PLZ Retest and Re-Report HV Behavior when Cargo added under Weight & Volume

Discussion in 'Fixed (Read Only)' started by JetsetUK, Feb 6, 2019.

  1. JetsetUK

    JetsetUK Ensign

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    Mode: Survival
    Mode: Singleplayer

    SERVER NAME: N\A
    SEED-ID: 741201

    If applicable:
    MODIFIED PLAYFIELDS: No

    Reproducibility: Always
    Severity: Major

    Type: HV Behavior

    Summary: HV Behavior when Cargo added under Weight & Volume

    Description: When you load a Container Controller array with stuff it causes the HV to tilt to one side, the closer you get to the Volume Limit the more severe the tilt.

    Steps to Reproduce:
    Console Seed data:
    Initializing with custom id:
    Local player 76561198097167334/'JetsetUK'
    SWS.QueryItems: Requesting AllBlueprintsSubscr page 2
    SWS.QueryCompleted for AllBlueprintsSubscr page 2
    SWS.QueryItems: Requesting AllBlueprintsSubscr page 3
    SWS.QueryCompleted for AllBlueprintsSubscr page 3
    Voxelizing took 528ms, voxels=200312, shapes=1087, mem=1054kB
    GameOptions: Using dataset 'SP, Survival' for condition 'Survival, SP'
    Init: game=SP test Session A9, mode=firstPropStore, global seed=741201, playfield=Stetell
    Loading playfield 'Stetell'
    Playfield 'Stetell' with playfield seed 776309 loaded (513 ms)
    [Instancing] Clear World
    Weather: CloudsLight
    Weather: RainMedium
    Weather: Clouds
    gm
    God mode is enabled now
    Itemmenu
    Item menu state is 'Enabled' now
    Spawnanyblueprint
    Spawning of blueprints is set to allow

    Opened H menu and Selected a number of full stacks of Promethium Ore, and moved them into the player Inventory.

    Entered HV.
    Ride Height raised to 3.00m
    HV is stationary on the flat top of a small hill. Location of the experiment does not show any behavioral difference, although if performed at the bottom of a hill to the right, the HV will dig into the bottom of that hill with it's side after it starts moving under load.
    Opened P Menu
    Selected Logistics Tab
    Default Container Controller showed Mass: 0.00 kg and Volume: 0 / 7375 (SU available)
    Shift + Left clicked stack 999 Promethium Ore from Player Inventory into default selected Container Controller
    HV sank a little, the nose dropped a little and it listed to the right hand side
    Container Controller showed Mass: 20.0 t and Volume: 1988 / 7375
    Shift + Left Clicked stack 999 Promethium Ore from Player Inventory into same Container Controller
    HV Sank a little again the nose dropped a little further and list to right hand side became more severe
    Container Controller showed Mass: 40.0 t and Volume: 3996 / 7375
    Shift + Left Clicked stack 999 Promethium Ore from Player Inventory into same Container Controller
    HV sank further down, nose dropped a little further and now a sever List to the right hand side, HV starts to slide to the right and forward.

    O key held down does right the HV after exiting from the Logistics screen. Releasing the O key immediately returns the HV to the severe right List, Nose down attitude. Pressing the left movement key will cause the HV to move to the left more slowly than it does without anything on board. But with more Volume in the controller it gets to the point that trying to go left has no impact on the slide to the right at all...

    This behavior is repeatable across different game sessions within the same save game and seed. I have not tried this with a different HV, as I have none as yet built with the same set up. All other instances I have are from pre-A9 builds.

    Set up new Single Player Survival game using the same seed. Went through the above steps and found the issue to be repeatable. Exited the game and selected option to Resume from Menu. Before opening the game I went into Difficulty and disabled Weight and Volume by turning Radio Button to Off.

    Went into the game and repeated the above steps of loading Promethium Ore into the HV... there was no discernible difference to the attitude of the vehicle and it remained level and did not move even though a further 2 stacks of 999 Promethium Ore were loaded into the Container Controller, which showed
    Mass: 99.9 t and Volume: 9990 / 7375. Even loading a further 5 stacks of 999 Promethium Ore into the Container Controller had absolutely no effect, as would be expected when playing without Weight and Volume enabled.



    Screenshots, Crash Logs, any other Relevant Information or Download links: No Crash logs as it does not cause the game to crash. In a Discord channel I am in a number of other players also reported a similar behavior when working with Weights and Volume.
     
    #1
  2. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    I don't see how you could possibly think of this as a bug.
    You had weight and mass turned on and seem surprised when you pile 100 tonnes of ore into an HV that can't support that kind of weight with that many hover engines.
    It's tilting to the right because the storage containers that are holding that weight are on the right side of the HV.
     
    #2
  3. JetsetUK

    JetsetUK Ensign

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    Yes.. I did have Weight and Volume turned on, deliberately, as I wished to test the system.

    Although the Additional weight did cause the HV to sink down, at no point did it actually ground out, so the engines were capable of holding it up.

    It's tilting to the right DESPITE the Contoller being just a tad in front of the C of G and also situated on the centre line of the HV. The Extenders are distributed evenly both fore and aft of the controller and to the left and right of it, in fact making up the floor of the HV... so no, they are not built only on one side, so should not make the HV tilt in that fashion, hence me reporting what appears to be a completely repeatable bug.
     
    #3
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  4. stanley bourdon

    stanley bourdon Captain

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    how are the cargo containers, cargo controllers, and cargo extensions distributed? if the weight is not distributed evenly the HC will tilt to the heavy side. and are the other components balanced so when the craft gets to near capacity the off balance of components will show up more
     
    #4
  5. If so then you'll need to provide the blueprint so it can be looked at.
    Bug or not, there's not much more anyone can do to help without a workable blueprint.
     
    #5
  6. Dragonpc

    Dragonpc Ensign

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    Same thing happens to me in my HV when loaded down. Every HV I have attempted to build, has this exact problem with any significant weight added to it. Which is a shame because they have a multi turret, it should be able to carry a lot more weight than it currently can.
    [​IMG]
    also when it tilts to the side it starts going in the direction of the tilt. until it hits the ground or another object.
    [​IMG]
     
    #6
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  7. JetsetUK

    JetsetUK Ensign

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    Whilst I do agree with you, I am not the only person to experience this issue in the Discord channel I belong to... it was discussed in there way before I reported this, so it's not just my BP that seems to have the issue... if the Devs wish me to provide it, I will endeavor to open a file sharing account and upload the EPB of the vessel... if it's not required, then I won't waste my time opening an account on a website I don't need or want...
     
    #7
  8. SamuelPatre

    SamuelPatre Lieutenant

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    Not sure why you would have to create a share account since the bug tracking site here supports uploading files.

    As an example I have uploaded a rather pitiful version of an HV of my own design.
     

    Attached Files:

    #8
  9. I built 4 different HV designs last night. Three were built as symmetrical designs and were balanced, and one was asymmetrical and balanced.
    All 4 designs had a left and a right cargo. I loaded 3 stacks of promethium into each cargo hold.

    After sitting in the cockpit of each one none of them behaved like the way you said. They all stayed balanced and level the whole time.

    I'm sorry, but there's not much more that can be done without a copy of the blueprint of the vessel with the issue.
    We need to first figure out if that particular vessel behaves the way you say for other people. If so then we need to rule out any issues with the way it was balanced.
    The devs would need a way to verify the bug, either with the blueprint or with the game save.
     
    #9
  10. JetsetUK

    JetsetUK Ensign

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    Here's the EPB for the HV I was using...
     

    Attached Files:

    #10
  11. SamuelPatre

    SamuelPatre Lieutenant

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    It seems the game handles different containers differently.

    Now, this was not recreatable in creative, but in SP I can confirm that adding weight to the Cargo Container does cause problems and a significant tilt to the front left.
    The weird thing is that this is not so for either the Ammo nor Harvester Containers. I put near 400t and 6000SU in the Harvester with no problem, but even 12t in the Cargo Container caused the droop, and more would cause the HV to drop to the ground.

    I don't know if Eleon are wanting container handling to be more like the straight container controller or more like the (Ore and Wood), but either way they should be equal. As a possible hack, you could replace the container controller with a second harvest controller or just take the container controller out and replace with a linking cargo extension. Might be moot in the future due to a patch.

    In regards to why it tilts to the left, I did notice in your design that you have 2x O2 tanks on the left and balancing that out only a fridge and a carbon composite block on the right. This is 400kg to 103kg, which once the additional weight is added rendering the hover engines ineffective, it could tip the balance. I would suggest moving 1 O2 tank from left to right and either balancing out the other side with an additional fridge or other comparable solution. Possibly a wireless module at 50kg. Less of an imbalance.

    Just my two cents worth.
     
    #11
  12. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    an array made from CC+CEs will have its weight added to the geometrical "middle" of the array. As "other" containers are always only 1 or 2 blocks this is the same handling basically.
     
    #12
  13. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    I currently cannot reproduce any "misbehavior" with the blueprints provided. Maybe we need a savegame with the HVs prepared to further investigate

    Note > if you hit N you can use the DEBUG menu and show the center of mass
    20190206210650_1.jpg
     
    #13
  14. I'm not the OP, but the problem with the Merlin (HV on the right in your screenshot) doesn't present itself until you have volume activated AND you load some stuff into the CC. I used 2 stacks of promethium ore for my tests of it.

    The Merlin HV immediately dips forward and to the right once the ore is loaded. It's CC and it's extensions are evenly distributed and the CC is in the center. I even took their blueprint and stripped it down to just the essentials plus the main cargo and made sure it was completely symmetrical and balanced, it still leaned forward and to the right.

    There is something buggy here for sure.
    Give me a few minutes and I will upload a stripped down version of the Merlin that was linked above.
     
    #14
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  15. @Hummel-o-War
    Here is the stripped down version of the Merlin that was linked above by @JetsetUK (thanks for the blueprint. something is definitely wrong here.)
    I stripped it down and completely balanced it out. There is absolutely no reason for the tilt. It should stay perfectly balanced. Put something heavy in the cargo controller with volume activated. It shouldn't behave this way.
    No ore
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1647133141

    Ore loaded
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1647133184

    Tilt
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1647133224

    Edit
    Here is a save game with the player in the HV in question with volume activated and ore is already loaded into the CC. Turn on show center of mass and observe. Mass is shifting in a direction it shouldn't.
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1N27s0jsMqGvKSfY-eP2grAlLIClGpOMQ
     

    Attached Files:

    #15
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2019
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  16. SamuelPatre

    SamuelPatre Lieutenant

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    The CoM is a little finicky as it only changes entering into the cockpit.

    That being said, the other 'gripe' is that creative and SP are treated differently as in creative, the CC+CE's are treated the same as CC(Ammo)/CC(Ore)+CE's, and weight isn't counted. This makes balancing a ship difficult.

    In SP though, CC(Ammo)/CC(Ore)+CE's are not counted but CC+CE's are.
    Also, in regards to weight distribution, CC's are not counted, only the CE's are. So if you have the CC out from center of the CE's, that will be the lighter side. Without contents, CC's amd CE's balance eachother out, but depending on cargo, the CE's can weigh significantly more.

    This can be confirmed in the Status Panel. CC with cargo adds to overall weight of vehicle. Does not with CC(Ore)/CC(Ammo).
     
    #16
  17. JetsetUK

    JetsetUK Ensign

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    @Hummel-o-War ... do you still need my save game? or does krazzykids2006's Save game fulfill that seeing as he HAS managed to reproduce the problem in a completely different game to the ones I had the issue in?

    BTW... thank you for the help krazzykid2006... that was awesome what you did in investigating this problem... appreciated dude! :)
     
    #17
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
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  18. JetsetUK

    JetsetUK Ensign

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    Just working on a SV in the same Game Save as the HV, testing it out under load... and once the Cargo Controller has been filed, it DOESN'T exhibit the same issue - the C of M stays where it is... I took another look at the HV and that still shows the C of M moving to the right when you load up the Cargo Controller...

    Nnot sure if that helps with this issue... o_O
     
    #18
  19. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    Yes, i would still need the savegame plz.
     
    #19
  20. SamuelPatre

    SamuelPatre Lieutenant

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    In my same game that I did the HV testing, I can recreate a shift in CoM when adding weight to the CC, but nothing when adding weight to CC(Ammo) or Fridge.

    The images below show 'empty' and added 8t to the CC.

    The weight change is also reflected on the Status Panel when added to the CC.

    20190208133151_1.jpg 20190208133313_1.jpg
     
    #20

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