Reforged Eden Scenario

Discussion in 'Scenarios' started by Vermillion, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. Joij

    Joij Lieutenant

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    It's why I want Eleon to give this game full modding support so badly!!! Because I know Eleon won't make half the stuff I want for this game like...

    >Eliminating the 250x250x250 size limit for vehicles and bases. (I want SSDs and a personal Death Star!!!)

    >Having walking vehicles and wheeled/tracked vehicles. (Gotta have my own AT-ATs and Abrams Tanks!)

    >Ship vehicles and submersibles. (So I can properly build the Bismarck and pilot a Gungan Submarine as well!)

    >Being able to walk on a spaceship while its moving, or any other vehicle for that matter. (Nuff said)

    >Able to build underwater bases by properly keeping the water out. (Like basic water physics)

    >Employable NPCs and a proper automation system. (Cause Minecraft has redstone, and I need pilots for my SVs otherwise my carriers are useless in single player!)

    >Chiselable blocks. (So I can deform and morph blocks to the proper shape and size for my creations)

    >Actual low-tech windows and doors. (Sounds weird, but I need like actual paned windows and doors like what you would find on a normal suburban house. To, you know, build an actual suburban house!)
     
    #601
  2. CrazyZ

    CrazyZ Captain

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    Are there any chances SVs will get some more punch? I am currently working on a medium sized (11.5 X 18 m) SV and figured out it moves like an elephant, lol. I have built in medium sized jet thrusters, but even SVs of mine that are double the size are double agile in Vanilla than my new one in RE. And even if I add another pair of M jets the yaw value increases only by 1. Putting in 50+ RCS devices isn't an option for me as well as switching out the M Jets for large ones, since it would ruin the design. I consider myself kinda a pro builder when it comes to high performance SVs, but you got me clueless in RE, lol. I can live with releasing the build for Vanilla only, but it would be great if I could build fast SVs in RE too. Kind regards and keep up the good work!
     
    #602
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  3. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    SVs already got a huge speed boost in 1.4, but if your plan is to have SVs that can strafe and accelerate in all directions with minimal thrusters like vanilla, you're either gonna find it extremely difficult or impossible.
    If your ship is turning too slowly, the problem will be thruster positioning and thruster strength. Small thrusters in Reforged don't have the insane strength of the ones in vanilla (A single S-Thruster can lift a heavy SV on its own, an L-Jet Thruster has more thrust than a CV thrusters).

    This will not be changed without evidence. I want blueprints, expected behaviour and video recordings (when necessary). Just because people want their ship should move a specific way, doesn't mean it should.
     
    #603
  4. me777

    me777 Commander

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    maybe someone can give me advice:

    I'm still around the start systems,
    I play singleplayer,
    I have a solid base and autominer materials income.
    I have an CV_Ares_L25RF (Reforged) and an RF02 - Vendetta (and a space-base, where i can park both inside a forcefield)
    also I'm honored with about everyone but pirates ;P (Yes, also the Zirax)

    Right now im trying to figure out what to do next and what ship to use:
    The Ares is a good explorer, but it does not have the sturdyness of the Vendetta when there is a fight - on the other hand the Vendetta strugels to take home the riches one finds, and also it only has a standard warpdrive.

    One idea is to do the Object 1 quest in the Ares,
    another is to get a mobile base (Helios-MSC-RE) and just wander around (maybe also to Object 1),
    yet another is to restart with the reforged storry (that one is on hold right now because i had a bug, not sure if it will continue or is stuck).

    Also i'm still looking for quantums and epic suit boosters, but no luck finding those yet...

    Thanks for advice :D
     
    #604
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  5. Inappropriate

    Inappropriate Captain

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    I have generally found SVs to be too squishy for heavy combat. If you absolutely have to use one to take on a drone base or patrol vessel than build it as small and light as possible with lots of forward thrust and a bunch of fixed plasma cannons. Just fly strait into the side of what ever your attacking so that the opposing guns can't get a good angle on you and burn down their shield. Many of the older builds have some pretty bad blind spots once you get close. Once their shield is down fly back out of range of their guns. You then make careful runs on their turrets, firing a single volley each run before pulling back out until all the turrets are destroyed. This obviously only works if whatever your fighting doesn't have a shield that regenerates after its dropped.

    If you think that sound risky, its because it is. Your much better off just using a CV for taking on anything more then drones.
     
    #605
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  6. stanley bourdon

    stanley bourdon Captain

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    The only time I use an SV any more is in the first couple of hours of the game unless it is to take out sentry guns or if I have 2, or more, people shielded CV gets right on top of the POI to take the hits and the SV snipe at what they can. This is also why I no longer bother with HV tanks, they just can not handle the big base guns.
     
    #606
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  7. Inappropriate

    Inappropriate Captain

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    Agreed. These days I only use HVs and SVs for mining, cargo transport and early game drone hunting. I'm not exactly happy with the current balance but I'm also not really sure how to fix it.

    On the one had part of the problem is in the prevalence of heavy energy weapons in POIs that completely annihilate small or lightly armored structures in a couple hits. There really needs to be more variation in POI weaponry to encourage diversity of tactics in taking them instead of the plasma/laser/missile slug fest that combat always seems to devolve into. Vermillion went to all the truble of making the various weapons feel unique and the only time you ever see it is in what weapons you stick on your own ships.

    On the other hand, from a logical prospective, you wouldn't take a single star fighter and throw it up against a hardened military bunker with AA defenses and expect not to be shot down trying to face-tank it. I feel like the problem here is a combination of the very short range of all weapons combined with how aim-boty the AI is and the crazy low top speed. Unfortunately changing any of these would have major implications for the rest of the game.

    As a stop gape solution, adding a bit more spread to many of the CV/BA weaponry might help a little.
     
    #607
    stanley bourdon likes this.
  8. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    Doesn't work.
    Only hitscan weapons can use BulletSpread as a setting, projectile-launching weapons are always pin-point accurate (but have travel time).
    Increasing BulletSpread on the few CV weapons that use it will make it impossible for them to shoot down drones, which people are already having trouble with.

    With the new sub-divided shield damage values, it's now possible to balance CV/BA vs HV/SV in the shield department. Which is where one of the major problems with balance is. (E.g. If you make it so an SV will survive a hit to it's shield, then a CV becomes invincible with it's shield.)
    Damage scaling vs shields can (probably) be better scaled to an individual ship-type.
     
    #608
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  9. Inappropriate

    Inappropriate Captain

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    Projectile based weaponry not being able to using spread is actually a pretty major failing. Its almost as bad as hard coding keybindings.
    From a programing standpoint there is literately no reason not to and it would probably actually run better to boot. Less needlessly branching code is always a good thing and unifying similar functions tends to be is easier to debug. Without the source code its impossible to say for sure but this kind of thing tends to point to a lack of experience and/or planing. Both are bad.

    From a game play prospective it would also make sense that some weaponry would be more accurate then other. In this case plasma seems to be one of the main culprits in gutting ships because it hits so hard and is fast enough that dodging can be very difficult. Simply allowing it to miss smaller targets at range without slowing down the projectile would go a long way towards making HVs/SVs more viable while keeping it effective against CVs/BAs.

    I'm not sure how I feel about the new sub-divided shield mechanic. In general I'm very much against the idea of the apparent same technology behaving differently just because you mounted it on something that move instead of something stationary. As I said before, its better NOT to get hit in an SV and I feel Eleon would be better served embracing that philosophy rather then encouraging the face-tank approach. Technical limitation aside flying an SV should be more about skill then how many hits your ship can absorb. High risk and high reword and all that.

    But at least someone at Eleon seems to recognize that they have a fairly major balancing problem.
     
    #609
  10. byo13

    byo13 Captain

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    I don't know who wrote The Cruel Stars solo missions but I must say congratulations, @ravien_ff & @Vermillion.
    Along with all the the other new missions, the story is intriguing and the dialogues are truly made by someone who's comfortable in writing sci-fi. I'd love to read a novel developing more the IDA character. ;)

    Now a feedback about Reforged Eden. AI enemies have become super smart and now offer a decent threat. I was almost stranded on the moon where the crashed MS Titan was because the Zirax aimed my poor SV. Luckily I was still able to fly with half the ship still intact.

    My perception is that, although more exciting now and more rewarding, the game became too hard (in normal difficulty) to be played solo. The Zirax soldiers on foot are ok, but spent 15 minutes firing a heavy sniper on two bomber drones until I gave up and had to use my damaged SV to shoot them down. I'm no complaining though, since the scenario wasn't made with my player profile in mind, of course. One question though: if I set the AI difficulty to Easy mid game, will it change anything for me?

    All in all, excellent work, guys. I've been playing Project Eden, like, forever and I love what Ravien does there.
    RE seems like the perfect game for me, if I can adjust the AI difficulty (hardness of drones/ships).

    Thanks a lot.
    Praise Empyrion!
     
    #610
  11. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    That was me.
    There will eventually be more IDA-focused story missions in the future, after I give some love to the other factions (Pirates and Polaris are next).

    Unfortunately, the difficulty settings afaik, only scale up or down enemy levels and maybe HP.
    It would be preferrable if I could split the scenario's configs into an easy, medium or hard mode without requiring multiple scenarios. The way difficulty is handled now is not even difficulty, it's just bullet-sponginess. With multiple configs, chosen by difficulty settings, I could dumb down the troops on easy and reduce HP of drones; increase thrust on thrusters; add more HP to player turrets, etc...
    Or... do the opposite for hard mode and give people ultra-difficulty FPS combat.
     
    #611
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  12. byo13

    byo13 Captain

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    @Vermillion Totally understandable.
    So the way difficulty is handled today by the game would not allow a multiplying factor in the config files, I see.
    It'd be awesome if Empyrion allowed the use of variables, constants in configs that could be applied to the rest of the file. Or maybe a hard-coded constant like: "DifficultyFactor: 1.0". :D

    Thanks again for the solo missions. It was a joy to play them.
     
    #612
  13. CrazyZ

    CrazyZ Captain

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    I can see all the arguments against SVs and fully understand that a lot of people go for CVs right from the start. It makes me sad that it went that way. When I started playing the game 3 years ago, it was obvious that you'd start your adventure in a tiny HV for gathering mats. Then I would build myself a first SV to make travelling accros the planet more convenient or for making trips to a nearby moon.

    But after some time Eleon decided to nerf SVs by adding CPU limits and a new flight mechanic so that most of the builds were no more usable. Yeah, they buffed SVs back to a more decent status regarding flight agility but the damage was done. Everyone went over to concentrate their focus on building CVs. And why not. You can do literally anything with it that a HV or SV can do. I personally think it is a flaw in game design. Logically you wanna start with nothing and progress your journey through different builds. From a small HV over a decent SV towards a huge CV. an I guess that is what it was intended to be like some years ago.

    I still see people using HV tanks or SVs to raid small or medium POIs, or parking their SVs nearby POIs to raid them on foot. Maybe because it feels more challenging thant to hower giant CV over a POI and let the turrets do the job automatically.

    I still like to build everything. From tiny HVs to big CVs. And that includes SVs too. But I agree that SVs nowadays are often useless.
     
    #613
  14. byo13

    byo13 Captain

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    I must say that I was kinda mistaken when I stated Reforged Eden was too hard for me.
    I'm quite enjoying the RE experience.
    Fighting with Zirax soldiers gets realistic and they act like soldiers, not acting randomly.
    There's a great sense of danger that I'm enjoying.
    I guess the only frustrating part so far was warping to the next system after the starting one only to see my beloved CX4 Scythe be reduced to wreckage by a Tavera class destroyer the moment I jumped.

    If I get a little distant from those destroyers, would they still pursue me forever or is it like vanilla that they'll stop following you?
     
    #614
  15. byo13

    byo13 Captain

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    I found a Factory trader and there were only 4 items among his products.
    Then I realized that when you comment out an item in the traders config file the next items will not be available.

    upload_2021-3-12_16-38-32.png

    Since Item5 was commented out no item below it will appear in that trader's list.
    I even tried regenerating the structure.
    Is that intended?
     
    #615
  16. Alhira_K

    Alhira_K Captain

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    Change the subsequent numbers. Item6 to Item5, Item8 to Item6 and so on.
     
    #616
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  17. byo13

    byo13 Captain

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    Indeed.
    But those traders come with the scenario so I didn't want to edit anything, only report the issue or bug. :)
     
    #617
  18. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Yeah the items need to be numbered properly so you'll have to change all the numbers if you remove one.
     
    #618
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  19. byo13

    byo13 Captain

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    Eleon could adopt a JSON format for those cases with a minimum modification to the files:

    Code:
    {
        "Trader Name": "QuantumSTAR",
        "SellingText": "Welcome to QuantumSTAR! We've got the best deals on high-end electronics and computer systems this side of the galaxy!\n<DISCOUNTTEXT>",
        "SellingGoods": "trwSpecial",
        "Items": [
            "AutoMinerCore, mf=1.0-1.25, 10-50, mf=0.5-0.75, 55-150",
            "SmallOptronicBridge, mf=1.0-1.25, 10-50, mf=0.5-0.75, 55-150",
            "SmallOptronicMatrix, mf=1.0-1.25, 10-50, mf=0.5-0.75, 55-150",
            "LargeOptronicBridge, mf=1.0-1.25, 10-50, mf=0.5-0.75, 55-150",
            "LargeOptronicMatrix, mf=1.0-1.25, 10-50, mf=0.5-0.75, 55-150",
            "Computer, mf=1.0-1.25, 10-125, mf=0.5-0.75, 55-150",
            "FluxCoil, mf=1.0-1.25, 10-75, mf=0.5-0.75, 55-100",
            "Electronics, mf=1.0-1.25, 100-250, mf=0.5-0.75, 55-1500",
            "Optronics, mf=1.0-1.25, 10-50, 0, 0",
            "AdvancedUpgradeKit, mf=1.25-1.5, 1-5, mf=0.5-0.75, 0-6",
            "AlienLargeBlocks, 0, 0, mf=0.5-1.5, 0-30",
            "OxygenTankSmallMS, 0, 0, mf=0.5-2.5, 0-30",
            "TurretBaseLaserBlocks, 0, 0, mf=0.3-0.7, 0-1"
        ]
    }
     
    #619
  20. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Hey all :)

    I had a little free time this evening so started a new Survival Game. Things progressed as they normally do and I got my first HV. This then makes me ask a question: What the hell is going on with Hover Physics these days?

    Here are some of the symptoms I observe:

    - Lightly laden HV leaning to one side, despite being perfectly symmetrical.
    - Unladen HV Turns well with a single RCS, yet turn 10x (quite literally) as fast when loaded.
    - HV that's lightly loaded might randomly flip up and do a barrel role on flat terrain.
    - HV's will auto-correct and induced roll most of the time, yet won't correct pitch. Which leads to...
    - HV's going up a hill will tilt up slightly, then proceed to wheelie over the landscape when it flattens out.
    - Laden HV's that otherwise move fine, will stop working after hitting something. I.e. they could readily hit their top speeds before the collision, but act likely they've lost much of their thrust afterwards. Clearing all cargo and putting it back fixes it.
    - HV's, when turned on, will sometimes shoot up into the air over 10 metres, before slowly drifting down. Which might be linked to...
    - After landing an HV on a Base, the HV doesn't sit level, with part of it (maybe rear, maybe one side) sinking into the Base.

    These are all things that have occurred in the past couple of hours for me. My basic HV often drives perfectly fine, then weirdness starts occurring, I just don't understand why it's acting so weird.

    FYI: Started on the "Dead2" Planet I think it was called, the one where you begin in a wrecked Bunker of some sort, having been kidnapped by Pirates.

    This is a very bizarre experience!

    Scoob.
     
    #620
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