DEV BLOG Leaving Alpha & Early Access: some clarifications. :)

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by Hummel-o-War, Jul 22, 2020.

  1. byo13

    byo13 Captain

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    Yes. It was weird because the blueprint asked for cobalt, neodymium and erestrum but I couldn't insert any of them. It turns out the button was enabled anyway even without those three. Thanks for the help.

    I should have tried that. Thanks. Anyway I managed to get the vessel built without those three final items.
     
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  2. IndigoWyrd

    IndigoWyrd Rear Admiral

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    I've known this day was coming for quite some time, and I'm rather glad to hear it is upon us.
    I also hope that lovely starburst image is the new jump-to-warp screen - haven't had a chance to log in yet today, might not have a chance until Sunday, as the summer weekends are my run-around-on-my-yacht days, and I'll be heading out after work tonight.

    Since we're not to the "Final Release" stage at this point, but past Early Access (a topic I'll come back to), perhaps we could call this more in keeping with what it is: a Beta Release. We're still bug-hunting, still implementing, still growing and developing what is the core game. To me, that just screams "Beta". And if we call it Beta 1.0, that's all the better.

    On the topic of Early Access - I blame Steam here for a lot of misunderstanding of what this means. To a few too many overly vocal individuals "Early Access" means "Here's a completely finished game you can start playing now before it goes on sale to the general public."

    That's not what Early Access is, and it never has been, not as far as Steam is concerned. Yes, some games have used "Early Access" to mean exactly that - a chance to start playing, usually a week or two before the public release. I was one of the handful who was able to get Early Release access to No Man's Sky, and have had Early Access to some other games in this manner as well, but that's very different than what Steam does, and those vocal few constantly rant, rave, and refund titles in Steam that do not conform to their misunderstanding of what Early Access means here.

    Since I started playing Empyrion I have been both thrilled and appalled at times - the overall game itself is fantastic, but it's had its share of bugs - bouncing off planets, bizarre torque issues, the motocycle catapult, planets and moons you can fly through but not land on - all of these have been various degrees of horrifying, but there's a great team supporting this game, and they've gone above and beyond to fix these kinds of issues time and time again.

    No, we're not bug-free, not yet. I have faith we will be, or at least as close to bug-free as is possible. We're not feature-complete yet, but we will be. Eleon may be a small team, but they've show to be a great team, time and time again - and a team that really listens to the community - at least the ones that aren't screaming, spitting and swearing in the faces. I've seen more than a few of my own suggestions implemented, as well as quite a few of those with whom I communicate regularly.

    To the detractors, I say this: Be patient - great things will come. Maybe not in the very next update, but they will come.

    To the folks at Eleon: Keep up the GREAT work!

    To everyone else: Ad est posterum...
     
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  3. michaelhartman89

    michaelhartman89 Rear Admiral

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    We finally have warp effects coming!!:D
     
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  4. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    In reality, it is not the industry that is losing its credibility, it's the "players", because it's a free market, and now with all the information available on the internet, there are no more reasons for people to make uninformed decisions.

    And if information is insufficient or completely lacking, why do players still buy ?

    I know, it has been said a thousand times on Steam.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
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  5. johnietoth1967

    johnietoth1967 Commander

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    whata hot mess this rushed release is.
     
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  6. Addy

    Addy Lieutenant

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    I really hope you get it right, because releasing this game when it is not ready, is going to open it up to a whole world of hurt, if I see a game with lots of bad reviews as a finished product, I do not buy it, why would I?

    Just look at some of the negative views out there, some are very very harsh, and unforgiving, even towards games that are still in Alpha.

    At least calling it early beta gives it a better chance to ward off negative comments, its surprising how quickly bad reviews spread.

    This game is fantastic, and the response and dedication towards its development has been exceptional, and it has loads of future potential, but in my opinion for what its worth, its not ready for release as a finished game in its current state, your going to upset a lot of people who are expecting a finished product, and they will not be forgiving, only angry.

    I hope I am wrong.
     
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  7. Boyster

    Boyster Ensign

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    Hello!
    Will our full release saves be safe/compatible with future patches?
    Thank you for everything, a great game.
     
    #67
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  8. ZaCloud

    ZaCloud Ensign

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    That's the other side of the same coin... Lots of gamers tend to be young, and the young are often impatient. And it seems like people's memories are getting shorter or something, cuz they'll forget all about the outrage they felt at a studio they vowed to boycott, when the next shiny game comes out and so do their wallets.

    Lots of us with principles try to warn them. To tell them that if they keep fueling the machine, it'll see that practice as a working business model and repeat it and get worse with it. But not enough people nowadays think about the long-term, about social responsibility, etc. (And indeed, even in the U.S. in general, where people are tending more to think only about themselves right now, rather than society as a whole and the future. :() They just see a game they're interested in and buy it. The info is out there, but usually only found if they look for it. And most won't bother, because it can be frustrating and exhausting, and consume time not everyone has, and they want that good looking game NOW.

    And it seems at least in the USA, people have gotten so used to outrages and scandals, that they forgive companies within two months just to keep their lives convenient. Because if we boycotted every company that did something immoral or untrustworthy, we'd have to farm our own food in our back yards, shear our own sheep for clothing, etc. :confused:

    So yeah, this sensation desensitization has produced people who just go "Ooh shiny!" and chase whatever it is, without thinking about the big picture. Because it makes life easier and more pleasant for that particular moment.

    Those of us who know better have done our best, have boy'ed our cotts, have spread the news, have warned complacent gamers what the pre-order culture is doing to the industry, and thus gamers ourselves... but enough others mindlessly consume to keep rewarding the pattern, plus YouTube producers who do game reviews of course all end up buying it even if they know it'll suck just so they can critique it. So the cycle continues, because it's still profitable and lets the publisher gets richer. While the rest of us can only watch in dismay. :(
     
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  9. Cubez

    Cubez Ensign

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    I was also taken aback when I saw the announcement as i've been through the journey for a while. I am glad that clarification was made here and hope to see some type of a roadmap or feature list. We do need something to look forward to, even though it's hard to maintain a roadmap. Honestly, I'd rather there be a roadmap and if a certain feature can't make it, it'll get pushed back. That's more acceptable in my view, honesty and transparency is key here.

    As you said, saying nothing makes it look like a dead game. So even if you can't 100% commit to a roadmap/feature list, at least have it there for us to look forward to and know what's to come in future updates. I do like reading the dev blog posts. This is my first post in probably years but I do like to keep myself updated on this game.

    Looking forward at what's to come and wish you guys the best. :D
     
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  10. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    @ZaCloud

    I wholeheartedly agree.

    At least it should be comforting to know that even if Empyrion fails and has to stop development tomorrow morning, there is already enough content and customisation available to make it a game that can feel and look completely different if desired. We can't change textures, sounds or models, but that's about it. Even if the game falls into bad review hell, it will remain a gem. Unpolished, but still a gem. It's already better than many finished Indy titles, and even than some pro studio games.
     
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  11. yataro79

    yataro79 Lieutenant

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    I feel like @byo13 is making an important point here that I haven't found addressed in the various threads discussing this topic. So please consider this in your concerns as I find myself as one of those people that would react like this: "Okay, it's flawed, but when I look at the recent update-history, it seems very promising."


    I don't think that's true anymore as it was 10 years ago. As an example: The game 'Astroneer' (great game for me). When they released 1.0 they just had introduced some sort of story (not really, only some actual objectives, way less than EGS had to offer a year ago). After that they had to address many complaints about bugs not being fixed, features not yet implemented, you get the deal I guess ;-)
    And they addressed them and they still do. I don't know the motivation behind their decisions and timing but it feels familiar when I now watch the development here. Check out Astroneer, it's a lot of fun.

    I'm 87.4% sure that when (edit: IF! Sorry, I'm german, we use 'wenn' both ways) Eleon crashes EGS it will not be due to the timing of 1.0.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
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  12. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    I agree. I'm afraid they might get tired of having players crying when they change something, and crying again when they revert the changes. But they are very good at not showing how they feel about that, because I would not have that patience.
     
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  13. yataro79

    yataro79 Lieutenant

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    Eventually, surely. We all do, don't we? Then we move on. :) EGS 2 maybe or 'Empyrion - Battle Arena' :D
     
    #73
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  14. Alhira_K

    Alhira_K Commander

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    That´s the point and i don´t understand why the devs don´t seem to get it. They´re basically NoMansSkying it and that´s a sh** move.

    I didn´t buy NMS and very unlikely that i´ll ever do. It was built on false promises and sold to players unfinished. Now 4! years later the game is apparently in a better state but still at it´s original price of 55€ with only a 50% discount. It´s just not worth it. Heck i wouldn´t even pay 10€ for it.

    If i`d buy EGS in mid august (and no, until then the devs will not be able to sort enough bugs out) i´d try to play it for an hour or one and a half, leave the first negative review ever and refund. I wouldn´t even get to experience the ship building part which is a main reason for my 632 played hours.
     
    #74
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  15. Boyster

    Boyster Ensign

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    Empyrion and No Mans sky are both amazing games.
    Both dev teams have worked hard to bring their games in a good state without even asking money for one DLC.
    In my opinion?Yes they should have asked for some moneys but huge respect they didnt.
    Empyrion has proven again and again that they care a lot about their game and its unfair to instantly
    think that they will abandon it.
    No Mans sky has proven again and again that they want to deliver the game they promised and its unfair to instantly judge it.
     
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  16. sulferon

    sulferon Lieutenant

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    This, of course, is entirely my opinion... However, if you look at the forum with bugs or suggestions... It seems to me that developers mostly ignore the logical wishes of the players regarding the desired changes or fixes, and instead focus on something less logical. And I don't mean any complicated or expensive things, but rather simple ones-like "redraw the sight so that it is not so painful for the eyes", or "fix the reloading of the weapon at last". And they have their own very specific vision of what the game should be. their decisions do not overlap with our understanding, but are in their own special vision, and we must accept this. To this must be attributed to the release of the early access. You see the game from your side and they see it from their side, and there is an obvious difference in what is really necessary.
     
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  17. Beasthammer

    Beasthammer Commander

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    Thank you! You should have started with this post instead of the announcement one. There would be less msg-s related to these topics...
    The warp screen is a waited addition (I haven't seen it yet) thank you for that. Can you please make CV/HV/SV actionbars work? Like really work and forget that stupid info panel with those 1 million switches? It is so lame.

    Removing tags may work for you guys but why dont you just remove the ALPHA tag and countinue the development? starting with V13? As of my understanding with 1.0 you will inevitably reach that number in the future... Why bother?
    I imagine when empyrion will ask me to upgrade from ver 69 to ver 72.00...
     

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  18. Alhira_K

    Alhira_K Commander

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    I really don´t understand why so many people fail to understand the point. The majority of the people criticising in this and the last thread do NOT believe that Eleon will abandon the game. It is about how the game will be percieved by new customers when it loses its EA status and Alpha title and is on the storefront basically looking like a finished game while 10 minutes after the launch you realize it`s basically still in its Alpha phase, only the devs pretend that it is not that way. There´ll be a lot of people who will feel ripped off and act accordingly. I am afraid (and a lot of other people too) that this will lead to way less exposure, more ridicule, almost exclusive negative reviews and overall way less success than doing this step after a one year long beta phase.

    And the last time i´m gonan mention NMS: I wonder if you´d tell the same thing to your car dealer when you get your car delivered and he tells you something about the finish not being done 100% which is to come next month and maybe you´ll get the exhaust pipe at the same time otherwise you have to wait a bit longer, the front passenger seat still missing which may or may not come in two months, the rearview mirror pointing the wrong direction that is to be fixed in two or three weeks. And please don´t ask where the engine hood is.
     
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  19. Boyster

    Boyster Ensign

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    I share your fears(About Empyrion) and your disappointment(About No Mans Sky).
    I do feel though you are not seeing the whole picture.
    Both games have enough content and gained enough trust to earn their right to do what they re doing.
    Empyrion has more than enough content to justify its place in the game universe.
    Maybe its not what we all dream, including the devs, but people, most people i am confident will see through
    the problems and enjoy a very unique and almost endless content title.
    And last for No Mans Sky, yes, i am willing to put aside any anger from the release because at least now
    i have a very nice game to play, i wish i had it from the very first time i bought it but i am glad i have it now and not just a shell of it.
     
    #79
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  20. Beasthammer

    Beasthammer Commander

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    This is where you are really wrong. When you play Empyrion in a perspective of an RPG... Where you build and get only the essential stuff to advance further, you will hit the content cap in like 8-10 hours.
    You will find yourself in a flying brick CV with your flying brick SV, without touching the HV stuff all together... You will have all the resources you need and weapons what are actually worth something and you barely left the starting planet.

    My question here: Why would you start exploring? (You almost have everything) (Only reason maybe to get those alien weapons on your ship) Thats it! You dont need to leave even the first solar system because you can get all the stuff what you ever need. Why the galaxy then?

    If you play Sim Empyrion City and build for fun it will satisfy you.
    If your goal is to explore and map all the POIs you may spend more time in the game but it becomes as repetitive as NMS really fast!

    This game has a great potential and after alpha 8, alpha 12 brought my faith back in it. It could be a great game if the technical issues and content would be addressed, but i think that shitstorm unity is maybe the biggest problem here.
    Because i haven't seen any game yet (which used unity) to be a flawless master piece. (There are tons of gliches and issues everywhere)

    I hope some day every feature will snap together and work like a flawless machine which is built by logic, until then lets help with testing and suggestions to make those actionbars work... (Please make us an easter egg and delete that motorcycle forever! We have that HV at the start of the story) Make it possible to build HV bikes from lvl 1.
     
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