DEV BLOG Empyrion Galactic Survival: Leaving Alpha & Early Access

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by Hummel-o-War, Jul 16, 2020.

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  1. SGP Corp

    SGP Corp Captain

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    Probably nothing close to some other long time players but I got 1.5k here, all SP (tbh I would cut about 10% or 150hrs for simply being afk)
     
    #181
  2. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    5.5k - about 100 hours in MP
     
    #182
  3. RazzleWin

    RazzleWin Rear Admiral

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    I would say I fall into this category now. When I first got here I played pvp with my mates. They are all gone now. So I would say at least 95% of my play time has been single player. So with 6422 hours in the game. I think I count as a single player now.:)
     
    #183
  4. elmo

    elmo Captain

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    Are there people that have over 1k hours in just single player?

    Just about 6000 hrs between SP and coop
     
    #184
  5. Dead8Eye

    Dead8Eye Captain

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    i have over 11.000 hours ingame. empyrion is my favorited game since 05.august 2015 :) 1 day before my b-day XD

    so many years of empyrion and blueprints and bugs xD and screaming. now, 5 years later, eleon game studios takes the step into the beta. <3
    love it~
     
    #185
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  6. RazzleWin

    RazzleWin Rear Admiral

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    WOW! Mate and your only a Captain on the forum! They should give you the honorary title of "Ancient Survivor"
     
    #186
  7. Sofianinho

    Sofianinho Captain

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    Track record ? they made one game so far, and the development of EGS went far beyond the initial scope of the game.
    Were you around when people were begging for CV to CV docking ? now you can dock anything to anything.
    Because a tech demo is just that, a demo, it doesn't have to work with any other system, the fact that it works in an isolated environement deosn't mean it will work in a rather complex game.
    Yeah let's ask them Star Citizen level features, it's only fair for a 20 bucks game.
    That's unfortunate but the game can't do it all, that's why I look forward to a new game with new possibilities.
    I was one of the people who pushed for bigger planets, and they are a hell of a lot bigger than the old "planets", some people even complain that they're too big now.
    Engine limitations mate, again new game new possibilities.
    See above.
    What do you mean ?
    They said they will work on that next, maybe it's not considered a major feature because it will work exactly as it does now but rather than being UI based, it will be attached to a physical block, so it' more of a rework really.
    This is prime example why starting anew is needed, they can't keep tweaking and twisting and changing and fiddeling indefinitely with what is already a hot mess.

    Trying to fix something by adding layer upon layer of rules and aritrary limitaions only makes it worst, sometimes you have to take what you've learned and start fresh !
     
    #187
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  8. Jawatraders

    Jawatraders Lieutenant

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    It would great if they could start over with an engine that could handle all the ideas they want to implement. Unfortunately I'm not sure if there's any publicly available engine that could
     
    #188
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  9. JayStrider

    JayStrider Lieutenant

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    I guess opinions can vary. I bought this game on sale a couple weeks ago for $8 and I've already played it more and enjoyed it more than Witcher 3. A game which many people consider one of the best ever made. I personally feel like EGS is criminally underrated. I still can't believe I've gotten much out of a game with such a low price.
     
    #189
  10. fireborn

    fireborn Ensign

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    I dont even understand why people are mentioning crouching so much....
    Its such a stupid thing for devs to waste time on...

    There is no mechanical reason in the game to crouch for.. What would you even do with it?
    They would have to design new blocks, puzzles and tweak enemies just to make this have some impact on gameplay.
    And for what? whyyyyyyy! lol.

    Just wanted to say that cuz like 4 people mentioned crouching in this thread...
     
    #190
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  11. Israel

    Israel Commander

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    Well i think that some of the major nails in the coffin where the introduction of CPU and the new flying system. This along with bad performance issues caused alot of veteran players to leave especially in pvp. The CPU+flight system broke about 90% of pve blueprints and like 100% of pvp blueprints. They made many enemies with this mistake. I mean what person in their right mind thinks abusing their playerbase in this way will make them allies? Like think deeply of the consequences of what your doing before you do them, more so if you are a developer.

    I had some of my most fun times during alpha 5 to 10 in this game. After the CPU they ruined this game. They restricted ever more the creative freedoms of builders by forcing them to build smaller and smaller. Before that it was that you had to watch your class size, then it was the block limits, then with cpu it was thruster restrictions, and they have to be placed at a certain place for them to work right, and even then they worked half as good as the old flight system. Now you also have to watch out not to put too many or too little or no rcs's or the whole thing will be out of wack. Its crazy. Now you also have to watch even more the kinds of designs you build for pvp because the pvp meta is ever changing and changing. This is ridiculous! What a fail!..

    I vote we go back to the better days of alpha 5 and 10 or take the best of the two and make a hybred and if this works try and add the new vast universe.

    Persnally i think something that Rexx suggested about a year ago will be the best for this game.

    Rexx said: Personally or maybe a question to the Community:
    What do you think of the mechanic to have a Dual-System of Voxel vs Static Ships?
    Let’s say in your home basis you can build your ship as right now.
    But once you click somewhere “bake” or “materialize”, all the Voxel blocks get calculated fix with colliders, hitpoints and resources.

    So in a fight you would fly with static models (like the Space Drones). If you damage a ship a global healthbar (like in Fractured Space) would decrease. Once “destroyed” (healthbar = 0) the ship can’t move anymore and you can loot it and “dematerialize”.

    I roughly discussed it with Eleon and the performance gain would be over 10 times or so.
    https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/hws-config-gameplay-changes-part-2/19758/23

    To me this means we can have similar ship fighting battles like Star Wars Battlefront 2 but with the full freedom to design ships however we want. The main reason i like Empryoin is because i can design ships however i want and fight them in battle. Not so much after the CPU Abomination rekt the game. Duel Universe uses Voxel construction, maybe Empyrion can use this to evolve and move forward with this which also greatly improves performance at the same time. They also determine class size by cores and not but this strange made up CPU nonsense.
    https://dualuniverse.gamepedia.com/Construct

    https://dualuniverse.gamepedia.com/Building_Zone

     
    #191
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
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  12. RazzleWin

    RazzleWin Rear Admiral

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    Well mate nothing is stopping you. Download the older version and have a ball. I started a new version 6 game the other day. Outside of making nostalgic photos of it. I myself would not want to go back to those days.

    I too might not be happy with some things CPU being one of them. Or how mass effect speed in space. But those things are still fixable. Alright so I'm old and getting closer to my use by date. But there is no way would I say I don't like the why cars are today, let's go back to the horse and buggy days.

    So mate knock yourself out and go play the older versions all you like. But please stop making it sound like gloom and doom and this is the end for EGS it's not. It's just one more step in it's future. As long as the devs are still supporting this game then so am I :)
     
    #192
  13. Brimstone

    Brimstone Rear Admiral

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    That one's not entirely correct. There is a speed cap made necessary by the engine limits, and pretty much everyone understands that. The problem is the mass limiting how close you can get to that speed, instead of reducing acceleration and making it take longer and more fuel to get there. That implementation, which has nothing to do with game limits, is what players hate

    If Eleon does continue development as stated, and especially if they fix these issues, then I might consider that next project. If they don't, well it was fun while it lasted but I don't think I'd be getting onboard

    I think more than anything else, they're shooting themselves in the foot for new players no matter how much they keep going on the game, because as much fun as it can be, there are pretty few out there that are going to see this as a release-level game
     
    #193
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  14. Sofianinho

    Sofianinho Captain

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    That's the one we're talking about, the mass reducing max speed is indeed an aberration.
     
    #194
  15. EternalHeathen

    EternalHeathen Captain

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    As much as I may disagree with you and your point, gotta say, credit where credit is due, that picture is hilarious.
     
    #195
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  16. SGP Corp

    SGP Corp Captain

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    Yeah, Unity 3d is a pretty solid engine with over a decade of development and been used by a number of noteworthy studios like Obsidian and on well received games like Subnautica. Ambitious open world games always seem to push the limits of whats possible with the game engines we have and seem to be a decade to early for that technology.
     
    #196
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  17. Brimstone

    Brimstone Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, sorry, very few of the issues in the game are Unity problems.. Single-output recipes is about it.
     
    #197
  18. Inappropriate

    Inappropriate Captain

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    Yes, track record. As in this game as a track record. For future games. Track record. As in the past serves as a track record for the present. As in the present serves as a track record for the future. Track record. Hope that clears it up for you.

    Why would I waste money on a second game from a developer whose only other game was left in such a questionable state?

    Aslo I don't care about the initial scope of the game. Only what the scope is now.

    Yes I was. You seem to have and interesting definition of "anything" though.

    Thats on them for lacking creativity. Creativity is the single most important aspect of programing. No amount of syntactical or semantic knowledge will help you without creativity. There is literally no such thing as a problem that is too complex to work around if you are creative enough. Creativity is what separates us from computers and our ability to reason is what separates us from all other life on this planet.

    Programing is an art and don't ever let anybody tell you otherwise. Those ones and zeros when combined with creativity and cold hard logic can take you place that would boggle the minds of any artist.

    I don't code for a living but I do code because its a wonderful creative outlet. Nothing quite compares to being able to take a step back and say to yourself "I made this and it is good". I'm not sure if it means anything to you, but yes, the wording there is very deliberate.

    Lets ask for Minecraft level features, its only fair for a java based, 20 bucks game, that was originally developed by one person.

    Not that Minecrafts chunk based loading system doesn't have its issues. But still.

    Lets ask for Minecraft level features, its only fair for a java based, 20 bucks game that, was originally developed by one person.

    Not that I think Minecrafts water would look good in this context. But still.

    They only think that the worlds are too big because the of the insanely low speed cap brought on by the rendering short coming of the game. This is entirely a data streaming problem.

    I don't think you really understand what it is a game engine does. The game engine is nothing more then a series of wrapper function that developer use to speed up and simplify (game) development. You could accomplish the exact same thing with the exact same failings and "limitations" if you wrote the entire game from scratch in c++. These are not engine limitations. They are failures to utilize the engine to work around issues of there own making. They could use the best game engine in the world and still run into the same problem because they failed to implement things properly.

    And just to be clear I'm not advocating rewriting the entire game in c++. Or writing any game completely in c++ for that matter. That would be like trying to reinvent the wheel. And completely ridicules.

    LOD is "Level of Detail". They use it a bit but its rather unsophisticated and half assed.

    Your right, the factory doesn't need to be a major feature. In fact it's such a minor thing that it could have easily been tackled along with logistics. But it wasn't. Instead they decided to leave both the factory and the logistics system unfinished for no apparent reason. I'm sorry but that doesn't fill me with faith for their competence and I don't waste money on developers that I deem incompetent. Its why I no longer buy Blizzard or Bethesda games.

    So rip it out in its entirety and replace it. German keyboards do have a backspace key I presume. Its all just on/off states. There is no such thing as code that is set in stone. No need to start a new project for that. You get bonus points for coding in an automatic conversion to the new system when old blueprints are loaded in. But they won't do that because "engine limitations". And "reasons". Can't forget those "reasons".

    --- Edit ---

    You sir and/or madam shall live forever in infamy. Not for what you have said, no, but for that AMAZING picture. I shall spread it far and wide so that all may know the name @RadsK99 !!!
     
    #198
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
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  19. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    This is an important point. I hinted at this some time ago, and the main interest was performance gain where most needed. Rexxus and Hummel were part of this discussion in this thread :

    https://empyriononline.com/threads/...and-si-for-ships-but-not-like-you-think.9938/

    Now we all know how most players like to read entire threads... lol... and that's unfortunate because when reading the whole topic it becomes clear that the developers had an interest, but see how some players just held on to their own little idea of what "their" game should be.

    Performance gains are for everyone. Knowledge how to do it is not.

    And yes, the Unity engine, and any other engine, has limits. Of course. And computers also have limits. But the main point is that scripts are high level programming and can't really be "optimized", they only make calls to the lower layers which determine performance. This is the "limit" of the Engine -- "Mono Develop"... not the best racing car around.

    As for CPU, it can be modded and tweaked, like so many other things, so I hardly see a problem if anyone who has more brain power than a lightbulb can edit the text files and render these "monstrous features" insignificant.

    Players did not want anything to do with "blocks merging" like what Rexxuxs and others discussed. So welcome CPU. But the majority of players still don't see the point why MASS limits MAX SPEED even if we paint huge red arrows towards the explanation. Because they don't want to see the answers. Does it make sense "realism-wise" ? Of course not. So why ? Give explanation, players fall back in their mental loop.

    At some point I fully understand the developers to just go ahead and ignore these players. They gave them almost all core features they wanted, to the point the game struggled to run smooth. They see the problem firsthand, and are being asked to solve it, but they shall not change a thing, or even worse they will get criticized if they don't make everything hi-rez and shiny.

    Sometimes I wish people would be more inclined to hide their ignorance.
     
    #199
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  20. Israel

    Israel Commander

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    Nice and thanks for the link. To think this thread was there 3 years ago. I do wish this kind of idea was explained in a more interesting why like how i did with the battlefront 2 video as an example. I think then people would have been much more interested in entertaining the idea.
     
    #200
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