Mode: Creative Mode: Singleplayer SEED-ID: Global: 769038 Playfield: 908075 Reproducibility: Always Severity: Minor Type: Ship Controller / Flight Physics Summary: SV's "sinking"/ Losing Altitude incorrectly Description: Noticed on multiple SV builds, multiple planets (i.e. different gravity levels)... when hovering stationary, the SV will start to sink toward the ground/lose altitude. I *thought* this might have been a result of recent changes as to what is taken into account as to the mass of the vessel for flight physics purposes. That said, I created a purpose built SV with WAY overpowered down thrust (particularly on a 0.93 grav world). Flying it to a POI to raid, I noticed something that escaped my observation the other times it happens - it is only occurring when the SV is directly above a structure, or so it appears. Logs and savegame available on my DropBox. Video and commentary embedded below: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nao614qnaau3qeu/AAC-3dKsHz18yfgjC4fzYY-ua?dl=0
It is not SV's alone but they are the most visible who sinks. Also they do not only sink on Planets with higher Gravity but on such with 0.81 and even on 0.69 ones. The CV that I use has 3 times more thrust than necessary for a ship of his size and still loosing altitude while hovering - that can not only be the added weight for the fuel.
A new flight behavior was added in the A10 release (power curve bias tied to ground speed) to simulate that regardless of the aircraft type (rotorcraft, fixed wing, etc) it takes more power to hold a hover / fly at slow air speeds. If you have "I" braking enabled the expectation is that the ship should hover itself if it can; if holding down the spacebar lifts the machine a pretty good case can be made that auto-brake got broken by the new runwaysAreNowAthing feature since the machine has sufficient power to lift out of ground effect without any lateral motion .. you holding down the space bar should get the same result as the ships computer holding it down (via "I") on your behalf.
If my CV would have been loaded up until its ceiling with 15kt and THAN slowly sinking I would say: hey! I am too heavy! But only by its own weight, dry so to speak, slowly loosing altitude Meter for Meter just while hanging in the Air... Here is the CV I am using: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1674959390
Yup .. I just meant the chunk of code that's causing this was intentionally added in 10.0 (I think) ... unless there was a reason they decided to implement "if the user doesn't enter any control input and you aren't on the ground yet let y = y-0.01" because they don't like hands-off hover then not being able to hover anymore is probably an unintentional side-effect of how the velocity power curve thing was implemented; you could be seeing round off or something like that that forces a down bias.
Hey Larry, Thanks for the heads up on that - I just re-reviewed patch notes on A10 and couldn't see any reference to new flight behaviours - are you able to link that for me? To be clear, it's not that I don't believe you - I do - I'd just like to read the write up for myself... not to mention see where my eyesight and/or cognitive ability is failing me! As to your point, that would definitely get me thinking that the new code is borking something as well - in particular, if the idea is to prevent a "hands-free" hover (which makes little sense to me if the ship design has the weight/thrust ratio to do so), then why is it only occurring when over a structure - not sure if you saw it in that video, but I could hover no problem when over normal terrain. I would also wonder why the engines actually audibly cut out when over the POI! I'm all for more complex flight models - and my kingdom for the inclusion of lift achieved by wings (tied to atmo density of course)... I might actually use them if they served any such purpose... lol.
At the risk of being accused of being Herbert West, Necrothread Reanimator, I reached the conclusion based on a combo of a comment made by Taelyn in the "I'm angry and going to rage quit forever (or until the next major release)" thread (https://empyriononline.com/threads/...chase-a-game-with-the-eleon-logo.48780/page-3) and an earlier comment that I can't find where it implied that runways were going to become something to consider. I think it was on one of the "Krampus-Santa has a surprise for you; guess what's about to happen" threads. I use prefab 1C as my go to early game survey SV and starting with the A10 it could no longer jump up with just the spacebar- you needed to get a running start. Since you can run in any WASD direction to get that running start it looks like the underlying function is related to velocity rather than actual lifting surfaces or anything like that. (added after) Oh! It only happens when near a structure? That could be a nerf like "ifNearStructure y=y-0.01" that was done to make using an SV to steal stuff from floating aliens more difficult. No way to know.
Have you tried it with a near to empty fuel tank? That changed (the weight of fuel in tanks is now added to the mass calculations).
Good call, 1 unit of biofuel and it's just like it used to be; I promise not to attempt reverse engineering for a month!
I have noticed this as well and I think it might even be an "auto landing/docking" feature. When hovering over a base it gently lowers the vessel for a soft touchdown, however I find it to be highly inconvenient whilst maneuvering within a hangar.
Hey Lithoboli, I had a similar thought - I couldn't find any mention of it in patch notes though... I actually think that an auto-dock feature is not a bad idea... In my larger builds I usually install a completely separate set of "docking thrusters" and a single dedicated RCS for this purpose (works rather well actually, much finer control and I think a bit more realistic) and put them on a signal logic trigger. That said the "over a structure auto engage" is an issue (if that's what this is)... as you point out, in a hangar its a problem. It also presumes that all ships dock vertically and ventrally, which they don't. A number of my builds dock on the aft - a few I've done in the past dock on the dorsal side of the ship. Based on the way the behaviour presents itself, I'm thinking it's a bug... but you raise some good points regardless. My final "2 cents" would be if an "auto-dock" feature is to be implemented, it really should be on a button in CP and/or hotkey.
@Pantera , Hey Pantera - I noticed you moved this from Experimental Branch>Bugs to the "main" Bugs section - should I be posting bugs here in the main section instead of the Experimental one?
I moved it here because you reported it in B2526 which is the public branch meaning it's not exclusive to the experimental release which at the time was the same build as public. I'll check this soon.
Thought I might add some observations I've had with this problem. It only happens to me when I'm in 3rd person. You can see this clearly happening. The Polaris trading station. The large one on the planet when it shows. The loading dock has panels you have to fly over to drop down inside the bay. At least for my sv. Anyways it's when I cross the opening of the hanger bay that my sv starts to sink. It will keep sinking until you cross completely then you can hit up and for me it will stop sinking. Yet if I back out of the hanger again the moment I hit the opening of the hanger I start to sink. So if you need to see this happening. Check out that hanger.
