Problem, Theories, and Solutions in Infantry Combat

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by The Big Brzezinski, Mar 19, 2023.

  1. The Big Brzezinski

    The Big Brzezinski Captain

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    Foot combat with small arms is one of Empyrion's weaker pillars. Compared against the gameplay of designing and building great flying fortresses and devastating attack craft, the prospect of parking it to head into the lion's den with only a rifle and armored spacesuit for protection seems counterintuitive. Changes that have greatly improved other aspects, such as the addition of energy shields, have often negatively impacted infantry combat to a degree as well.

    What I hope to do in this thread is identify problems, explore their specific root causes, and spitball some ideas for generally improving the experience of being a boot on the ground. The only caveat is the assumption that the design of POIs will not change. That goes for admin core POIs as well. The goal is not to concoct a weaponized patch against these POIs, but to imagine new tools, powers, and systems which help ensure that players encountering these POIs find them interesting and enjoyable instead of problematic.



    I'll start with some personal observations. Empyrion's combat in general is rooted in attrition, and its infantry combat is no except. Every shot you make expends your ammo supply and wears out your weapon. Every hit you take requires medical supplies to heal in the field and wears out your suit. Even every moment you spend in the field burns food and probably oxygen. This paradigm is a good match for a survival game. It fits well with the aesthetic of managing resources to stay alive and effective.

    Unfortunately, this focus on attrition also comes with significant downsides. The resource management gameplay that enriches aspect like ship design and map exploration also dominates infantry combat. The result is battles that feel like they're decided not by precision or positioning, but by paperwork. Every POI is a test of your stockpile of munitions and supplies, not your chops as a first person shooter. You're incentivized to proceed as cautiously and deliberately as possible to avoid damage. Entering a room without checking it out first with your F5 drone is asking cut down by sentry guns and troopers hiding amongst the greebles. From the moment you first step out of your ship and through a POI's front door, you are constantly, albeit slowly, bleeding to death.

    There are other non-intrinsic issues as well. The lack of combat barks or even useful footstep sounds render you functionally deaf, making any sort of situational awareness next to impossible. Imbalanced level scaling turns otherwise worthy foes into bullet sponges. Underwhelming loot makes the whole exercise seem pointless, especially when it's so much easier, cheaper, and safer to defeat POIs with more destructive vessel-mounted weapons.



    Aside from fixing these tangential issues, I've got a few ideas for gimmicks that might improve the situation. The first would be personal energy shields. The idea is to create a buffer of time between being attacked and taking real damage in which you can react. As it is, the first sign of danger is usually a large chunk of heath coming off your status bar and a brand new ailment to open a bunch of menus to treat. With a regenerating health buffer in the form of a shield, players would be able to fight aggressively instead of pensively, and infantry combat could finally have some degree of dynamism and speed. Attacks that only damage the shield would also not inflict ailments. The shield would have a five second delay after not taking damage before recharging over ten seconds. For balance, I would say a medium suit has the strongest shield, followed by light, then heavy, and finally suitless being the weakest. Suit durability would not impact the shield except through its current impact on effective armor rating.

    We could really use some enhanced vision technology. Night vision goggles and ore scanners were a good start. Next step would be thermal imaging. I picture it as the outline of SSOR ore nuggets applied to NPCs. Hostiles within ten meters get outlined in red, non-hostile NPCs in green, non-enemy players in blue. You use it just like an ore scanner; just stick the device in your inventory. This way, both the thermal scanner and night vision goggles would be usable at the same time. Electromagnetic imagers might also be used to highlight turrets, coloring them similarly to how debug tools mark structural integrity. A very useful tool for attack SV pilots. And if you really want to just start playing around with shaders, there's echolocation.

    A big hole in our toolkits is explosives. We've got timed limpet mines, and that's about it. We could really use some proximity or command-detonated explosives. The former might be tough, but the latter could done with an alternate mode for existing explosives. Set up to three down with right click, they sit and wait for a remote detonator ping. A player then selects and uses their detonator in the toolbar to set them off (or they just go away after two minutes to keep things tidy). Placing a fourth despawns the oldest explosive. With this capability, players could set clever traps to lure and overcome superior opponents.

    We also are desperate for grenades. It's depressing knowing there's a big group of Zirax waiting for you in the next room, and having no way of using this information beside presenting your face for mutual melting. Problem is, if I recall correctly, the game hasn't the physics necessary to bounce grenades around walls like we would want to. So I would instead like to see the homing rocket launcher replaced with a wire guided version that has you flying the missile yourself in first person like an F5 drone. Flight time would only be about five seconds before detonating, and it would only be single shot, but this is plenty for snaking around a corner or two. The rocket would naturally be shot at by sentry guns and troops, just like a drone.



    Post your own observations and ideas. Hopefully, with some thought and imagination, infantry combat can be something you look forward to instead of resigning yourself to, and POIs can be places to go for a good scrap instead of just something you clear and scrap. Then maybe the next time you come across a big new admin core dungeon POI that looks like a fortified glowing dodecahedron surrounded by SAM sites, you'll want to actually stop and visit instead of moving on to the next wrecked CV.
     
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  2. akimzav

    akimzav Lieutenant

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    I wholeheartedly agree on the first half of your post, i.e. your observations, but I don't think the additions you proposed would address the issues you mentioned:
    • Personal energy shields. A wonderful addition, that I would really like, but all it does in the context of 'paperwork' is it just simplifies it a little bit. If a shield is added, the player would just get a couple of "free" hits to his hp, thus allowing them to be safely jumped by one or two goons. Against a bigger group, however (and that's when the FPS part really is frustrating) it won't make that big of a difference, aside from your HP being effectively larger. The player would still be forced to get in range, fire a number of shots, then get out. The enemies are still big 'ol sacks of HP slowly getting closer. For a very skilled player, this would mean maybe less hit in HP and less healing, but is this picture fundamentally different? I don't think so.
    • Enhanced vision technology. Again, I'd be happy if that is added. However, does the darkness really impede enemies in any way? If it did, I sure didn't notice. And bullet-sponges also don't mind to dwell in brightly lit rooms and corridors as well, so maybe I just don't get something here.
    • Explosives. Claymores? Sweet. Remote detonation? Awesome. Door breachers? Count me in. Thermite charges? Hell yeah. Does the bullet-sponge really care what damage to ignore? Nah. Is it that fun to sit and wait 2-3-5 minutes while brain dead lagging troops or mechs or whatever finally reach the trap the player deviously prepared? I doubt it.
    • Grenades and ?kamikaze drones?. Once again, I'm all for it. Now, for me, that naturally raises the question: is the paperwork of the proposed "grenades vs. N enemies" is any more fun than the present paperwork of "ammo + meds vs. N enemies"? I really, really doubt it. If anything, it would take away the pew-pew and replace it by boom-boom (but also in the other room, so, not the happy boom-boom style).
    What I think is killing the FPS component is it's utter and complete linearity. Allow me to explain:
    • Positioning is trivialized. The enemies either see you and hit you, or don't see you and don't hit you (and occasionally don't see but still hit you, but that's a bug), and same goes for player. No cover, no peeking around the corner. High enemy accuracy is paired with hitscan. On those rare occasions, when the player is able to damage an enemy without a clear line of sight (w/grenade launcher, for instance) it isn't all that much fun either. For me, personally, this feels like double cheese -- I cheese the enemy because in a fair fight they would cheese me, and for me that is the opposite of a fun game.
    • Movement is penalized. If a player manages to find a spot to which enemies march one by one, he won. When the player moves, he gains nothing except for the possibility to get shot by an enemy around the corner, or even bull$#!t-killed by a scripted event, like an ambush or an explosion. The accuracy of enemies with hitscan is not affected by movement. Enemy awareness of player's position is not affected by movement. So, why move at all? That's the recipe for a shootout with high-adrenaline for you, folks.
    • Hits effectively are "minus hp". It doesn't matter where you hit the enemy, nor does it matter what you hit them with, outside of the amount of meat points the bullet-sponge sheds. The enemy is unyielding, fearless, unstoppable. The enemy never takes any status debuffs. Groin, head, forearm hit -- it just keeps going, like a Terminator, but also, somehow, a boring one.
      And it really isn't that different on the player's side. Surprisingly (for me it was an unpleasant revelation), the insane amount of status effects and injuries the player can suffer somehow affects foot combat with exactly zero impact, outside the need to stuff a dozen of different medications with colorful icons in inventory space. The status effects are so easily inflicted and equally so easily healed that at some point I noted that I started to treat them as some kind of a dumb mini game: this colorful status icon tells me to use this colorful medicine. That's it, that's their contribution.
    • Respawns. Both the player's and the enemies ability to infinitely respawn does two things.
      • First, this is a very dirty hack to cover up messed up game mechanics, balance and lack of testing.
        "Oh, you died because you didn't see the explosion coming from an invisible scripted trigger? Just respawn."
        "Oh, there really was too much enemies for a structure labeled with <3rd level>? Just respawn."
        Same goes for the enemies.
        "Oh no, the players keep defeating the enemies too easily! How can we fix that? I have an idea! What if there were the same enemies, in the same rooms, but over and over and over again? That sure is great!"
      • Second, it takes away all the remaining dynamic (if any) out of the FPS element. Let's for a moment assume that everything outside of this point is perfect. There are absolutely no bugs, the shooting plays smooth like AAA titles, there are covers, the AI actively flanks and regroups instead of smoking methamphetamine, there is a proper accuracy, ballistics and vision model, yada yada. But I just happen to have parked a clone-vat compatible vehicle at the entry point of the POI, stocked with tons upon tons of equipment. So what happens if I die? I respawn.
        • Let's assume the enemies also respawn. So I just start at the beginning. Nothing in the game world changed -- without any consequences whatsoever. What just really happened is a waste of player's time.
        • Now, assume the enemies do not respawn. So I just continue where I died. Maybe a little closer, if the enemies are smart enough to change positions. But I just continue. So.. what was the point of me dying, then?
    • Non-destructible environment. One would think that in a game where every structure is composed of destructible blocks there would be an element of fun, consisting in modifying the combat environment in useful, violent, and spectacular ways. What a noob, huh? It seems like for every POI without an admin core the game actively fights back on any attempt to damage the surroundings. Shield that magically covers every block? Check. Grates, windows and ventilation covers made from rolled homogeneous tank-class armor? Right here. Critical parts (like Core) made unserviceable but indestructible via molding them into an armor cube? Done. POIs corridor geometry forming one actual path that is enforced upon the player by double layered battleship-class über-unobtanium alloy, 'cause god forbid them make a shortcut? Done, done, done.
    My propositions, as such, are the following.
    • Nerf the NPCs in a good way. Ballistic model, aiming model, the model of how do they know where the player is, vision model, movement / flanking behavior. Taking cover, shooting from cover, corner peeking. Group movement, minimal cooperation, suppressing fire. All that stuff.
    • Meaningful but less frequent injuries. Maybe also less aggressive over small periods of time. Most should probably be triggered only after severe HP loss. For example, infection and parasites only after a few hits; multiple successive gunshots may cause organ damage, etc.
      The injuries should also be harder to treat. Example: most field medicine to be applied over time, and only mitigate the detrimental effects for some time, not fully heal them. Full treatment to be performed by medical machines, that are expensive to construct/require resources to operate/limited to BA/require the player to spend significant time in them or visit them multiple times over a course of a few days.
    • Injuries on enemies. Concussion, bleeding, blindness, loss of limb, and retreat from combat (probably to patch up). It's always fun to see the baddies adequately react to wounds.
    • Limit respawns. Respawns should either occur at a high penalty (largely penalizing entering combat after that for some time) or be limited to BA, or require expensive resources. I would also completely disable enemy respawn, at least make it a few hours delay to disable in-combat respawn.
    • POIs design embracing destructibility. POIs shouldn't feel like they were built to withstand a nuclear explosion in utility closet #3. There is a great opportunity in utilizing the already built-in block destructibility and structural stability. Shoot through glass, cut out doors, blow stuff up with rocket launcher, melt steel beams with plasma cannons and watch it all collapse. That's fun and beautiful, don't you think?
    But most importantly,
    • Send AI to meth rehab. AI should perform as hired muscle, soldiers, beasts battle robots, not as a brain dead bullet-sponges. Then, the it will be possible to make fast paced, deadly, skill-centered, fun FPS combat. Without it, other changes will not act to their full intended effect.

    Thank you for reading.
     
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  3. Insopor

    Insopor Commander

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    The last couple of points about things like:
    -infinitely respawning enemies
    -can't blast your way through almost every wall.

    Those aren't game design issues, but POI build issues.
    For the infinitely respawning enemies, there's only one POI I know that does this to a notable degree, and it does it to an ridiculous degree. The Deep Space Radar Station. In other posts I've already detailed why what it's doing is bad. But the bottom line is that it's just a bad design. And if not, it's a decent idea executed so poorly that it's bad. It's not a challenge; it's a chore.

    The stuff about super strong walls. Well, having weaker walls where you could blast your way through is totally an option, but it would mean the creator has to build with that intention, using weaker materials in some spots to allow such playstyle. I won't fault POI builders for not doing so as a lot already goes into POI creation.


    But the rest of what you've said is about spot on.

    Hitscan is bad when used for the sweeping majority of enemies.
    Enemies not reacting to shots is bad.
    Melee enemies have way to long a range.
    The AI is so bad that it can somehow get stuck on a simple door, but also snipe you with pinpoint accuracy even when it looks like they shouldn't be able to hit you. (The Zirax commander model, specifically, is totally capable of shooting around corners.)
    Status effects are an absolute chore. A lot of them starve you to death in just a few seconds it seems.

    The best thing Reforged Galaxy did in terms of balance is the tweaks to enemy responsiveness and balance of damage numbers. Foot combat is way better...

    however.

    Heavy reliance on hitscan, and nonsensical status effects constantly requiring a full medical suite (or the entire contents of a pharmacy) are things that could be tweaked in config, without needing to alter core game elements.


    Oh, and the recent addition of new weapons, and the re-balancing of weapon damages; none of those were an improvement. Shotguns are completely worthless now. And there's no reason to use anything that isn't the sniper. Shotguns, smgs, assault rifle, pulse rifle, pistols; all trash. Skip it until you get T2 sniper or a laser rifle.
     
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  4. The Big Brzezinski

    The Big Brzezinski Captain

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    I figure asking for changes in POI design is a dry hole. Most POIs are sourced from the community. There probably isn't any method for devs to moderate the sensibilities of POI designers that wouldn't do far more harm than good. They're not doing work for hire. They're building this stuff in their spare time because it's fun. Make of that what you will.

    Far more likely to succeed I think would be to equip players with new capabilities they can use to respond to the questions these POI pose. We need better answers than throwing an even larger stockpile of ammo, medicine, and spare gear at the POI until it runs out of things to shoot and directs you to the "I win" lever. On the other end of this profligate path is the place where all POIs are cleared by building a T1 SV with 15 mm guns and cutting a hole straight to the core without ever setting foot inside, because that's what makes economic sense in a situation where material wealth is all you have to answer with. Both answers are intrinsically boring. Then you get to spend ever more idle time salvaging the ruin. Oh goody. Cement. My favorite.

    POI running should be a fun experience in and of itself, regardless of whether there's loot or not. There's no practical way to change the ethos, aesthetics, or sensibilities behind POIs. So that only leaves changes to ourselves.
     
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  5. michaelhartman89

    michaelhartman89 Rear Admiral

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    I'm not a fan of any type of X-Ray vision in games. It takes away the feeling of suspense, but if it were a high level or rare item, bring it on; just not baseline gameplay. Ghost Recon and farcry were completely ruined with stupid X-ray vision
     
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  6. The Big Brzezinski

    The Big Brzezinski Captain

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    If it was restricted by line of sight, that would be preferable. I just assume it's simpler to have it work pretty much like the ore scanner.

    The main thing is that visibility, even reliable lighting, cannot be taken for granted. You're basically blind in some conditions. Meanwhile, enemies can sense (and shoot) you perfectly well. With the right sensing tools, these reduced visibility conditions can impact the battle without ever stopping it completely.
     
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