted to tinker more with other things, such as video recording, plus there was also the fact I was keen to try AMD again after so many years. Great value CPU's that work perfectly well in gaming and expand my tinkering options somewhat. Combine this with FINALLY getting proper FTTP broadband last month (from 18/1 mbps to 300/49) is a huge leap - just not had quite the time to tinker of late, though system is running really well bar the pronounced GPU bottle-neck. Still, turn a few settings down to within the 1070's abilities to sustain a minimum of 60fps and I'm happy enough... Scoob.
There is a rumor going around that there could be instability problems with the 3080 series of cards. Know that the issue has not been, precisely, confirmed but everyone keeps talking about PoSCaps, and the capacitors in question are not PoSCaps: Note: towards the end of the video Buildzoid, who has been hesitating during the entire length, comes out and asks for oscilloscope readings and says he needs more data to know what the problem is.
I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait...I don't want to wait... I don't want to wait... ... ... ... Whew! Alright, feeling better.
I did read about how some AIB's appear to have "cheaped out" on their VRM choice - it's these that appear to be suffering from the crashing issue. Others however have followed the Founder's Edition more closely and don't have the issues. It's all to do with how GPU Boost will push a card well beyond its advertised "Boost" clocks if power and temps are within certain limits. Usually not an issue - in fact, a great benefit for generations of NV GPU's now - however, with Ampere being a tad more power hungry and GPU Boost not knowing about what VRM's are used, it causes stability issues. I suspect that a simple down-clock of 25-50 mhz would likely "fix" it and the performance hit would be insignificant. However, it's still a bit of a marketing / perception nightmare for AIB's - NV don't appear to be at fault here, unless the information provided to AIB's explicitly showed the cheaper VRM's as being fine...which perhaps they did. Still, it's not the Core Ampere silicon that's the problem here, rather the power delivery options chosen by some AIB's. I'm set on waiting for a bit now, frustrating as that is - I too don't want to wait, but I will wait to ensure I get a good product at a fair price. I'm quite keen to see what the 3080 20GB comes in at, I'm guess +200 USD but hopefully less. As well as what "Big Navi" will deliver - I'm fairly Brand agnostic, but have been with NV for years as they always had the best proposition every time I went to buy...same with Intel until my recent move to AMD with the 3900X. As I said before, my existing 1070 is still a really solid GPU so I'm hardly slumming it at the moment. Sure, I need to turn a few settings down to ensure a solid 60 fps in various titles now, but I'm ok with that. My next purchase is set to TRIPLE my existing performance, so it's going to be a huge jump regardless Oh, as an aside, I have formed a plan regarding Zen 3. If Zen 3 does totally destroy Zen 2 in gaming, I'll likely grab an eight core Zen 3 for the gaming rig, then build a work-horse type PC around the 3900X...I like to tinker Just playing you understand, I have no need to change the 3900X, it's great, but I like to tinker. Scoob.
Unfortunately it is both. Nvidia has their green light program(one example: https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/n...board-partners-to-validate-their-designs.html) and so they really messed up. Frankly, for a company that exhaustively supports its products, which indicates that they do pay attention to detail; it might have been on purpose and now their evil scheme has backfired horribly. No way to know that definitively, and yeah a ~100MhZ down clock would solve these problems, but that/this is not what you should expect to have to do with a $700 dollar card. The conspiracy anti-corporate youtubers are suggesting that this scheme was to push more gamers and professionals towards the 1000 mark. Not sure I believe that - I suspect it is more a series of overlapping incentives that is likely leading to this cascading behavior, but, sadly, it is also something that we need to keep in the backs of our minds. as other industries(automotive, home appliances, etc) have tried this kind of scheming before too. It is funny you mention this. The more research I am doing into Zen 2 and PCIe gen 4 the more I am allowing Intel back into my considerations. I am just not sold that PCIe gen 4 is a meaningful improvement for anyone but those in the graphics and server industries. Even Kernal developers just aren't going to see a real improvement and even once games become for optimized for them gen 3 is still plenty fast enough relative to file sizes(even the games that are 50+ GB.) On top of that, the difference between the 10850K or the 10900K and the 3900XT for video editing is not really that much. You would see a real difference if you jumped all the way to a 3950x or a 3960x but below those thresholds... ... The thing that continually causes me to veer away from the high end Intel is their power usage. Which, if all cores are being hit, can be ~300 watts or more. I know that the 3900XT is not THAT much better, but at least I get two more cores? Add in the fact that I do sometimes play games and the best for gaming is the 10 series(at least until Zen 3) and I am, well, I am trying to keep an open mind. It is very, very likely that I will still go with a Ryzen chip, but it is worth pondering.
Well, so it looks like incremental upgrades from AMD as well: Not really surprising. The 5900X was somewhat underwhelming. Intel will likely smoke the 5900x, the 5800x, and the 5600x next spring and I am betting that there will be an "XT" version for Intel's launch which will try to under-cut things in price while offering slightly more performance. The 5950X... well, that is a little different; a stunning CPU. That will likely be very hard to for Intel to beat in terms of cost per watt per hz.
@Scoob do you think that the 2070 S would be enough for 1440P high/ultra settings? Say, 110 - 140ish FPS? You know what, nevermind. I will just wait a little longer... hopefully.
The 5950X actually looks like a bit of a bargain. I mean, it's effectively two 5800X's but it's not double the price. I'd guess though that only one of the CCD's is a true 5800X-class die and the other is perhaps a little weaker. Also, while it's 8 cores per CCX/CCD now, which will really help latency, it's still the exact same communications chip between the dies (CCD's) so there will still be latency penalties for things that cross the CDD's. However, I doubt that'll be an issue in any practical sense. I am keeping an eye on Zen 3 as it was originally where I planned to upgrade. However, my old 2600K system was being...temperamental, so I upgraded early to the 3900X. Of course, this instantly fixed my 2600K which has been running perfectly since I built the new system. IF Zen 3 really performs significantly better in games I play then I'll consider an upgrade. If I get bored one day I'll consider it too lol. @Fractalite - Yes, wait if you can, not long now. I'm still amazed at my 1070 really, it was a "temporary" card while I waited for the 1080Ti to launch, but it exceeded all my expectations. Want new stuffs though, can't help it lol. Thought: If games, or a particular game, genuinely starts making good use of more than six Cores, then the 3800X might prove to be the better pure gaming CPU than the 3900X due to all eight Cores being on the one CCX/CCD not a 6/6 arrangement like the 5900X. I think my 3900X was considered better for gaming vs. the 3700X/3800X at launch but some titles really don't like being spread over two CCD's. Weirdly, from what I've read, latency should be the same between ALL CCX's on my 3900X, irrespective of the die (CCD) they're on. However, setting affinity to just the first CCD (CCX pair) does indeed make some games run a little nicer. Not faster as such, but smoother in general. Go figure. (Caveat: really tired, the above make not make any sense) Scoob.
So after the announcement I got to thinking that the improvements to the new 5000 series do not look like that large a boost in performance. My bet is 15 - 20%(mirroring your observations about some of the similarities that still exist between the 3000 and 5000.) The trick is, I only have a laptop with I7 h-series CPU and a 1060 6GB. I really cannot do much outside of minimalist gaming and word processing. If the improvements are only a touch, and they are extensively aimed at gaming, why not take the plunge now? Part of the launch for me was to see if I would need a new motherboard beyond the x570 and it turns out I will not so I went and fetched: https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-x57... Master-_-13-145-155-_-Product&quicklink=true Which I have had my eye on. I put a large effort into getting the best motherboard without going TOO crazy ($500 and beyond) and that seems like the sweet spot. Something I would like to do is to experiment with m.2 gen 4SSD's in raid and that has the PCIe slots for it. It also has astounding power through-put and excellent audio. Then the aforementioned musing about the differences in the 3000 to 5000 took over and I decided to order a 3900XT. I am not worried about supply issues this time around with AMD - they are being very aggressive with their product build-up so I bet I can get one on launch day, BUT, that means a short time in shipping, and that in turn means I will not have a new computer for a MONTH(minimum.) So I really want to get a move on things, but then the stupid hit. I went to find a graphics card that I felt could comfortably drive my 1440p monitor(which I just received and is sitting next to me *pets*) and that meant the 2080 super. 3900XT + 2080 S means; decent 1440P gaming and then awesome for all the other pursuits I have. The trick is, when I went to check for 2080 Super(s) they were all sold out? The only available are sold by the "Sally's electronics" for 1200 or more and that is infuriating. So, argh. Hence my question about the 2070 Super. This debacle has me thinking, "Well, if I have to wait for a decent GPU might as well wait for the 5000 series." The 3900XT got to me in less than 24 hours so I am sure returning it would not be a problem; I will think on it for a spell. On a related note, it is nice to hear about the 3900x you got. You set the affinity in the bios or some kind of AMD software? I have heard about the 3950x having troubles in games because of its monster core/thread count confusing games, so hearing about this does not surprise me. My brother recently ran into this hilarity with a power-supply problem. Went out and got a new one to replace a unit he thought have perished and then got back home and *poof* the old one started working(actually, it was a slightly loose power connector on the mb.)
I do feel that waiting just a little longer will give you more options. Perhaps something brand new such as a 5900X + 6900 (or 3080, when they get stock lol) OR, get you a proper bargain on what will then be last gen stuff. You can't really lose by waiting...other than the "I wants it now!" frustration factor of course. Regarding affinity, I just wrote a small custom script to launch certain games, basically a .bat file containing: d: cd Steam\steamapps\Common\Empyrion - Galactic Survival\Client start /Affinity FFF Empyrion.exe So, change to d: where my games are change to the folder containing the Empyrion executable run the .exe with an Affinity mask - FFF = 1111 1111 1111 FFF FFF would be all threads...well, you get the idea. My 3900X has 24 threads and FFF is just the first 12 of them, aka CCD0. CCD1 is where I put any diagnostic software, video recording stuff etc. Windows will possibly work ok not doing this sort of thing, but I reckon I get smoother results doing this. That said, I was just playing around when tinkering with this stuff Scoob.
Yeah, and now any possible 2080 Supers all all sold out... So, I guess I have to wait anyways. Blarg. I am betting that AMD CPU supply levels will be okay, but I think I will be forced to go first to appear, first to purchase with GPU's. Which I do not want to do - BUT! These things happen. I guess I will return the 3900XT and wait. God damnit, I DO NOT WANT TO WAIT ANY MORE. On a side note, @jmcburn how are those 5000 series chips looking for you? Gonna take the plunge over Intel? Or wait till Rocket Lake?
