TEASER We are into something...

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by Taelyn, Nov 5, 2021.

  1. Bob [OG]

    Bob [OG] Commander

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    I thought the point of final release was to stop adding anything else. why do we continually add toys to the box when it has a hard enough time using the ones we already have? when is the spread of ketchup and mustard in the console going to be fixed?
     
    #21
  2. Bob [OG]

    Bob [OG] Commander

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    I honestly would prefer a crouch button...
     
    #22
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  3. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    Nobody ever stated that the change from A to V would end adding visual improvements to the game
     
    #23
  4. Bob [OG]

    Bob [OG] Commander

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    to me this is not a visual improvement, this is an addition of more code. making this already fragile House of cards even worse. ahow is making the engine work harder going to be any benefit for performance?
     
    #24
  5. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    Personal Opinions aside....:NewRaisedEyebrow:

    If EGS would follow what @Myrmidon 'suggested/asked' the Game WOULD one day come to a point where many People would have to upgrade there Engines to be able to play EGS ...

    AFAIK...that is neither intended nor wished by the Developers nor the people behind them.

    Besides...a water quality improvement was requested for quite some time now.

    'Move along! Move along!' :NewWink:
     
    #25
  6. Bob [OG]

    Bob [OG] Commander

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    so was crouching...
     
    #26
  7. Bob [OG]

    Bob [OG] Commander

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    apparently sitting in chairs was more important. I'm just not happy that so much time is being put into making the game look better instead of making it run better. it makes very little sense to paint a car that has a broken transmission, unless you don't plan on driving it...
     
    #27
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  8. Bob [OG]

    Bob [OG] Commander

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    just open the console at the game menu when it's first opened. there's errors before anything even loads.
     
    #28
  9. eLLe

    eLLe Captain

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    Such announcements have mutual extremes. On the one hand, players are looking for unimportant things that would only suck up computer resources, and on the other hand, developers, in the absence of ideas of how and what, throw players crumbs that have the same effect on our computers.
    As far as water is concerned, the most important thing is to enable construction and life below the surface. Waves and this serves solely for a visual impression without any benefit to the gameplay and upgrade of the game.
     
    #29
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  10. Taelyn

    Taelyn Administrator
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    The only "errors" that list at the start are the IdMapping ones. There not errors. There are a reminder to you that you are playing a scenario that dont have the custom blocks that your BPs have added.

    Or if you mean the textures ones? There harmless. Its fixed in v1.7

    If its not any of thise 2 then show a example
     
    #30
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  11. Bob [OG]

    Bob [OG] Commander

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    to be fair, I've never actually read the errors. I'm not a fan of deciphering syntax. but I will keep a closer eye on them. the point I'm trying to make though is there are plenty of issues with the game, adding more features will just compound them
     
    #31
  12. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    A lot of people have asked for visual improvements to the game.
    A lot of people have asked for mechanical improvements to the game.
    You can't make everyone happy. I hope they continue to do both, since the game needs improvements to both
     
    #32
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  13. Lichtbold

    Lichtbold Lieutenant

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    And then there's a game called Satisfactory (Unreal engine) which achieves both: it looks alot better and runs alot better at the same time. I hardly hear my fans while Satisfactory is running opposed to Empyrion. Are they comparable? Both allow building huge structures.
     
    #33
  14. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    To make a more accurate analogy, we could say that while some parts of the car are worked on, some guys painted it so when the other parts are fixed then the paint will already be done.

    But it may not even be a case to worry about : if they did rework water, it may not impact performance more than what the previous version used to, and it may even be the other way around. Things can be achieved in efficient and unefficient ways, and flat water can be badly done and negatively impact performance, while "cool water" can be the opposite. These things live on a whole framework that can be worked on at the same time, so until we try it "live" there is no way to know about performance impacts.

    If players were so anxious about performance, they would stop using round blocks and pipes in their builds just because they're "cute". They would use decals instead of LCDs because the devs told us many times the LCDs have significant impact on performance when compared to regular blocks.

    Besides that, the "old water" version already had animations, they are not adding something completely "new" it's just making it different (better looks) :

    NewGame_0_2021-11-07_15-13-32.png

    Old version used a "foamy wave" animated trick, and the "new" system looks rather "procedural" and might not be visible past some distance from the player. If they also adjusted transparency to have better view of the "surface effects" and less of the "long distance view" under water at an angle, then performance impact may even be less. More than the ripple effects it's the amount of terrain visible "underwater" that needs double processing because of transparency. If water surface was still and they made low transparency water, it would have benefitted performance but made it very boring to look at. If surface has cool effects then they can reduce view distance and water still looks cool with less performance impact. Depends how it's done, simply.

    Of course this is purely "wishful thinking" but I tend to believe that the developers know a bit more today than they knew when they made "water version 1.0".

    .
     
    #34
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2021
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  15. Bob [OG]

    Bob [OG] Commander

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    It seems you do not know specifics of gfx processing. we currently have an overlay of of moving 2D sprites. 3D water effects require use of the physics engine of our gfx cards. this is in no way a "small" performance impact. even if they overlay more sprites to mimic 3D it will be adding a performance impact.

    Over 8000 hours and most of my builds have been adjusted to deal with the limitations. For a long time now I have been building function over form. Only 1 is "pretty" and I don't even fly it myself. I fly a disposable army for fear of the game swallowing them. It is a lot less painful to respawn them.

    https://steamcommunity.com/id/Baigum/myworkshopfiles/

    We have a car, truck, jet ski, helicopter type vehicle. The transmission randomly slips gears, the suspension is always uneven, the tires do not match, the throttle sticks, the break pads grind, the interior is very uncomfortable at times, and the convertible top is stuck midway. But hey lets slap a really hot coat of paint and add a heavy hot tub trailer for it to drag around everywhere.

    MY request is to refine function more than visuals. We are still dealing with Antman syndrome from when siting in chairs was important...
     
    #35
  16. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Oh. So they now have auto-sprite generation/ shaping in Unity to fit the procedurally generated water contours ? Cool. When did this happen ?

    Besides that, what does the physics engine have to do with a water shader ?

    You and a few others seem to think you are the only ones who have been "enlightened" on the many problems that plague the game, while us the "merry ignorants" applause when Eleon announces something, whatever it is.

    The fact is that here is a thread announcing work on water effects, and since I and others obviously understand it for what it is, we don't feel an urge to turn it into a suggestion thread covering everything else, nor a lengthy rant or bug report.

    If you open up a suggestion thread to ask for fixes I would be surprised if many players went there and try to divert you from your endeavour by talking about the cool new water effects.

    If you have 8000 hours in game and spent some time reading the forum, surely you already noticed that this kind of complaining about X when Eleon talks about subject Y is completely useless and off topic. The fact that you are not alone doing it does not make it more legitimate.

    But now we know you spent 8000 hours on a crappy, buggy and unoptimized game that makes you unhappy. Ok.

    .
     
    #36
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
  17. Bob [OG]

    Bob [OG] Commander

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    You are assuming my stance. I am offering an opinion on adding something else. You asked for a rant so I obliged. Read my review of the game before assuming cancel culture mentality. I love this game and would prefer more stability over visuals. You are the one taking issue with my words.
     
    #37
  18. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    I don't need to read your review to see what you did here, but I appreciate you are backpedaling now. No assumption is required when reading something like "It seems you do not know specifics of gfx processing" by someone who is not on the developers team. I did not ask for a rant, I don't particularly enjoy discussing with people who say "white" in one post then "black" in the next one.

    So... what about "physics" ? Care to elaborate on this ? Will we have buoyancy or collision now with water, or is it still only visual ?
     
    #38
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
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  19. Bob [OG]

    Bob [OG] Commander

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    Yes you do need to read my review and my words again. You are still assuming my intentions. There was no backpedaling. I offered my destain for adding yet another performance degrading feature that is strictly visual and has more impact on gameplay.

    No I am not a developer or programmer. I am a troubleshooter by trade and try to resolve time wasting issues on a regular basis by offering feedback on improvements. You are looking into this well more than you should in an assumed tone of my words.

    To be fair you did ask for a "better analogy" so I provided a more accurate car description of what I have experienced in this oddverse.

    I am not trying to start fanboy arguments that will waste moderator time. Not all opposing feedback is "negative"

    For more information in gaming physics though:

    https://developer.nvidia.com/physx-sdk

    In short, making the game look better is great as long as it doesn't hurt gameplay. I play on the largest multiplayer server this game has for many years. We constantly have several issues hindering performance due to the amount of computations required to keep up with neverending data exchanges.
     
    #39
  20. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    And I want wheeled vehicles and better controls for the motorbike. And crouch and stealth too. They told us they would allow editing and making our own skyboxes, and we're still waiting. Animations suck. Player is skating over the ground, not "walking". Etc.

    Other than that, I think you have better chances by offering your services as advisor to Eleon, so when they make some crazy decision to re-work water then you can put your veto and have them focus on the "good stuff".

    No but seriously... you're not really offering feedback on the water thing here but on all other aspects, as a challenge to their decisions. You know it doesn't work like that, right ?

    I simply wrote, in my 1st reply up here, that we can not do much more than wait to see if there will be impact on performance, and that it's premature to make a fuss because X and Y are not even fixed yet but they work on frills and icing instead. These comments come out regularly on any annoucement thread, and usually from the same people who look like they will never be satisfied. So I'm just trying to sweeten the pill here, and you picked my post apart like I offended you in some way, plus telling me I know nothing about gfx processing and "it's related to physics" and whatnot.

    Now it's really ignoring who I am to expect me not to react...
     
    #40
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
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