Shields down to warp

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ChumSickle, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. ChumSickle

    ChumSickle Captain

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    Was watching a thread on the steam forums where someone was wondering why we cant have our shields up while we warp. I never really questioned it before, but thinking about it, I would like to know if there was a game play reason it was decided to go with shields down before a warp. Was it a PvP thing to balance against warp in/warp out attacks? Does it have to do with some kidna wonky playfield setting calculation? Id like to think there is a technical reason we cant warp with shields up, akin to the collision issues walking in moving ships.

    If it was a PvP oriented decision, then perhaps making it modifiable for those who are playing in PvE environments.

    RP wise I can see it go either way really...the shield disrupts the warp field...or having a shield is smart when subjecting a vessel to the stresses of a warp jump.
     
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  2. MrGReaper

    MrGReaper Lieutenant

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    I would love to see an option to automate it in the shield device.
    for example a tick box in the shields device menu:
    Auto Shield: when enabled pressing K tells the shields to lower, then warps when they are off, once at the destination it turns the shields back on.
    Would be good for transporting too, lower shield, beam out, raise shield.

    Thats if there is an engine limitation to why we can not warp with shields on
     
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  3. Spoon

    Spoon Captain

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    I think a read a post which said it was because of this.

    You can do this manually but the shields take time to charge once you come out of warp. Not good if you warp to a planet, and end up next to some enemy ships.
     
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  4. MrGReaper

    MrGReaper Lieutenant

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    true, you press x, you wait for the shields to go down, then you press k, wait for arrival, you press x again and wait for the shields to go up.

    What I would like to see is that automated (if enabled in the shield device), the delays would be the same, just automated. Now there would be no way to cancel it, or move the ship during the process. Just a Quality of Life thing.
     
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  5. zaphodikus

    zaphodikus Captain

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    10 second invulnerability? The lack of a spawn cooldown can be abused, but only if enough people warped in and abused invulnerability.
     
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  6. Khazul

    Khazul Rear Admiral

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    I cant see how this could possibly make PvP a better experience. Maybe there is a huge pro-ganking lobby or something...
     
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  7. zaphodikus

    zaphodikus Captain

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    Ha Ha :) I hope not

    I am sure the devs will think of a good compromise for PVP. My biggest struggle with automating the shields was the way signals work if you use sensors to turn your shields on or off, to save pentaxid, it gets more complicated. Would like that to also still work.
     
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  8. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    @ChumSickle

    Here is the original Post from the A 10.0 Patch:
    - Added shield generator (Pentaxid is required to charge the shield and energy is needed to power the shield)

    - Added shield info to Control Panel and shortcut button “Shield” to the GENERAL window to switch on/off shield. In addition, shield can be switched on/off via hotkey “X” (default key can be remapped)
    - While shield is active, you cannot place any new blocks on the structure or warp jump with your vessel
    - Allow Warp Drive Tank also on HV (now renamed into Pentaxid Tank)
    - Pentaxid Tanks now accept stacks of Pentaxid (instead of single items only)

    As this 'function' was there in the first installment I presume its of a more Game-System, Object handling-related issue than of the mere fact what Exploiters do or do not.

    The only 'extension' to this was done a bit later on preventing Players from charging up the Shields right when the Vessel jumps (lower shields, initiate jump sequence, hitting X again in the last second before the jump is done to raise shields again).
     
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  9. stanley bourdon

    stanley bourdon Captain

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    I worry less about other players than NPC ships. NPC are the bigger danger when warping into a sector. When warping into a PVP sector you should be prepared for conflict and have the appropriate equiptment. When warping into PVE early game, without appropriate equipment, looking for the rare resources needed to build better equipment NPC ships can destroy you before you know you have compleated the warp.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
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  10. piddlefoot

    piddlefoot Rear Admiral

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    In MP if you can place a block while shields are on, we can exploit the system, we wont say how.
    So its set so you can not lay any new blocks while shield is on.

    We are not at Star Trek tech levels, so we dont have power generation like in Star Trek so our tech is a bit before that time and we can not generate enough power to run shields and warp at the same time, its one or the other, make your choice.

    I know not all orbits are set up perfect, and sometimes you drop out of warp into a firefight straight of the batt, which can be frustrating yes, SET YOUR SHIELDS TO A HOTKEY.
    The second it renders in new playfield hit that hotkey, if its still going pair shaped, turn OFF the ships dampeners, get to top speed, open map and set new warp point incase you cant escape, point at warp and jump.
    Personally I always go INTO a warp jump with dampeners OFF, at top speed around 100.m/s and ready to open map to select new warp point, literally the first thing I do when I enter a new system is set the warp point out of there first, if you do this, when you enter the new system with dampeners OFF, at 100m/s you have already saved time if it goes all pair shaped, your already at top speed all you need is a destination locked, takes a few seconds.
    Never warp with no ammo, that should be obvious.
    Always have weapons out and ready when warping which should also be obvious.
    I do all of this above , with 17 grand hours, you figure out the best precautions usually pretty quick.
    Its not often that you drop out of warp into a fight straight away.

    But usually you can just outrun most of anything.

    I dont see an issue to be honest with having to make a choice, one or the other, even with the odd orbit thats not set up correctly, keep in mind the game now generates literally hundreds of solar systems, all can be set to random generation or you could make a custom scenario, but with hundreds being generated, odds are every now and then the generator is going to get it wrong on where them CVs are patrolling as it randomly shuffles all the map assets around for each solar system.

    If Eleon had hundreds of coders in house it would be possible to have a scenario built where every system gets checked, because Eleon are a tiny team, literally tiny vs most other game studio's, because of that , they have to use a random generator for building the solar systems / galaxy so it comes with some inherent issues that are very hard to refine and not scramble the whole randomization thing.

    Anyway, it still sucks when you loose stuff to no fault of your own, sorry that happened to you.

    What might be a better solution even if a temp one for now, would be maybe to have a set period of 10 seconds when entering a new playfield where your ships are immune to any damage, that would allow for everything to catch up so to speak and properly sync.

    Just a thought.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  11. zaphodikus

    zaphodikus Captain

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    If you warp into a fracaa, you cannot just jump out, you do have to merely keep shields down and run until you are far enough to warp - which makes some sense. A 10 second invulnerable/disabled cooldown to account for level loading might help make things more personable/fair although some possible confusion arises when people find ways to abuse it using cannon fodder ships, respawn and repeat. While, I'm no fan of copying mechanics for the sake of it.

    So it may ultimately be hard to keep all happy, a cooldown game setting is worth the experiment, so many games implement it, it's not a question of whether Eleon should copy other games, but weather a better game mechanic that ultimately means more licenses get sold is still waiting to be discovered.
     
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  12. Khazul

    Khazul Rear Admiral

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    I don't get what the problem is with allowing shields to function over a jump other than Eleon don't wont for no particular reason beyond it seemed like a good idea at the time.

    Also given their history of making some really bad mistakes when introducing new content (dreadnoughts for eg), then enabling shield over jump will lessen the impact in future of such thoughtless actions and 'shield' them from the fallout.

    I guess they listen to the PvP pro-ganking lobby only.
     
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  13. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    I don't even think it's for PvP. It's not like shields last long in pvp cv combat anyway. It would be nice to have as an option.
     
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  14. Khazul

    Khazul Rear Admiral

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    True - an end game single ship can take even a zirax dreadnought double shield down quickly, so I guess with a good old PvP ganking then shield just gives you time to start to make you escape.

    If not that, then what? Eleon just being bloody minded for the hell of it so they can have a good laugh when they do something like flooding the start solar system with dreadnoughts or similar?
     
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  15. zaphodikus

    zaphodikus Captain

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    Well, to be honest, everyone was barking for a end-game or boss fight for a few years now, so it makes sense to work towards that experimentally. Less walls means less to break.
     
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  16. ChumSickle

    ChumSickle Captain

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    To be clear, I am fine with it either way. I've never (so far) warped into the path of an enemy...ive exited the atmosphere a few times into them though. But its more of a nuisance when traveling within a system. I just wanted to know if there was a legit reason ever given as to why. After seeing that it was set that way from the get go, I assume it has something to do with how the game works, and not due to PvP or anything to prevent the players from doing something nefarious.
     
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  17. SylenThunder

    SylenThunder Captain

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    I think it would just be nice to be able to set it as an option. Or to maybe have a flag in the config we can mod to allow it.
     
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  18. japp_02

    japp_02 Commander

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    Not sure the exact post was linked above, but here it is, you can warp when having shields on, the setup will cut the shields as long as you stand on the teleporter, and will turn shields back on once you leave the teleport platform (link Nr. 1 below). I got very confused because this is only useful when you want to teleport with shields ON which is rather unusual, the normal setup which doesn't involve any shields is to simply install a motion sensor that puts the teleporter off when you leave, and this is rather simple (link nr. 2, first part of the video). I hope this helps, greetings.

    Link Nr.1:
    https://empyriononline.com/threads/how-to-signals-setup-for-teleporters-shields.92661/

    Link Nr.2:
     
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  19. Furious Hellfire

    Furious Hellfire Rear Admiral

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    No engine limitation.
    Having to drop shields before warp, this was pushed by the pvp community so they would have a chance to kill a noob instantly when they first warp into a pvp system looking for precious resources.
    Else they could warp in, see they are under attack and warp out.

    Also to give attacker the opportunity to cripple the opponent ship in that moment he drops his shields to warp out.

    100%

    And tbh its a dick move and unrealistic but thats just me.

    We used to have a work around, drop shields hit K to warp then hit X right away before warp starts and shields would be on when you got to the other side :)

    That too was removed, so that hardcore 6 year veteran pvp players could jump noobs when they got to pvp space for first time.
    Ans also to ensure that you 100% take damage if you dare to visit pvp space or try to leave.
     
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  20. Furious Hellfire

    Furious Hellfire Rear Admiral

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    PvP players used to prey on noobs like that all the time and when shields got introduced they all started crying because they could not get an easy kill anymore.
     
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