Feedback Required EXP 1.8 - New Game Start: SKILLON (Barren Starter Moon)

Discussion in 'Experimental Features Discussion' started by Hummel-o-War, May 17, 2022.

  1. boolybooly

    boolybooly Commander

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    What about daylight dependent increase in sandy biome radiation? Would that work in Unity? The temps drop at night so I dont see why not rad too.

    As for too easy, it depends what the player is looking for and what trials you want to inflict upon them. IMHO its just needs to be an incentive to find shelter, over the blissful Akua start. So something which will eventually kill the avatar if the player does not respond, like the sneaky w radiation in Asimov's Robots and Empire, it injects urgency but does not need to be a crazy time trial.

    It cant really be a time trial as I feel it should be just about doable with hardest settings including slower production rate which I have not tried but suspect this makes a big difference. If you set the start up as a radiation countdown then its going to be slack at easier settings and vary wildly depending on RND radiation which cannot be avoided. So I feel the challenges should include mechanics comprehension tests, though there is scope for time trial gameplay on hardest settings with higher RND rad.

    IMHO patching up Opportunity is a fun and satisfying mechanics challenge, because it a bit tricky to figure out but easy to do using N and a carbon composite block and it works. If you are under too much pressure then its inconvenient but if you have enough time it becomes a little triumph.

    Its a shame there is no benefit to high radiation, so no incentive not to seed scum until you get an easy one. What if solar panels gave more power in high radiation zones? Then there would be a reason to live with it, even exploit it by putting panels in the desert say and base in a nearby less radiated biome.

    Along those lines, I was wondering if its possible to make direct sunlight more irradiating and even heating so if you stand in shadow under trees you reduce radiation and also maybe temps. It would mean a nocturnal/burrowing strategy but digging is a big appeal of the game.

    A few thoughts. :)
     
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  2. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    Yes, something like that. I can up the RAD per biome, but leave it to 4 RAD in general.
     
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  3. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    Radioactivity per daytime is not possible - just per biome.

    Agree on most suggestions regarding effects of RAD. :)
     
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  4. BushiNeko

    BushiNeko Lieutenant

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    The adding of the resource spawns to craft some radiation coping meds is a great. It doesn't feel cheaty to find and make them.

    The dropping of level to make decor is a plus, especially from an RP feeling side.
    The SHOWER is of course great for helping all radiation related places / exposures.
    But.. ( always one! ) it does feel ' cheaty ' still being able to construct something like that with no resource use for use.
    Even in the desert with solar showers there was a cost, water of course.
    Personal feeling: Water should be needed to ' power ' shower. Plus it creates one more step in the supply demand chain. My two cents. ;)

    Now overall on decor. Love it. It is great to be able to add some useless blocks for aesthetic, or the fact that a bed can be made in reality with a few scraps of cloth. Nice to have a place to crash and kill time / rest ;)

    Resources to assist in situations big plus.

    Game bug issues so far on new start for update = 0

    gimme' a few minutes. I ll break something for sure.

    P.S. The scrappers are neat to see zipping around.
    Dare I say.. cute?
     
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  5. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    I started on this planet fresh with Exp II and have found it generally pretty easy, some of which may be down to RNG being on my side. Firstly, and surprisingly, radiation wasn't really a problem for me. The immediate environs were 4.0 rads, but the accumulation was sufficiently slow that I had a shower built on a BA before it became a critical issue.

    The starting location for me was a small hilly area, surrounded by open desert with hills in the distance. I did not venture from this area for some time, finding ample food and other collectable plants. Food was not even close to being a problem. There was also a decent amount of resources, with Iron rocks fairly populous along with Silicon, and Copper being quite rare. I had enough though. There were only a handful of trees on the hill, but these generally yielded between 5 and 10 Logs each and there were also lots of fibre-bearing plants too.

    Using Wooden Blocks I got a decent little base set up very early. It ran on Solar, backed up by a Generator and Small Fuel Tank - Biofuel powered everything. I was able to refrigerate all the perishables I'd collected before any were spoilt, along with the many energy bars I'd been crafting and keeping in my suit constructor.

    As I'm a pretty experienced player and knew what I was doing, I'd say this start offered only a minor challenge. However, I was focused and kept on-task not to be caught out and built a BA quickly. I had no cause to venture far during the very early-game, as the hill had everything I needed, as long as I rationed and didn't waste materials crafting stuff that wasn't relevant yet. I did make a slight miscalculation on O2 consumption - I was using one unit of O2 every four seconds when standing still, which seemed a bit faster than I recall - and crafting the O2 Generator and having it generate the first O2 bottle took longer than I expected. That was my mistake though, I had previously built items blocking the suit constructor queue so things weren't building when I thought they were lol.

    Once established with a Base (safe from rads, O2 and a shower equipped) O2 being generated (two generators), Portable Constructor making BioFuel and with ample food refrigerated, I was in a strong position to explore. I built a bike - useless in the hill starting area, but great for the open desert - and went from there, exploring, looting wrecks and generally mapping out my surroundings. I found, restored and remodelled the wrecked hoverbike but it really didn't perform well at all, so recycled it and built a basic SV.

    During my exploration with the SV, I found several crashed CV's, recovering rare materials (Flux Coils and the like) using the T1 Multi-tool I had. Sure, lots of resources wasted vs. a Deconstructor, but it's all I had. I also found a particularly device-rich (many thrusters) CV wreck during my travels. Using the materials I'd salvaged, along with stuff from resource-rock mining, I crafted the basics needed for a CV, Pilot's seat and generators. I took these in the SV to the rich CV wreck. I proceeded to build my own CV quite early using mostly salvage from the wreck, along with those items I'd crafted. It took a few back and forth trips to my Base before I had the most bare-bones CV flyable, at which point I took it back to base to build further.

    This start, due to several CV Wrecks, enabled me to build a "mobile base" CV very early-on - I've not even been into space yet. I'm still working on it, more for fun as it's fully functional as a base, but am just migrating to it as my new base. I'll keep the BA "live" with O2 generators deployed so I can pop back if needed to top up.

    I've had fun with this start, my experience with the game has made it "easy" in some ways, but that really is just experience paying off methinks. Very enjoyable.

    Edit: Just wanted to add that I strongly agree with @BushiNeko regarding showers needing water to operate. A long time ago now I suggested the addition of a "Water Tank" as a resource used by things like Showers, Toilets, Food Processors and Grow Plots. I think that would add to the general survival element with an additional resource needed.
     
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    Last edited: May 25, 2022
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  6. BushiNeko

    BushiNeko Lieutenant

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    20220525150130_1.jpg Annoying issue
    Glass remains in place on salvaging.

    It lingers, a ghost of the former window it was.
     
    #46
  7. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Know issue apparently - I see it myself consistently with all L-Class window types plus the glass-style railings. I've not tried it with S-Class Windows though, so don't know if they're also affected.
     
    #47
  8. boolybooly

    boolybooly Commander

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    I am trying this on hard settings, ie fast food oxy, high rad temp, slow build.

    It is just about doable but not at all easy.

    One of the things getting in my way is no way to cancel the suit constructor object.

    If I set it to build a portable constructor or oxygen generator it takes ages and I cannot dismiss it or change qeue order so if I want to convert water into oxygen during the build I cant, so the avatar dies.

    Just a thing.
     
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  9. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    I think that's where planning comes in. On this world, it's advisable to get an O2 Generator crafted ASAP and place it down even if I cannot be fuelled yet - unless you get a luck find in a wreck. Then queue up a portable Constructor while gathering Fibre and Wood, then get it making Fuel as soon as you can. I was a little late getting the O2 Generator crafted, so had a close call with O2 levels. No deaths so far though.

    Oh, perhaps it's a bug, but Showers on Bases don't need power to run. So a simple Base with just the starter block and a shower on it should suffice to remove those rads very early game. I still think Showers should require Water as well as power to run though...maybe one day.
     
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  10. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    Thanks for the playthrough feedback! Will look into a few changes for EXP3.

    @Windows etc > please consider a bug report, if not done yet. :)
     
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  11. BushiNeko

    BushiNeko Lieutenant

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    Starting on Barren for new playthrough
    Attained orbit again finally.
    EVERY asteroid no matter what marked produces ICE and only ICE.
    Exit game. Reload = no change.
    Back to save before leaving moon = no change.

    upload_2022-5-27_8-51-8.png
    20220527084924_1.jpg

    KNOWN IN BUGS / REPORT from me added also
     
    #51
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  12. Andre Merrick

    Andre Merrick Commander

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    Started a new game on Akua, and went inside the Bunker... killed the 3 bots... and when taking one of their loot.. Spare Parts.. it popped up a "You found a quest item... " It got stuck on that.. and now anytime I find a log to add to the 17 logs you have to find.. it won't add them to that Archive list. I can't force it to notice them by putting them back into the bin I found them... it just ignores them..

    I must say.. I'm not fond of the new start. There are no dangers at all.. you can calmly stroll around and do whatever you want.. you find a hover vessel or a small vessel at numerous locations. It was much more fun when you had drones everywhere and you had to actually survive.
     
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  13. boolybooly

    boolybooly Commander

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    OK the 4.0R outside starter zone reduces Opportunity's early role on the hardest settings because it is a shelter from radiation with a decor block but getting there quickly makes radiation score much worse so you are better off not going. Primary objective becomes DIY or at a pinch grab HV to block radiation and hunt promethium.

    I have tested this and if you are playing with hardest settings (FAST food FAST oxy HIGH impact SLOW constructor), going to Opportunity is more trouble than its worth. Its not possible to gather there except drone mine rock and there is a bug blocking early gathering on the way to Opportunity I reported elsewhere.
    https://empyriononline.com/threads/1-8-crosshairs-not-targeting.99894/

    On the hardest settings you have to plan the oxy build to the second to survive. After several attempts, this has to be done in the starter area and the plan does not include the Opportunity. It can include a later dash for the HV on a bike once prepped, to go hunting for prometheum. Once that is done Opportunity offers the chance of a shower with a core change and multitool which is nice but it does not offer a viable early refuge.

    Its comparably cost effective and easier to build a new base in the starter area and add a shower now we can make decor in the portable constructor. Also its pretty easy to factory build something small with a shower in it ASAP, like "Wooden Shack" below.

    The 4.0R zone is dangerous and deters using Opportunity, which becomes less an opportunity, more a poisoned chalice/hut! It does make you think though and I kind of like it, makes the desert planet kind of mean.

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2813336500
    workshop link
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2813345734
     
    #53
    Last edited: May 27, 2022
  14. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    I'm actually not a fan of the free starter bases that are available, so I basically pretend they don't exist. In my current game (Exp II start) game, IIRC, there was one of the starter bases a few km away, out in the open desert (dunes?) area. However, the actual starting area - low hills for me - was actually far far more attractive with ample starting resources. Using that free base would have given an initial advantage, but ultimately a bad idea due to location.

    @boolybooly - are you saying it was only 4 rads for you outside of the starter zone? For me, the entire planet was 4 rads, including the "crash site" starting area.

    Thought: it would be good if the free bases were only present on perhaps the easiest difficulty setting. Also, I've found there are lots of them dotted around the entire planet, I've just been raiding them for Grow Plots (for later use) and Solar Panels and Capacitors. I just need to set it to my faction - no need to use a core to claim it - and salvage the parts I want. I did find one of the starter bases - a familiar model - that appeared to be a derelict version, no Core, no devices, just blocks, that would be quite cool to do up and inhabit. Free bases that already have a Player Core and other useful starting devices seem too generous for harder settings though.

    I think one of the good things about these new starts is we're not hassle by Drone attacks - which is great for a new player learning the ropes. This allows the player more time to get set up with the only dangers on this planet being ensuring O2 supply early - simple with the cheaper O2 Generator crafting recipe - not taking too many rads before you have a BA with Shower - do we need a mobile (HV) option for the nomads among us? - then keeping the BA and O2 Generators fuelled. Longer-term, the ample wrecks enable the player to leave the planet for the first time in a CV.
     
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  15. boolybooly

    boolybooly Commander

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    Yes. Starter zone seed 864673 is 2.5R.

    Custom start with high impact set for radiation and slow constructor (fast oxy + food), testing these to help with experimental feedback.

    I tested three options on the same seed. Least rads taken before shower was spawning a factory build 0.6 contaminated. Biking to HV made 0.8. Building my own base from scratch 0.7.

    4.0R start zone on those settings would kill the avatar IMHO unless you know different?
     
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  16. BushiNeko

    BushiNeko Lieutenant

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    @boolybooly
    Having tested a bit in both normal and hard your correct.
    I found in normal not such a burden. In fact I arrived pretty well stocked and alive. The only real ' need ' was to get the power up.
    Hard.. your just as well off to do your best on your own. Yup Yup.
     
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  17. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    The quest system should be fixed in the next EXP (It is not 100% done/fixed yet, but we are getting there ;)

    On the challenge: There is currently an issue with some of the dangerous AI, like Raptors, not reacting to the player. Other than that: Akua is the "safe start" mainly for beginners (as described in the game screen). If yo are NOT new to the game, Masperon will (become) the combat challenge you might be searching for. ;)

    The HV and SV preplaced will be removed as well.
     
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  18. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator
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    Great to see you guys trying this in HARD mode - perfect feedback!

    In my idea, Skillon should be "nightmarish difficulty" on HARD start .. but doable for experienced players. So any feedback about that is VERY welcomed if it is going into that direction.

    The idea is that (As well as on Ningues and Masperon) the crashsize serves as kind of a "quieter zone". Not safe, but a spot where you can "start" whereas outside this zone, the survival must be "earned".

    I think, reading from yours and others, that is going into that direction.

    Two changes I am currently considering
    - Setting the "free POI bases" to Alien faction so you need to actually destroy the core
    - The RAD might be increased further outside the crashsite OR on specific spots/biomes.

    What does everybody think about that?
     
    #58
  19. boolybooly

    boolybooly Commander

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    You have about 50 seconds to play with on oxy build for the fast oxy, slow build start IMHO, no more than that and you have to get the build order just right, 5x food bar, constructor ASAP, start 2x biofuel ASAP, 2x oxygen generators, fuel these ASAP, keep suit constructor available for water>oxygen.

    If you want it more nightmarish (cant believe I am suggesting how to make it harder!) then salvage drones could be aggressive as I have seen these on all starts of 1.8 II Skillon but I would suggest just melée attack, not ranged attack and slow enough to outrun so you can take them with the starter gun and maybe get a fuel drop in return which would turn the nightmare into a bonus... if you win! Currently they drop almost useless items.

    Funny idea would be if they target your (indestructible) constructor and drop pod and try to dismantle it, (due to their salvage AI). As long as they turn on the player when you fire on them. Needs to make a noise as well, hopefully sparks too, to get the player's attention. Gives you a reason to use attack mode and to boost health after landing.

    Extra radiation might apply in spider nests. Maybe they like it, maybe it keeps them warm? Or does it already, cant remember. POI cores not a big issue because you cant really use them at critical survival juncture, IMHO variety is spice, better if a few are easy to hack, some harder.

    Would be good if the rate of repeat for the radiation noise indicated the ambient radiation, so longer interval in lower radiation. Currently it is a 5 second interval no matter what. Would be good if the interval was more like 20 seconds at 2.1R and got shorter to 5 secs in 4.0R and closer to continuous in >8.0R. Mathwise that would be play interval = default-time-interval(40)/(2x radiation-count). Is that possible or too much calculating?

    Lastly there is still a 3 for the price of 2 exploit on charging oxygen generators from cold. If you transfer 2x fuel at the same time the gen is fuelled but both the fuels are visible and can be transferred back to the player, meaning you can charge multiple O-gens with the same 2 fuels over and over again. Using this exploit is not possible on the hard start as you dont have time to get 2 fuels but it can be used later, or on easier settings. FYI
     
    #59
    Last edited: May 28, 2022
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  20. Pach

    Pach Captain

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    I love everything boolybooly just said.
     
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